KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

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Eric Grayson

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KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 05, 2016 10:23 pm

Sorry, I just happen to be working on multiple projects with similar titles. This one is very cool (but then I don't work on projects that aren't cool). YES THIS WILL BE RESTORED TO FILM.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/16 ... nie-silent" target="_blank
Last edited by Eric Grayson on Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eric Grayson

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostTue Aug 09, 2016 4:32 pm

Several people have asked about DCP on this when finished. It should be possible. This project is in cooperation with the Library of Congress, so they have to sign off on it.

For poetry fans, this is the only time you'll ever see James Whitcomb Riley on camera. A cool picture, and the oldest surviving film with Colleen Moore in the lead. A big improvement over the dupe prints out there... this is all from 16mm kodascope ( and a little 35mm).

Eric
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WaverBoy

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 8:16 pm

Backed, at the Blu-ray level. Really excited for this one! More Moore is always a good thing. I'm surprised there's no replies to this post. You might want to put the word Kickstarter in the title of the original post, and ask the mods to make it a sticky.

Also, to avoid undesirable motion artifacts, I really hope you're going with 1080i for the Blu-ray instead of 1080p, as I'm presuming you'll be running this a bit slower than 24fps. Please please PLEASE with cream and sugar on it. :-)
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Mark Zimmer

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostTue Aug 16, 2016 10:52 am

Indeed---until I saw WaverBoy's post saying "Backed" I didn't realize this was a Kickstarter at all, and just thought it was a report on an ongoing restoration project. Some of us read posts quickly and miss things so it's better not to be shy about it.
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Gagman 66

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostTue Aug 16, 2016 11:01 pm

Eric,

:o Say, I need a mailing address so I can send you a check supporting the project. I haven't had Paypal in years. Getting nervous as time is running short. Hope to hear from you soon, if not hear, then on Facebook. Thanks.
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mwalls

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 18, 2016 7:14 am

I'm in. Not too many days left and a long way to go to reach the needed funding amount. Hoping for pledges to pick up significantly over the next week to help make this project a reality.

Matthew
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DavidWelling

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 18, 2016 7:35 am

I'm in too. Hope it meets the goal.
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Eric Grayson

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

I'm not sure what the speed will be yet. We've got a frame scan and I've been looking at it at 24, where it's not too bad. I'll leave the decision on speed to score-meister Ben Model.)

Sorry, I didn't put KICKSTARTER in the title. I don't post here much (I generally start arguments when I do, so I skip it.)

I will take your 1080i under advisement, but it will all depend on the mastering software we use. Sometimes they like to balk at the interlace option, although not always.

I hope this meets the goal too. I'd love to see this restored. Please help me spread the word if you can. I'm not the world's greatest marketing genius (in fact, I'm quite bad), so this is where you guys can help me!

Eric
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Eric Grayson

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 18, 2016 6:19 pm

Two points here:
1) If you'd like to donate and not use Kickstarter, I can work that out. I recommend you DO use Kickstarter... You do NOT have to have PayPal to do it. Kickstarter makes the whole world easier, but I realize that some of you have tech issues.
2) If you have a question, feel free to PM me... I'll do my best to answer.
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Dean Thompson

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 18, 2016 7:24 pm

I'm in as well. As noted earlier, this is an exciting project, and here are all best wishes that you'll meet your goal.
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WaverBoy

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Re: Little Orphant Annie (1918) restoration COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 19, 2016 7:03 pm

Eric Grayson wrote:I'm not sure what the speed will be yet. We've got a frame scan and I've been looking at it at 24, where it's not too bad. I'll leave the decision on speed to score-meister Ben Model.)

Sorry, I didn't put KICKSTARTER in the title. I don't post here much (I generally start arguments when I do, so I skip it.)

I will take your 1080i under advisement, but it will all depend on the mastering software we use. Sometimes they like to balk at the interlace option, although not always.

I hope this meets the goal too. I'd love to see this restored. Please help me spread the word if you can. I'm not the world's greatest marketing genius (in fact, I'm quite bad), so this is where you guys can help me!

Eric


If you do 24fps, we're good to go; if not, thank you for considering 1080i. Criterion's Blu of SAFETY LAST! was done that way, and it looks smashing in motion.

And, I just posted your Kickstarter link along with a heartfelt plea to some silent film FB groups, including my own. :)
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WaverBoy

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostSun Aug 21, 2016 4:59 pm

We're past the halfway mark now! $5,320 out of $10,000, 128 backers, when a couple of days ago it was around $4,300 and only 111 backers. That's a grand in two days. Marketing is your friend!
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Rick Lanham

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostSun Aug 21, 2016 10:12 pm

Colleen Moore on blu-ray? I'm in.

