Tweet Phantom - lost original ending

OK...ignorant I am.
What is the original ending? Is there a thread where it's been talked about in the past?

[Christopher Jacobs]

Well, there seem to have been several "original" endings, deleted and replaced with others after various preview screenings. The existing endings in the 1925 and 1929/30 cuts are also slightly different as I recall, I think with another garden scene between Mary Philbin and Norman Kerry in the original. Somewhere there are some long discussions of the differences between the 1925 and 1929/30 versions and may also be some details on the various filmed endings and other sequences that were abandoned (some stills survive, for example, showing the Phantom dead at his pipe organ).

The "original" ending depicted the Phantom releasing Christine and Raoul, after getting a kiss from the former. He sat down at the organ and died of a broken heart. As Christopher stated, there are a few stills showing the dead Phantom stretched backwards on the organ bench. Universal found the ending to be a bit blaaaaaah, so Edward Sedgwick shot the "carriage chase to the Seine" climax, which made it into the general release print.

The "original" ending depicted the Phantom releasing Christine and Raoul, after getting a kiss from the former. He sat down at the organ and died of a broken heart. As Christopher stated, there are a few stills showing the dead Phantom stretched backwards on the organ bench. Universal found the ending to be a bit blaaaaaah, so Edward Sedgwick shot the "carriage chase to the Seine" climax, which made it into the general release print.

I have to say, the present (Seine) ending is much more cinematic and satisfying, at least to a casual audience that doesn't care to analyze the psychology of the film but wants to enjoy a bang-up horror story. However, dying at the organ keyboard is much more in keeping with Chaney's previous oeuvre. And it gives yet another parallel between The Penalty and The Phantom of the Opera. Before learning of that ending, I already thought that the films were very similar, starting with overall story arc and having a disfigured and murderous main character who (at least in the original ending of Phantom) is good-hearted, if only way, way down.

The two films are even similar in the casual, patronizing attitude extended to women artists, who (it seems) can only succeed under male tutelage, but even then need to give up their artistic ambitions to find a proper role in marriage. I find this attitude much rarer in the films of the 1910s and 1920s than later on the the 30s through the 50s, and I wonder if it's because of the prevalence of women screenwriters and other successful cinema techs in the early days, who seemed to have dwindled as the industry became a bigger business.

The "original" ending depicted the Phantom releasing Christine and Raoul, after getting a kiss from the former. He sat down at the organ and died of a broken heart. As Christopher stated, there are a few stills showing the dead Phantom stretched backwards on the organ bench. Universal found the ending to be a bit blaaaaaah, so Edward Sedgwick shot the "carriage chase to the Seine" climax, which made it into the general release print.

Thanks for the info.

FWIW, here's a photo of the lost and decidedly blah ending:

Some like Moxie, some don't.

I've read the Leroux novel and it's a very flawed work. Most of the way through Erik is a monster who get a tinge of sympathy, but very near the end he starts getting weak and ill and for some reason loses his motivation and becomes sentimental ...and unintentionally comic. He actually thinks that when Christine marries him he;ll wear a mask out in public and no one will know! One of his last lines before dying is "All I wanted was a nice little wife who I could take out in the park on sundays"

This is barely acceptable in the novel- if it had been done in the movie it would have been laughed of the screen. I doubt that even Chaney could have made it work.

The ending in which Erik dies at the keyboard - is this lost? Does it exist in any format?

Having only heard about this for the first time, I find I'm almost overwhelmed by it. It's the only possible ending to the film, isn't it, Erik dying of a broken heart.

The ending in which Erik dies at the keyboard - is this lost? Does it exist in any format?

Having only heard about this for the first time, I find I'm almost overwhelmed by it. It's the only possible ending to the film, isn't it, Erik dying of a broken heart.

Nah. I think he could also lose his grip, make a desperate run for freedom, be stoned by a mob, and thrown into the Seine.

Some like Moxie, some don't.

