Tweet The Man With Harpo

The film clip on this Marx Brothers website was part of Emily Leider's December Hollywood Heritage presentation on Myrna Loy. The website has ID'd the man with Harpo as Ben Bernie, but he doesn't look at all like the photos of Ben Bernie I can find on the web. When the clip flashed by at HH I jumped in my chair and squeaked: "That's Joe Schenck!" (Didn't recognize Harpo until later!) Greta and I caucused and we both think it's one of the Schencks, but now I think it's more likely to be Nick Schenck rather than Joe...can anyone confirm? or if not either Schenck, who is it?
http://www.marx-brothers.org/biography/harposp.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

The Schenck brothers sure weren't camera whores, I cannot think of any other piece of film where one of them appeared, nor are there a lot of photos of them floating around, and as far as I know, Joe Schenck was interviewed only once in his life, for Liberty Magazine in 1940. Or are there more interviews out there?

Can't help ya, but I never saw that footage before!

It's definitely a Schenck. It looks more like Joe to me, but it's more likely to be Nicholas, since he was the MGM/Loew's executive.

It's definitely a Schenck. It looks more like Joe to me, but it's more likely to be Nicholas, since he was the MGM/Loew's executive.

Joe was my original call, too, but from the few photos I've found the Schenck brothers looked uncannily similar. According to Neil Gabler in An Empire of Their Own: How the Jews Invented Hollywood, Nick spoke with an accent all his life, Joe lost his. This man has an accent.

Of course, there is no reason why Joe couldn't have gone to the Ziegfeld premier, I suppose.

It's Nick (in my opinion).

It's Nick (in my opinion).

Let us then go with Nick Schenck. Or (if we're feeling a tad on the mischievous side) Bess Flowers in a really successful costume.

Although I like the Bess Flowers idea, let's think about this a second. It appears to be from the mid to late 30s. At that time, Joe was connected to Fox, and Nick to MGM. Harpo was working for MGM at the time. That's why I'm guessing Nick.

Although I like the Bess Flowers idea, let's think about this a second. It appears to be from the mid to late 30s. At that time, Joe was connected to Fox, and Nick to MGM. Harpo was working for MGM at the time. That's why I'm guessing Nick.

That was my reasoning, too, but even though the film gives the impression that Schenck/Flowers and Harpo are together that isn't necessarily the case; they could have arrived separately but stepped up to the mike at the same time. If it is Nick, I'll bet Mayer wasn't too happy about that "I hope it's a good picture" remark, which was the antithesis of MGM ballyhoo.

I think Nick was headquartered in NY so maybe this was the NY premiere of one of their MGM films.

Plus, I just googled WHN Radio and it was in NY.

I think Nick was headquartered in NY so maybe this was the NY premiere of one of their MGM films.

Plus, I just googled WHN Radio and it was in NY.

Yes, it's definitely the NY premier of The Great Ziegfeld. I'm going with Nick unless someone has a firmer Joe ID. Begrudgingly, because part of me is in loooooove with the Bess Flowers idea. Think of the fun we could have with the imdb.

Bess Flowers? That's ridiculous.
It's definitely Cyril Ring.

Bess Flowers? That's ridiculous.
It's definitely Cyril Ring.

IS NOT!

Love me some Cyril Ring.....but I have to side with Fred. Definately Bess Flowers.

Can't help ya, but I never saw that footage before!

I saw (and recorded) that back in the early 1990's when Leonard Maltin showed it during one of his "Entertainment Tonight" segments. I used to tune in to that show on the nights when I knew Leonard would be on and often he'd cover interesting subjects and show rare clips such as that "Great Ziegfeld" premiere clip.

I recall that at the time, among Marx Brothers fans that was a pretty exciting find and I remember making video copies for several friends...but I didn't know you then!

Can't help ya, but I never saw that footage before!

I saw (and recorded) that back in the early 1990's when Leonard Maltin showed it during one of his "Entertainment Tonight" segments. I used to tune in to that show on the nights when I knew Leonard would be on and often he'd cover interesting subjects and show rare clips such as that "Great Ziegfeld" premiere clip.

I recall that at the time, among Marx Brothers fans that was a pretty exciting find and I remember making video copies for several friends...but I didn't know you then!

I had a short conversation with another Marxist last night, and he believes the person was Joe rather than Nick, so once again we're in the Land O'Mystery. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even notice Harpo when I watched the clip at HH (and I'm a big Marx Brothers fan). I was so astonished at seeing Schenck/Flowers that I didn't even look at who he was standing next to. If that is, in fact, the only filmed footage of whichever Schenck it is, then it's just as important for that reason as it is for Harpo...maybe more.