Rick
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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostTue Aug 23, 2016 11:54 am

I'm in! Hope the goal is met!

eric
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BenModel

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostTue Aug 23, 2016 2:05 pm

Best way to help, besides pledging, is to post the link wherever it is that you share things like that. If you've pledged but haven't done so already, post a link (FB, Twitter, etc) to let the folks who know you know how they can help Colleen (and Eric) out. Or for any of the Kickstarters currently running or coming down the pike.

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostTue Aug 23, 2016 10:04 pm

BenModel wrote:Best way to help, besides pledging, is to post the link wherever it is that you share things like that. If you've pledged but haven't done so already, post a link (FB, Twitter, etc) to let the folks who know you know how they can help Colleen (and Eric) out. Or for any of the Kickstarters currently running or coming down the pike.

Ben


Yes, everybody post away, so we can all soon be watching this on Blu-ray with a Ben Model score.
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Gagman 66

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostWed Aug 24, 2016 4:56 pm

:? Still a long ways to go with just 11 days remaining. I mailed my contribution on Monday.
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Eric Grayson

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Got your contribution, which I will return if we don't make the goal.

I'm hoping this gets some sort of traction before it ends. We're over 60% but I'm not getting a lot of enthusiasm. Marketing geniuses, what do you suggest?
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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 8:10 pm

Eric Grayson wrote:Got your contribution, which I will return if we don't make the goal.

I'm hoping this gets some sort of traction before it ends. We're over 60% but I'm not getting a lot of enthusiasm. Marketing geniuses, what do you suggest?


I pledged, but sorry to say my gut reaction was that your goal was too high. But that's just my opinion.
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Eric Grayson

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 8:31 pm

I tried to explain that in the video. Let me explain for those who are reading:

This is a colossal amount of work. Some of these films are pretty simple to restore. In this case, we're sifting through three different prints. I'm going to have to pay people to do much of this work. They don't work for free.

It's also going to be de-noised by hand, one frame at a time, instead of the automated junk that a lot of places do. That way, moving hands and eyeballs don't disappear from frame to frame! I'm not asking for this for ME; I've got three people standing by waiting to start on it. Really. But they eat, and so do I (some of it will be for me, and a lot goes to the lab.)

This is a high-quality film-level restoration, not just a quick-and-dirty get-it-out-there-on-video sort of thing. I'd like to do more of these with other rare and in-trouble titles.

I can go through the budget line-item if you'd like, but it's not a cash-grab, I ASSURE YOU. In fact, when I outlined it, several people asked me, "Are you asking for enough? This looks like too much work for $10K."

Eric
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JFK

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Be Warned:The Goblns'll git you Ef you Don't Pledge Now

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 9:33 pm

I don't know how this project escaped my notice.
I'll pledge for a blu-ray tomorrow morning,
as should all other goblin-fearing Nitratevillians
(""the Gobble-uns'll git you Ef you Don't Watch Out!"")


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Tommy Stathes

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 11:34 pm

drednm wrote:I pledged, but sorry to say my gut reaction was that your goal was too high. But that's just my opinion.


Knowing a bit about the back story here and having produced projects like this myself, I realize it may be difficult for others to understand the real costs involved in high quality and well-produced projects (i.e. 2K scans followed by extensive digital restoration work) with multiple talents and contributors playing a part.

This is actually on the low end for a feature film, even though it's technically doable for this amount. The studios spend upwards of six or seven figures on some of the biggest projects, to put things into perspective. Doing a film-out (printing the digital restoration to a new archival FILM print for film presentations and long-term archiving/preservation--not simply producing files and Blu-rays) indeed costs thousands, as does commissioning a brand new score from notable musical talents. In cases like this, where some of the scanning and restoration work has already been performed, perhaps the parties responsible need to recoup those losses in order to continue on with the project. Stabilizing and dust-busting and manual clean up alone will take many hours of paid labor...

In short, as someone who is also responsible for producing projects like this, I feel it's important to defend others seeking considerable funding amounts. Projects that are put out for less $ often do not utilize scans with comparable resolution levels, or feature laborious image stabilization and manual clean-up. Additionally, not everyone doing this work has an alternate income stream such as a paycheck coming in every couple of weeks from a traditional place of employment, or steady & well-paying freelance gigs, and they need to eat and pay bills while doing all this valuable work. That must be factored in as well. :idea:
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drednm

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 4:28 am

I wasn't doubting the total needed, I just thought it was too high for a Kickstarter project. At $25 a pledge, that requires 400 people. That's a lot, especially when a Kickstarter project is all or nothing. Other crowdfunding sites allow you to keep whatever is pledged. Even Ben Model's hugely successful Marion Davies project got 317 backers. My five campaigns have attracted between 82 and 159 backers. 400 is an awful lot.