I'm a bit mad for Moxie (in fact, they used the slogan "Mad About Moxie" in the 1950s), and ever since I spotted a Moxie sign in the Arbuckle/Keaton The Butcher Boy I've been on the lookout for their ubiquitous signs in other silent films, with little success. I really thought I'd spot one in Lonesome, Coney Island was lousy with Moxie ads, but most of the outdoor shots were too tight on the actors or the crowd to show much background. Phooey.

Some like Moxie, some don't.

I'm a bit mad for Moxie (in fact, they used the slogan "Mad About Moxie" in the 1950s), and ever since I spotted a Moxie sign in the Arbuckle/Keaton The Butcher Boy I've been on the lookout for their ubiquitous signs in other silent films, with little success. I really thought I'd spot one in Lonesome, Coney Island was lousy with Moxie ads, but most of the outdoor shots were too tight on the actors or the crowd to show much background. Phooey.

It wouldn't help matters any that none of the scenes were filmed in Coney Island - it was a Hollywood production. (Was Moxie popular in California?)

Some like Moxie, some don't.

I'm a bit mad for Moxie (in fact, they used the slogan "Mad About Moxie" in the 1950s), and ever since I spotted a Moxie sign in the Arbuckle/Keaton The Butcher Boy I've been on the lookout for their ubiquitous signs in other silent films, with little success. I really thought I'd spot one in Lonesome, Coney Island was lousy with Moxie ads, but most of the outdoor shots were too tight on the actors or the crowd to show much background. Phooey.

It wouldn't help matters any that none of the scenes were filmed in Coney Island - it was a Hollywood production. (Was Moxie popular in California?)

And would Moxie have been expected to pay for product placement if their ads were shown? When did paying for product placement start? I've had a couple of people assume that Gary Cooper's Hershey bar in Wings was a paid product placement, but I'm not quite that cynical -- a lot of doughboys ate Hershey bars, and it was probably a shout out to the soldiers in the audience who were looking for such authentic details. But I'm curious when paid product placement began (after the notable example of the Lumiere Brothers' beer-drinking film).

I must say that I like this version ( and the Leroux novel ) better than the romantic versions .

( and there's the Persian -- I really like the character, he adds the element of mystery that I like about the story ).

And would Moxie have been expected to pay for product placement if their ads were shown? When did paying for product placement start? I've had a couple of people assume that Gary Cooper's Hershey bar in Wings was a paid product placement, but I'm not quite that cynical -- a lot of doughboys ate Hershey bars, and it was probably a shout out to the soldiers in the audience who were looking for such authentic details. But I'm curious when paid product placement began (after the notable example of the Lumiere Brothers' beer-drinking film).

I don't think there was a product placement payment in those days (however, I have been wrong before). Looking at The Pharmacist, many items there are real and most stores you see in silents and through the '30s will have real packaging and real display ads. The strangest thing I've seen is the cash registers are usually old brass Nationals or, if (then) new electrics, Ohmers. I expect some studios got a deal on the Ohmers, and that may be the first product placement I can think of. They certainly show up more on film than they did in real life.

I like the way this thread has morphed into a discussion of Moxie!

Kickbacks go back to the 'teens, if not before. Harrison's Reports used to write about these regularly, and he'd mention that you should "get the scissors" in each of his reviews where some brand was featured prominently.

The Capitol sells Moxie, thanks to our distributor, the Despres Beverage Company of Massachusetts.

I knew that Jack would sniff out a discussion about PHANTOM and Moxie. I'm just surprised that it took so long for him to get here.

Kickbacks go back to the 'teens, if not before. Harrison's Reports used to write about these regularly, and he'd mention that you should "get the scissors" in each of his reviews where some brand was featured prominently.

The Capitol sells Moxie, thanks to our distributor, the Despres Beverage Company of Massachusetts.

Really? I guess that Moxie was a pioneer then. Their billboards show up prominently, but I thought it was just an East Coast thing.

Does that mean when the corn flakes are delivered to the Dunks in It's A Gift, that's a product placement? It's easy to see the brand.

