Tweet Worst Score For Silent Movie?

The discussion of the 1912 Cleopatra elsewhere on this site and the warnings about Maria Newman's score (which is, I believe, a chorale work simply tacked onto the piece) causes me to wonder what, in your opinion, is the worst score written specifically for a silent film?

Bob

[Mike Gebert]

You know, I don't like to bash people who try to innovate appropriately but those Club Foot scores for the Keaton films... I find them so damn jarring. I can't stay with the movie, they're always pulling me out.

Another one that's just weird and offputting is that score by the Tangerine Dream guy for L'Inferno, mainly because it contains vocals.

I'm pretty tolerant of scores, but the drum score for Symbol of the Unconquered is right up there. And i like drums!

greta

[silentfilm]

Michael Pohler's score for the Kino version of The Penalty is bad in that it makes no attempt to follow the action at all. I don't necessarily mind it being a modern synth score, but it draws attention to itself and doesn't help the tempo of the film at all.

Maria Newman's scores for WU-LI-CHANG (MR. WU) and THE LOVE LIGHT, are really lousy.

The scores that Fernando Kabusacki, Matías Mango and sometimes Alejandro Franov play on "Filmoteca" (they are not showing silents this week) are rather unremarkable and they sound similar from film to film. Yet, in absence of something they are accceptable.

For instance, to put a score to LAZYBONES (which is available online) I used the one that they performed for THE IRON HORSE, even if the music didn't exactly match the scenes. (Since there was no narrator in reading the titles in Spanish I was able to use it.)

Michael Pohler's score for the Kino version of The Penalty is bad in that it makes no attempt to follow the action at all. I don't necessarily mind it being a modern synth score, but it draws attention to itself and doesn't help the tempo of the film at all.

Boy I'm glad I am not the only one who thought so.
The Alloy Orch. annoy me as well. I have to turn down the volume because it detracts my attention from the movie.

btw, I hope to become a frequent reader and poster here.
THANK YOU TIM HART FOR TELLING ME ABOUT THIS FORUM!!

I didnt really like the Cleopatra score either. When it was just beats it was fine but the singing didnt feel right to me either.

Beyond that my main complaint is loops. The Mary Pickford DVD Collection would be one of such. "Little Annie Rooney" has a carnival themed loop...which is in full funtastic blast as she's told how her father has been shot on his bday. Yeah. #### you cheap people who thought that would do for a score....

Beyond that my main complaint is loops. The Mary Pickford DVD Collection would be one of such. "Little Annie Rooney" has a carnival themed loop...which is in full funtastic blast as she's told how her father has been shot on his bday. Yeah. #### you cheap people who thought that would do for a score....

Well, wait for the Pickford Foundation issues that will become available. Milestone Films and the Pickford Foundation have done a wonderful job with what has been released so far. Hopefully when Dennis returns from Pordenone, he can enlighten us to what is coming up and when re Pickford.

Remember, if you buy the cheapo PD sets, you do get what you pay for.
I'm no prude, but might want to use euphamisms or symbols (*#$^&^$, we'll know what you mean.

[Danny Burk]

I'm no prude, but might want to use euphamisms or symbols (*#$^&^$, we'll know what you mean.

Agreed. I've edited the post to reflect this; please keep forum conversation in good taste. Thank you.

Good theatre organ score for the Kino "The Penalty" is available for download at http://www.altscore.com. Just $3.95!

Ben

I'm no prude, but might want to use euphamisms or symbols (*#$^&^$, we'll know what you mean.

Agreed. I've edited the post to reflect this; please keep forum conversation in good taste. Thank you.

My apologies

Any of you folks catch the new score TCM ran with BROKEN BLOSSOMS a few months ago during the Asian American's in Film festival? Well, it doesn't get much worse than that was! Truly horrible! The print was a fresh new transfer and looked great, but the music ruined things completely.

The Terra Entertainment DVD of LITTLE ANNIE ROONEY hi-jacks the Hugo Resienfeld 1928 re-issue score from WAY DOWN EAST. A good score, but way out of sequence for LITTLE ANNIE ROONEY. Fortunately, I have both the William Perry, and Gaylord Carter scores to this film, and both are much more on que. But I still want a restored version with a full orchestra. This is actually a very fine movie.

Kino should be banned from putting out those awful synth scores.

