Tweet Phantom Of The Opera Ultimate Edition DVD now Out of Print

The most obvious issue is that the stereo scores somehow ended up in mono.

David Shepard

Deep Discount is shipping this one today.

Hope it's the stereo version.

Deep Discount is shipping this one today.

Hope it's the stereo version.

Mine is listed as shipped as well.

So Mr. Shepard, are there any other differences besides the mono, or should we send this unopened some place for a switch, or what?

Anybody already watched this HD tranfer and would like to talk about ?

[silentfilm]

It wasn't supposed to come out until November 1st, and due to pressing issues may be out a little later.

The corrected version hasn't been pressed yet. If you receive the original pressing, there is much about it to enjoy. There will be a way to trade-in for the new one when copies are actually available.

David S

The corrected version hasn't been pressed yet. If you receive the original pressing, there is much about it to enjoy. There will be a way to trade-in for the new one when copies are actually available.

David S

So it would be OK to open it and enjoy it for awhile before the exchange? That's cool. Thanks David.

I was thinking about the masked Ball scenes... The first part as we see in the DVD, that is before the scene of the Phantom in paintred red cape listening to the talk of Raul and Christine, it's original 2 color technicolor footage found by David Shepard.

But the second part, after the red cape Phantom listening, it's digitaly colorized footage, since this second part was not found in color footage. They colorize trying to follow the color set and color characters of the 2 color technicolorm footage. It was Photoplay, If I remaber well, who ask a colorization company to colorize this segment.

I'm curious if thi Blu Ray will use onle the 2 color technicolor footage that Shepard found many years ago, or if will also use the colorized masked ball .
Specially cause I'm not sure if the computer colorization was made in HD, since it was made almost 10 years ago.

All Darc: the Bal Masque is in Technicolor, remastered from 35mm, it looks amazing. The cape on the roof and the "intolerable heat" sequences are hand colored, to simulate Handschiegl; no computer coloring was used.

DS

Happy to say that I received mine today! After a quick glimpse through the movie, I noticed another hand colored scene with the rat catcher's face. Really great to see these hand-colored sequences.

any screenshots

Deep Discount is shipping this one today.

Hope it's the stereo version.

I've noticed Deep Discount ships a lot of titles very early. I'm tempted to order through them just to get it early, but I guess I'll hold out since I've had it preordered with Amazon since day 1. Not sure if saving a $1.50 is worth it. With the recent releases of Criterion's 'The Phantom Carriage' and 'Island of Lost Souls' this is a great year for Halloween movies!!

The corrected version hasn't been pressed yet. If you receive the original pressing, there is much about it to enjoy. There will be a way to trade-in for the new one when copies are actually available.

David S

Who would we contact to get the corrected disc? I'm really looking forward to this release, but I've had my dealings with Image before with their first release of Twilight Zone. It was next to impossible to get a contact let alone convince them there was a issue. I really don't want to cancel my order and have to wait.

Hi David.

I know that was you who found a original technicolor print for the Masked Ball, and it was used in the special restoration of the 1929 version.
But accordinf a article mentioning Photoplay restoration work, the masked ball original technicolor scenes found by you was not complete, and they used computer colorization to colorize B&W footage corresponding to the missing portion of the masked ball.

The scenes from masked ball, from Photoplay restoration, looks very real for the true technicolor footage you found. But the scenes that was colorized do not look very real, and lacks the few red color cast oscilation, result of flickering of the film development process used in the 20's, and the dirt spots looks white, while in the true technicolor the dirt looks red or green.

What I mean, when I said after the roof scene, of Phantom in red cape, it' s about the masked ball scenes after this one, the second portion of the masked ball. I know the Phantom on rooof was originaly a hand colored process since the original theatrical run.

Page 6--Restoratrion notes : http://www.milestonefilms.com/pdf/Phantompk.pdf" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

So I presume that this new HD restoration do not used computer coloriztion to the second part of the masked Ball, that survived only in B&W
After all the colorization of the second part of maked ball, from the DVD edition, do not look realistic as the original 2 color technicolor footage of the first segment of the masked ball.

All Darc: the Bal Masque is in Technicolor, remastered from 35mm, it looks amazing. The cape on the roof and the "intolerable heat" sequences are hand colored, to simulate Handschiegl; no computer coloring was used.

DS

In short, no, David's new edition doesn't use the Brownlow Technicolor restoration of the post-rooftop masked ball sequence.

Well, it's a decision that has base, since the true colors was not restored, despite the good intention of the Photoplay restoration by colorization.
But it could be available as a extra fopr the Blu Ray.