P.S. Does anyone nowadays really drink Moxie, or do they just say they do in a fit of braggadocio? I bought a bottle from a store that stocks unusual soda brands, and well, I'd rather have an alcohol-free beer. Or store-brand cola. Or Shasta. Maybe even diet Clicquot Club soda (with the smiling Eskimo on the bottle cap), sweetened with cyclamates.

I haven't had Moxie, but I remember when I was a kid in France and offered some French kids some rare American root-beer I'd discovered. They were horrified by the taste. It may be something you get used to... I'd certainly give Moxie a try. Had some tamarind-pineapple drink at a Vietnamese lunch spot last week... a bit too sweet (like their iced coffee), but it was worth a try.

I'm not sure I have enough money and time left before going emeritus to get used to Moxie. It's really something you had to have grown up with. It's not as bad as would be a soda flavored with durian (I once slapped a piece out of someone's hand who thought it funny to induce me to smell it), but I had a difficult time slamming that last few ounces down.

I think the current end of "Phantom" stinks.

The whole film leads up to... an undercranked chase (with overtones of slapstick), with Chaney's make-up looking noticeably different from the rest of the film, and then a laughably fake-looking dummy being dumped in the studio pool... and THAT'S supposed to be better than an ending which would have reinforced the notion of the Phantom as a sympathetic human being...?

Sorry. That dumb-ass ending negated the whole point of the film, for me.

I'm not sure I have enough money and time left before going emeritus to get used to Moxie. It's really something you had to have grown up with. It's not as bad as would be a soda flavored with durian (I once slapped a piece out of someone's hand who thought it funny to induce me to smell it), but I had a difficult time slamming that last few ounces down.

There's always Cel-ray.

Wow, a Google search shows that it's undergoing a revival in cocktails, who knew?

greta

Rodney, Moxie originated in New England and people really do drink it here, but it's an acquired taste.

I'll bring a few cans to the Keaton festival later this month in Iola. See you there!

Rodney, Moxie originated in New England and people really do drink it here, but it's an acquired taste.

I was trying to find some information on the composer Norman Leigh (no luck, other than one guy who thinks he may be a pseudonym for Arthur Morse... but the same post thinks that Gaston Borch is a pseudonym for Max Winkler, which I'm quite sure is not true).

But I'm posting here, because I did find that Norman Leigh wrote a nice-looking onestep called Moxie!

It would seem he is right - he was basing it on a comment further up the thread that upon checking, the US Copyright entry does list Norman Leigh as a pseudonym for Morse as you can see below, I would assume this correct, also in a 1937 work on American music, the same statement is made.

The link below is awkward, so go to google books and look under Norman Leigh Morse and narrow your search to 1900 - 1950 and they'll be the first two or three citations.

Or search - Contributions to the art of music in America by the music industries of Boston, 1640 to 1936

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=ojJjAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA151&dq=norman+leigh+morse&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tipFUcXdJJXB4AOB7oDIDw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=norman%20leigh%20morse&f=false

I can't believe I missed the follow-up discussion of Moxie, that'll teach me to take a break from Nitrateville.

I have that piece of sheet music that was linked to earlier, there was also a jingle called Just Make It Moxie for Mine, and another called The Moxie Song that featured a very colourful piece of sheet music with the famed "Moxiemobile" on the cover, which was a fibreglass horse body affixed to an automobile chassis, with extended pedals and steering column so you could drive it from the saddle. One has been preserved, and shows up in parades around New England, including the annual Moxie Days celebrations in Maine.

The sheet music, and a shot of Lew Cody riding the Moxiemobile, are included in these Great Moments in Moxie.

[Mike Gebert]

Moxie' not that bad-- like Dr. Pepper crossed with cough syrup.

The really early Mad magazine, or one of the artists used to love sticking Moxie signs in the dense backgrounds. Probably for personal nostalgic reasons of a sort. I was delighted when I spotted one in the background of one of those Margaret Hamilton Maxwell House commercials... it was like Mad had come to life!