As I said, I backed your campaign and re-posted the campaign at other sites. It's a great project.
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Eric Grayson

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 7:29 am

I knew it was ambitious when we started, but I was hoping for some good support, and it still may be there.

I actually LIKE this process on Kickstarter, because in this way if I don't raise the money, then I'm not on the hook to do anything. I budgeted this tightly, and if we raise $2000 under, say, then we wouldn't have enough to do it properly.

This is a new thing, something we couldn't even do 2-3 years ago, and there are levels of bad prints that can be restored. This one is pretty far out there in terms of the rattiness of the prints (very splicy).

Eric
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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 8:24 am

I challenge everyone on Nitrateville who has pledged to double their contribution. I just did. This project means the difference between an important film surviving in a careful restoration, or just surviving in bad 16mm dupes.
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Tommy Stathes

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 8:57 am

drednm wrote:I wasn't doubting the total needed, I just thought it was too high for a Kickstarter project. At $25 a pledge, that requires 400 people. That's a lot, especially when a Kickstarter project is all or nothing. Other crowdfunding sites allow you to keep whatever is pledged. Even Ben Model's hugely successful Marion Davies project got 317 backers. My five campaigns have attracted between 82 and 159 backers. 400 is an awful lot.

As I said, I backed your campaign and re-posted the campaign at other sites. It's a great project.


I think there's a trade-off depending on which site is used. With Kickstarter, the most popular one, a lot of funding comes from internal users browsing projects, and people are generally more excited by the all-or-nothing aspect of KS. I think that's why some of them are more often successful. My Bray Blu-ray/DVD KS campaign last year, with funds raised toward a stretch goal for a second release, ran for 40 days and went over $15k thanks to 280 backers. My current Indiegogo, although a flex funding campaign that will let me keep whatever I raise, is hanging at roughly 50% of the goal ($6k) after 30 days. It's for a more obscure type of project but I think people are less likely to help fund on the non-KS platforms for projects like this. I've seen barely a dime from people searching for projects within the site, unlike KS.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that these campaigns can't/shouldn't rely on being funded solely by the most basic pledges (i.e. $25 a pop). That's where having pre-existing products to offer as additional perks, for higher reward levels combining various items, really helps...
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Eric Grayson

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 9:03 am

Full disclosure:

I helped restore some films on Tommy's last DVD set.

Tommy will be helping on Little Orphant Annie.

It's a community. We help each other out.

Eric
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Richard Warner

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 10:22 am

pathe16mm wrote:I challenge everyone on Nitrateville who has pledged to double their contribution. I just did. This project means the difference between an important film surviving in a careful restoration, or just surviving in bad 16mm dupes.

Challenge accepted and doubled mine! Good idea!
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drednm

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 11:39 am

Tommy Stathes wrote:
drednm wrote:I wasn't doubting the total needed, I just thought it was too high for a Kickstarter project. At $25 a pledge, that requires 400 people. That's a lot, especially when a Kickstarter project is all or nothing. Other crowdfunding sites allow you to keep whatever is pledged. Even Ben Model's hugely successful Marion Davies project got 317 backers. My five campaigns have attracted between 82 and 159 backers. 400 is an awful lot.

As I said, I backed your campaign and re-posted the campaign at other sites. It's a great project.


I think there's a trade-off depending on which site is used. With Kickstarter, the most popular one, a lot of funding comes from internal users browsing projects, and people are generally more excited by the all-or-nothing aspect of KS. I think that's why some of them are more often successful. My Bray Blu-ray/DVD KS campaign last year, with funds raised toward a stretch goal for a second release, ran for 40 days and went over $15k thanks to 280 backers. My current Indiegogo, although a flex funding campaign that will let me keep whatever I raise, is hanging at roughly 50% of the goal ($6k) after 30 days. It's for a more obscure type of project but I think people are less likely to help fund on the non-KS platforms for projects like this. I've seen barely a dime from people searching for projects within the site, unlike KS.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that these campaigns can't/shouldn't rely on being funded solely by the most basic pledges (i.e. $25 a pop). That's where having pre-existing products to offer as additional perks, for higher reward levels combining various items, really helps...


Well I'm in awe of any of these crowdfunding sites that help preserve, restore, save films. I sure as hell never saw myself using crowdfunding to fund anything, let alone film projects, three of which have sold to TCM.

Good idea about adding additional perks.
Ed Lorusso
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Rick Lanham

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Re: KICKSTARTER: Little Orphant Annie (1918) COLLEEN MOORE

PostFri Aug 26, 2016 3:59 pm

I've bumped up my pledge. If most supporters do this, the project can go ahead.

Rick
“The past is never dead. It's not even past” - Faulkner.
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