The B&W scenes that was colorized, trying to restore the original technicolor for the post roof scene of masked ball, was not the same shot of the technicolor, but originally shot in B&W. Look the scene of Cristine in the staircase with Raoul, and the phantom moving on the lower corridor. There is a scene of the same suposed place, for the first segment and the second segment of the masked ball, and if you loook in the lateral wall, the detail on wall is not present in the colorized segment (when a man points the direction).

Similar to the case of The Black Pirate, that have a B&W version, shot in B&W, and not a B&W copy of the technicolor negative.
I presume it was not possible to make good and affordable B&W copy from the t2 color technicolor ecnicolor negative. First because the technicolor had two color matrix in one single film strip, and second because the technicolor negative would not look as sharp as a standart camera negative, since it use prisms and color fiulter that reduce sharpness.

So the B&W colorized footagwe, even if colorization technology was already perfect, would not look as the original technicolor, since it was not the same shot. And in this different shot they probably used different lighting, diferent filter to get a intentional B&W contrast etc.

Well, I think this explain why David opted to use only the original 2 color technicoor footage, and not the Brownlow colorized fotage of the second segment of masked ball.


Reiew of the wrong Blu Ray press ???

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Phant ... creenshots" target="_blank

In short, no, David's new edition doesn't use the Brownlow Technicolor restoration of the post-rooftop masked ball sequence.

The Phantom never looked this good !!!

I'm curiopus about this new print David used to this HD transfer... Where he found it ???

The information we had was that the only good source for the Phantom was a print shot from the camera negative alternate takes from the 1929 version.

Is that the same source ???? Looks too good to be the same, considering the DVD had much softness and little sharpness.

David, what witchcraft you did to get this good image ???


http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... osition=15" target="_blank

"(I have emails and phone calls into various sources to find out if the interlaced presentation of this version is one of the technical issues with the first pressing of the BD which David Shepard has mentioned publicly)."

Blu ray . com

So the new press can look even better.

Other mistakes from the first press:

Different color tint intensity from one frame rate to another frame rate version:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... osition=12" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... position=3" target="_blank" target="_blank

Few saturation difference for the technicolor sequence, comparinf one frame rate version to another:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... osition=14" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... position=7" target="_blank" target="_blank


"The 24fps version offers superior clarity and sharpness, within reasonable expectations. The 20fps 1929 version is a rather major step downward in quality, at least in terms of damage. This version has considerably more wear and tear, with many more scratches, flecks and specks dotting the image with fair regularity. It still has some nicely sharp moments and those who prefer 20fps for their silents will most likely not be too disappointed."
Blu Ray.com

I supose this above was another mistake from the first press too, since there is no reason to used the digital file before finish digital clean up for the 20fps, and use the cleaner finished digital file for the 24fps, since both came from the same 35mm print.

Anyawy, the wrong press edition already look very good, even for the audio in mono, according review.

The right press will be certainly a great edition !!

The Photoplay edition is totally different than what David Shepard has been doing. Think of Shepard as the source for the 1997 DVD and Photoplay as the source for the Ultimate Edition. The Photoplay will be on Blu Ray through Milestone in a few months, so there will be two blus to pick from.

My copy arrived today. I will post a few thoughts after I see it later this weekend.

Sorry if my question it's not appropriated, but ...

Why Shepard and Brownlow don't work together for this film ?

They have a great respect one for each other.

The Photoplay edition is totally different than what David Shepard has been doing. Think of Shepard as the source for the 1997 DVD and Photoplay as the source for the Ultimate Edition. The Photoplay will be on Blu Ray through Milestone in a few months, so there will be two blus to pick from.

My copy arrived today. I will post a few thoughts after I see it later this weekend.

I have no answer for that; Mr. Shepard would be the one to ask but I suspect that's not a good topic for public consumption.

Watched the first half of the 24fps version, up until the end of the Bal Masque section. My 8 year old along with me. I was dismayed to have her burst into laughter at the unmasking scene; to her, he just looked funny. Up closer, ugly -- but not scary. I wonder if the effect is lost forever to the younger generations. Meanwhile, the image is crisp and better than I can remember seeing it.

I don't get the BluRay review quoted above, about the 20 fps being interlaced. I thought it was impossible to do 1080p with less than 24fps, because of blu ray standards, and that would be why interlacing was required? Yet the review made it sound like that was a mistake.

Other mistakes from the first press:

Different color tint intensity from one frame rate to another frame rate version:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... osition=12" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... position=3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

If the colors my computer are reproducing are accurate, I sure hope they tone down the tinting on that one transfer. One of the transfers looks sepia toned... fine, but the other is GLOWING orange...!

Watched the first half of the 24fps version, up until the end of the Bal Masque section. My 8 year old along with me. I was dismayed to have her burst into laughter at the unmasking scene; to her, he just looked funny. Up closer, ugly -- but not scary. I wonder if the effect is lost forever to the younger generations.

