Tweet How many lost short subjects from the 1930s?

We've sometimes talked about the lost or missing features of the first decade of sound, but there are also at least some, and probably a good many, short films (including cartoons) from that time that are unaccounted for.

What started me wondering about this topic is the fact that several Oswald cartoons are cited on Wikipedia as being lost, including all six from 1938. Some MGM and most Warners subjects in 2-colour Technicolor are lost up to 1934, and I think one Bing Crosby 2-reeler from 1934 is missing its second reel. How many short films from the 30s would our experts in the field estimate to be lost, if such a guess is even possible? Are there any missing from the 40s or 50s?

-HA

We've sometimes talked about the lost or missing features of the first decade of sound, but there are also at least some, and probably a good many, short films (including cartoons) from that time that are unaccounted for.

What started me wondering about this topic is the fact that several Oswald cartoons are cited on Wikipedia as being lost, including all six from 1938. Some MGM and most Warners subjects in 2-colour Technicolor are lost up to 1934, and I think one Bing Crosby 2-reeler from 1934 is missing its second reel. How many short films from the 30s would our experts in the field estimate to be lost, if such a guess is even possible? Are there any missing from the 40s or 50s?

-HA

It might be hard to figure, because so many short films of the 30's and 40's, even by the major studios, sit in studio vaults and have not been reissued or put in any general distribution in decades. Universal had been making a few new prints of some of their early 30's shorts like HELLO NAPOLEON (1931) with Lloyd Hamilton or various episodes of their early SHADOW series, but how many do they no longer have any sort of preservation material on? There are still a few hard to see Columbia titles, and we recently discussed here NTA's purchase of the Paramount shorts in the fifties may have had the positive effect of actually preserving a number of those titles.

As far as independent or smaller studio shorts, which there were many, there's probably quite a few missing. There's a number of early serials also that have seemingly dissapeared. The Harry Langdon Talkie Shorts that Arvid Gillstrom released through Paramount in 1933-34 are also currently considered missing. RKO-Pathe's short films are no longer owned by whomever owns RKO's features, and I believe there's some question as to where the original materials to those shorts are today.

In short, there are probably quite a few missing short films, certainly from the 1930's, but also from the 40's and 50's as well.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Richard M Roberts
Universal had been making a few new prints of some of their early 30's shorts like HELLO NAPOLEON (1931) with Lloyd Hamilton

Do they do anything with it?

Richard M Roberts
Universal had been making a few new prints of some of their early 30's shorts like HELLO NAPOLEON (1931) with Lloyd Hamilton

Do they do anything with it?

It was run at a Film Festival or two, but I wouldn't hold your breath for a special DVD release.


RICHARD M ROBERTS (who'd be happy with a video-on-demand release of MODERN LOVE)

A few months ago, I was in contact with a higher-up from Sony, which strangely neglected to include NOT GUILTY ENOUGH ('38 Andy Clyde Columbia short w/ Shemp) or CUCKOORANCHO ('38 Columbia short w/ Besser) on their "rare treasures" set earlier this year.

Turns out, there was a reason why not:

"We would have loved to include them, but we did not have any material. Nor did the Library of Congress or other archives we contacted. We also went out to collectors trying to find prints."

Other examples - HELLO, POP (Healy w/ Stooges from 33), JAILBIRDS OF PARADISE (Moe and Curly, 1934). Both of those are MGM titles.

Universal had been making a few new prints of some of their early 30's shorts like HELLO NAPOLEON (1931) with Lloyd Hamilton or various episodes of their early SHADOW series, but how many do they no longer have any sort of preservation material on?

There's a number of early serials also that have seemingly disappeared.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

A few of the SHADOW shorts are out on DVD via Sinister Cinema. And at least three of the missing early sound serials (CLANCY OF THE MOUNTED, JADE BOX, and DETECTIVE LLOYD) do exist in either private collections or archives.

So many important and tragically lost shorts mentioned so far here. But all of the MGM "Dogville" shorts are extant and readily available...it ain't fair!

Judith Anderson made her film debut in a one-reeler melodrama from Vitaphone in 1930 simply titled JUDITH ANDERSON, cashing in on her Broadway fame. This movie appears to be lost; it's not even listed on IMDb although it was reviewed in Variety.