It is definitely Joe Schenck

Also, I don't believe this is Joe Schenck's only filmed appearance. As I recall he shows up in a 20th Century-Fox promo film, and perhaps elsewhere as well. This is also not Harpo's first on screen dialogue. He has a subtitle in 1925's "Too Many Kisses"

I'd be more comfortable with the ID if we weren't basing it on the circumstantial evidence that Nick and Harpo had a business relationship and Joe didn't. Remember, Joe knew everybody. Especially if they were high=stakes poker players, as Chico and i believe Zeppo were. Harpo testified at Joe's tax evasion trial in 1941, here's a newspaper article about it:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8150364" target="_blank

Here's a picture of him with the Marx Brothers--they were mutual friends of Irving Berlin:
http://www.glowimages.com/imagedetails/ ... sy%20.html" target="_blank

As for other film of Joe, isn't he one of Valentino's pallbearers? I would think there would be some footage of him at one of the early Academy Awards ceremonies, though i don't remember seeing any so far. There are quite a few still photos of Joe at various Hollywood functions--i was amused at the Moguls series where he turned up in photo after photo but wasn't mentioned until the third or fourth episode.

I'm not arguing for Joe, though, from the side this guy really looks like Joe but from the front, not so much, though he is looking down at the microphone and i dont' think i've ever seen Joe from that angle. I've seen comparatively few pictures of Nick.

greta

If I remember right, didn't Maltin introduce this clip as an outtake from a movietone newsreel? Maybe the final newsreel would shed light.

I'd be more comfortable with the ID if we weren't basing it on the circumstantial evidence that Nick and Harpo had a business relationship and Joe didn't. Remember, Joe knew everybody. Especially if they were high=stakes poker players, as Chico and i believe Zeppo were. Harpo testified at Joe's tax evasion trial in 1941, here's a newspaper article about it:

greta

To slightly derail my own thread with tangential but possibly interesting-to-someone information: I was downtown last week searching for a file in the County Hall of Records for another N-Villain, and ran across some Marx mentions in the civil case index books, dating from the 30s Interestingly, Groucho used his real name, Julius Marx, where the other (as I recall, Zeppo) was filed under Zeppo Marx. I think there was a case for Chico there, too...can't remember.

Now, back to Bess Flowers!

Rich, I did the same as you back in '92! For that broadcast of ET, I believe Leonard also included a piece of Bob Hope's 1931 screen test for MGM, filmed in NYC (Bob takes a spoonful of medicine and reacts to the taste).

Regarding the Schenck brothers: Joe had brown eyes, Nick had blue, otherwise their features were very similar. In every photo I've seen of Joe, he is without eyeglasses, whereas I've only seen pictures of Nick wearing what appear to be rather thick lenses. The Schenck with Harpo isn't wearing eyeglasses, though of course that proves nothing in itself...

On another somewhat-related-note-perhaps-of-mild interest: Nicholas Schenck's former Kings Point mansion on Long Island is now part of the Merchant Marine Academy. Silent star Thomas Meighan's home is right next door, perfectly intact albeit used as a dining area. Several other historic mansions can be found on the property, when the area was once part of an exclusive residential enclave before WWII.

Another vote for Joe.

Greta, thanks for that great photo of Chico and Harpo vocalizing with Irving Berlin. Wish there'd been a sound recording of that!

Enlarged:

http://www.glowimages.com/_snippets/previewimage/index.cfm?imgid=41497975&tab=

The man wearing glasses above Harpo reminds me a bit of Jerome Kern. Possible?

The man wearing glasses above Harpo reminds me a bit of Jerome Kern. Possible?

Yes, according to the original caption, Jerome Kern is in the photo. What a gathering!

greta

That's Lyle Talbot on the far left of the photo.

I can verify the man talking into the microphone with Harpo is Joseph Schenck. I just came across a still of them together standing in front of the mike at THE GREAT ZIEGFELD premiere. Joe is wearing white tie. There is a photo in the same envelope in the MGM Collection at the Herrick that shows Nicholas Schenck wearing black tie and glasses with his tuxedo.

I'd sure like to know what song they were singing; presumably one from Irving Berlin but who knows?

MIght've been Alexander's Ragtime Band. The event was Berlin's Silver Jubilee at the Ambassador Hotel, January 20, 1936, with the appearance of that song taken as the start of his career.

Ah, thanks. I was trying to pinpoint the year; thought it might've been a year or so earlier.