[Danny Burk]

Kino should be banned from putting out those awful synth scores.

Since Jessica at Kino is one of our board members, I hope she brings it to the attention of the powers-that-be that basically *everyone* hates the types of scores we're discussing here...particularly Maria Newman (gaaaack...)

Danny, Mike,

Maria Newman hasn't done any scores for Kino that I know off. Just Milestone, and Image, as well as MR. WU on TCM.

You are confusing Club Foot Orchestra who only scored SHERLOCK JUNIOR for Kino, and Alloy Orchestra who scored THE GENERAL, and STEAMBOAT BILL JUNIOR for Image. All equally awful. I can't understand why Kino will not release SHERLOCK JUNIOR with the Vince Giordano score which is vastly superior! And Timothy Brock also recently wrote a score for the film too. If you have the older Kino Laser-disc of GO WEST that used to have a much better score too, than is on the current DVD.

Ben,

I put together a powerhouse score from Vintage recordings for THE PENALTY. Also for UNDERWORLD, and several others.

Id like to add "Blood and Sand" to this. Cant recall which release off the top of my head but much like BOAN it claims an 'original score'. What makes it maddening is it sounds like at least a well thought out loop (it does change about 3 times) but it doesnt match up.

The party scenes and wedding scenes have a long lingering dire 'something bad will happen' music over it, and even when you see the band and guitarists playing fast this same music is going. When Valentino tangos its the SAME music. AHHH!!! One shall not ruin the sacred tango!

The scene where he seduces his future wife from her window sill and a guitarist plays in the backround has a very slow guitar melody playing over it...doesnt even remotely sync up with what the guitarist is doing. In short its bad, but not the worst. Still terrible though.

Well, wait for the Pickford Foundation issues that will become available. Milestone Films and the Pickford Foundation have done a wonderful job with what has been released so far. Hopefully when Dennis returns from Pordenone, he can enlighten us to what is coming up and when re Pickford.

Sorry, it took even longer but I'm in the midst of a restoration (Araya, from 1959) so I'm not checking as often as I should. Sparrows (from the LOC restoration), The Hoodlum and Poor Little Rich Girl better be out next year for the 100th anni of Mary's first film appearance. The MPI/MPF should have everything done in time.

After that, I have a few ideas.

[Mike Gebert]

Sorry, it took even longer but I'm in the midst of a restoration (Araya, from 1959)

Salt For Venezuela!

The worst looped score of all times comes with Alpha's DVD of DER STUDENT VON PRAG (1913 version). Not just is the organ music grinding on the ears from the start, the loop is so short that only someone with the short term memory of a goldfish would not notice immediately.
And please don't tell me that's to be expected from PD distributors. As far as I know this is the only version of the film available at this moment. Unfortunately Alpha are also the only purveyors of the 1926 version of DER STUDENT VON PRAG, which must be the worst video quality available on commercial DVD.

The worst looped score of all times comes with Alpha's DVD of DER STUDENT VON PRAG (1913 version). Not just is the organ music grinding on the ears from the start, the loop is so short that only someone with the short term memory of a goldfish would not notice immediately.
And please don't tell me that's to be expected from PD distributors. As far as I know this is the only version of the film available at this moment. Unfortunately Alpha are also the only purveyors of the 1926 version of DER STUDENT VON PRAG, which must be the worst video quality available on commercial DVD.

Those needle-drop scores (from the 1970s) on the TCM versions of THE UNHOLY THREE and HE WHO GETS SLAPPED are annoying. I had hoped they'd have done a Chaney 2 box by now. and used better prints and new scores for both.

dr.giraud,

Those needle-drop scores (from the 1970s) on the TCM versions of THE UNHOLY THREE and HE WHO GETS SLAPPED are annoying. I had hoped they'd have done a Chaney 2 box by now. and used better prints and new scores for both.

Actually, I think they are from the 60's. The prints are not bad, it is the transfers that are not the best. Far as I know the long promised re-masters and fresh scores have not been completed, or even started on? I haven't heard a thing about it. That's probably why the Chaney Two set hasn't been released yet?

I still would like to see THE BLACKBIRD included. There is no reason to leave it out now. THE MOCKERY is getting a fresh score by James Schafer, so it makes sense to have that as a part of the set to. Replace the Maria Newman score to MR. WU, by all means! TELL IT TO THE MARINES is one of my favorites.