Too many Clark & McCullough shorts are apparently lost: Late 1920's Fox shorts and early 1930's RKO Radio shorts.

Re: Richard Finnegan's comment about survival of the MGM "Dogville" series.
This is actually a nice compliment to the management of MGM back in the early days of safety film. They copied EVERYTHING, regardless of what was thought of it, from nitrate, and stored it properly.
Consequently, almost all of the MGM library since the beginning of the sound era , whether it be features, shorts, cartoons, trailers, color or B&W, etc. survives.
The same applies to Warner Bros., thanks to the LIbrary of Congress.

Re: Richard Finegan's comment about survival of the MGM "Dogville" series.
This is actually a nice compliment to the management of MGM back in the early days of safety film. They copied EVERYTHING, regardless of what was thought of it, from nitrate, and stored it properly.
Consequently, almost all of the MGM library since the beginning of the sound era , whether it be features, shorts, cartoons, trailers, color or B&W, etc. survives.
The same applies to Warner Bros., thanks to the LIbrary of Congress.

Richard,
Thanks for the info.
Of course, I wasn't really suggesting that I wish the Dogville shorts were lost! Just sort of jumping on the bandwagon of several people I know who like to criticize them.
Sure, those shorts are fascinating and have their certain "charm" (if that's the word!) and I do very much appreciate the fact that they are extant and all the good work done to keep them that way.

If these aren't "lost," they're in "hiding" -

Ed Watz posted this in 2008 at silentcomdians:

The following Paramount talkies are in hiding:
- Marriage Humor (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1933)
- On Ice (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1933)
- A Roaming Romeo (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1933)
- Circus Hoodoo (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1934)
- Petting Preferred (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1934)

The last thing I had been able to track down on these was that the 35mm elements were transferred by Paramount to the Bonded Services film storage facility in Fort Lee, NJ, in the mid-1950s. When National Telefilm bought the television rights to the Paramount talkie shorts, NTA discovered there was a rights clearance issue: the late Arvid E. Gillstrom's estate retained ownership, not Paramount. I don't know if NTA next held these Langdons, junked them, or returned them to Paramount, but they are not listed on Bonded's inventory roster. Around 1978 Dick Bann told Raymond Rohauer in my presence that he knew where the 35mm elements resided on a similarly long-missing Gillstrom-Paramount short featuring Bing Crosby & Vernon Dent, PLEASE (released in 1934). So it's possible that someone is sitting on the Gillstrom-Paramount Langdons...

If these aren't "lost," they're in "hiding" -

The following Paramount talkies are in hiding:
- Marriage Humor (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1933)
- On Ice (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1933)
- A Roaming Romeo (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1933)
- Circus Hoodoo (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1934)
- Petting Preferred (Gillstrom for Paramount, 1934)

These are the Arvid Gillstrom - Paramount Harry Langdon shorts that Richard Roberts mentioned in an earlier post.

In addition to those and the already-mentioned Bing Crosby shorts there were two Leon Errol shorts (1933-34) in that group that are also still "in hiding". Anyone seen anything on those?

Lost, or at least very well hidden is the Burns & Allen Paramount one-reel short PATENTS PENDING (8-5-32).
It's the 8th of George & Gracie's 11 Paramount starring one-reelers and is conspicuously absent from most listings, going back as far as Leonard Maltin's "Comedy Teams" book in the 1970's. The short is also apparently unknown to the IMDb. Also, it's the only one of Burns & Allen's Paramount one-reelers missing from a listing I have of "NTA - Famous Films: Programs for Television" from the 1950's.

It looks like a good one (at least I can read it - having the continuity script) but it sure would be nice to see it.

Anyone ever seen it or know anything about why it's so rare?

OK, these are mostly late 20's, not 30's, but does anyone know if these Robert Benchley shorts still exist?

The Spellbinder 1928
Furnace Trouble 1929
Lesson Number One 1929
Stewed, Fried and Boiled 1929
Your Technocracy and Mine 1933

I've never seen any of these show up anywhere.