I noticed the same effect when The Phantom of the Opera was shown in Forssa Silent Film Festival 2006. Many people told afterwards that the unmasking scene was funny, almost laughable. The movie itself was quite good, “like a Bruckheimer of the 20’s” (like one described).

I don't get the BluRay review quoted above, about the 20 fps being interlaced. I thought it was impossible to do 1080p with less than 24fps, because of blu ray standards, and that would be why interlacing was required? Yet the review made it sound like that was a mistake.

Without getting too technical to my knowledge it can't be done without adding duplicate frames or altering the speed and would require pulldown to be shown properly on any HDTV.

Watched the first half of the 24fps version, up until the end of the Bal Masque section. My 8 year old along with me. I was dismayed to have her burst into laughter at the unmasking scene; to her, he just looked funny. Up closer, ugly -- but not scary. I wonder if the effect is lost forever to the younger generations.

I noticed the same effect when The Phantom of the Opera was shown in Forssa Silent Film Festival 2006. Many people told afterwards that the unmasking scene was funny, almost laughable. The movie itself was quite good, “like a Bruckheimer of the 20’s” (like one described).

I hate to say it, but that's usually a product of priming the audience the wrong way. Not that either of these screenings might have done this, but I've seen advertising for PHANTOM and other films where the slant was a campy one, and the Phantom's face prominently displayed on all of the material. Other screenings (without trying to be braggadocios, mine included), play it up as a horror classic, even though perhaps that's not exactly correct, either, and get a more traditional response to the film.

About all I did to prime my daughter was to tell her before the unmasking that it was considered one of the greatest "scary scenes" of all time. She'd not seen any pictures beforehand and was completely unprepared for the phantom's look. And she was actually enthusiastic about seeing "Phantom of the Opera" as she'd heard all about it.

Well, even the audience of 20's laugh about the carriage scene from Nosferatu, probably because they remamber about some Keystone Cops short.

And consider that Today kids see many repulsive things on magazines, internet, like decaptated heads, and some carttons even make fun of a character losting a limb and bleeding. Kids are different today...
The unmask scene probably remambered a cartton scene to the girls...

Even from 80's and early 90's there was not so much explicity violence. The effects became to graphic for "blood ugly things"

Frankenstein in 1931 scary just by the few sound of he walking, before appear to the doctor's guest.

Particulary, I think one of the most scarring things today it's Discovery Channel, when a "surving routine" program showed a guy eating very large larves that explode in his mouth , and eating dead cammel meat, drinking semi-digesdted liquid from the cammel intestine near stomach. And also other guy in other "surviving routine" thing, when he was without water, with insolation, and his partiner wife hydrated hin with dirt water by making a enema using a gasoline hose.

Well, we try to keep her from that sort of fare, and when she was five she was freaked completely out by Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein, but somehow in the last 3 years, something like Lon Chaney became no big deal. She didn't seem BORED, but laughter was not the reaction I was expecting at that moment....

The Phantom of the Opera is today's (Oct. 31) offering on Trailers From Hell, with commentary by Bernard "Candyman" Rose:

http://www.trailersfromhell.com/trailers/773/comments

If the colors my computer are reproducing are accurate, I sure hope they tone down the tinting on that one transfer. One of the transfers looks sepia toned... fine, but the other is GLOWING orange...!

[/quote]

Doug Sulpy,

Thank you for purchasing the Blu-Ray POTO. I forwarded your comments to the editor (now freelance, but he was the supervising editor at Image Entertainment for 20 years and we worked together on many dozens of projects), and here is his response:

"The telecine was black and white except for the two color sequences. The tints were added by me and I used the same settings for both versions. I'm looking at them right now and when I compare sepia, green and blue sequences I see no difference. All the work was done on a professional Sony monitor like we used at Image.

I don't know if this is a factor, but whoever sent the email is using a computer monitor to evaluate, not a video monitor. I have no idea how his monitor color is setup, so I don't know what he's seeing. Again, I don't have the disc to check so I'm just making an educated guess. But I don't see a difference"

Incidentally, the choice of colors came from Universal's original cutting continuity.

David Shepard

David, even on TV these colors would look way too satured, by comparison, since TV and monitor don't have such difference to this point. If on monitor the images looks different one to each other, the same will happen on TV :

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... osition=12" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screensho ... position=3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I don't understand why the 20fps have much more speckles and scratches than the 24fps. Both should came from the same tranfer with digital restoration clean up, like converting the progressive 24fps to 20fps.
The images above also have geometry differences.

Please forgive me to say that, but it's a good idea to you check it again, since they already created trouble for you in the first pressing.

Maybe it's better to get the master HD file in 24fps and convert it to 20fps.