I'm more interested in a DVD of THE BIG PARADE than anything else. Although the lack of a DVD does not upset me nearly as much as that fact that the movie in any form has been absent on TCM for years now! When are we finally going to see the new fine grain-master broadcast?

Whoops, another double post! Sorry!

Id like to add "Blood and Sand" to this. Cant recall which release off the top of my head but much like BOAN it claims an 'original score'. What makes it maddening is it sounds like at least a well thought out loop (it does change about 3 times) but it doesnt match up.

The party scenes and wedding scenes have a long lingering dire 'something bad will happen' music over it, and even when you see the band and guitarists playing fast this same music is going. When Valentino tangos its the SAME music. AHHH!!! One shall not ruin the sacred tango!

The scene where he seduces his future wife from her window sill and a guitarist plays in the backround has a very slow guitar melody playing over it...doesnt even remotely sync up with what the guitarist is doing. In short its bad, but not the worst. Still terrible though.

It helps a lot if you can say what version it is -- we (Mont Alto) did a score for Kino's edition of BLOOD AND SAND, and I think it's quite adequate; and I want to make sure no one is scared away by the above description. BLOOD AND SAND is in the public domain, and anyone with a print can put out a version if they like, and you often get what little you pay for. The one from Netflix is apparently awful (as is their WAY DOWN EAST, which I couldn't make myself watch even for reference).

And not to be pedantic, but the dance in BLOOD AND SAND is, in fact, a Flameco Sevilliana, not a tango. We brought in a flamenco guitarist and castanet player, both of whom said he does a more-than-creditable job, and they scored it with an appropriate piece. Valentino does a nice tango in FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE, though it seems to me to be undercranked relative to the rest of the film.

Id like to add "Blood and Sand" to this. Cant recall which release off the top of my head but much like BOAN it claims an 'original score'. What makes it maddening is it sounds like at least a well thought out loop (it does change about 3 times) but it doesnt match up.

The party scenes and wedding scenes have a long lingering dire 'something bad will happen' music over it, and even when you see the band and guitarists playing fast this same music is going. When Valentino tangos its the SAME music. AHHH!!! One shall not ruin the sacred tango!

The scene where he seduces his future wife from her window sill and a guitarist plays in the backround has a very slow guitar melody playing over it...doesnt even remotely sync up with what the guitarist is doing. In short its bad, but not the worst. Still terrible though.

It helps a lot if you can say what version it is -- we (Mont Alto) did a score for Kino's edition of BLOOD AND SAND, and I think it's quite adequate; and I want to make sure no one is scared away by the above description. BLOOD AND SAND is in the public domain, and anyone with a print can put out a version if they like, and you often get what little you pay for. The one from Netflix is apparently awful (as is their WAY DOWN EAST, which I couldn't make myself watch even for reference).

And not to be pedantic, but the dance in BLOOD AND SAND is, in fact, a Flameco Sevilliana, not a tango. We brought in a flamenco guitarist and castanet player, both of whom said he does a more-than-creditable job, and they scored it with an appropriate piece. Valentino does a nice tango in FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE, though it seems to me to be undercranked relative to the rest of the film.

The nice tango in FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE is the second one, which he dances with Alice Terry and although it is brief, it is more realistic.

The most famous one is silly, although I now it created a sort of craze among English speakers. Did you ever notice that there is no bandoneon player featured in the scene?

Erich Von Stroheim, however, did feature a bandoneon player in a scene from THE MERRY WIDOW (and the fantasy place is called "Castellano", which is how we refer, at least in Argentina, to the Spanish language we speak).

Besides THE PENALTY and SHERLOCK JR., cast my vote for TCM's score for THE CAMERAMAN.
It's awful.

Also the Club Foot Orchestra score for JUPITER'S THUNDERBOLTS on the Flicker Alley Melies set.
It has a "look at us, aren't we clever" attitude that really spoils the film.

New scores (by yours truly) for all three of these are available for download at http://www.altscore.com. Am also now considering offering these scores on CD's for those folks who aren't up for downloading my MP3's and burning a disc from them.

Ben

Besides THE PENALTY and SHERLOCK JR., cast my vote for TCM's score for THE CAMERAMAN.
It's awful.

Also the Club Foot Orchestra score for JUPITER'S THUNDERBOLTS on the Flicker Alley Melies set.
It has a "look at us, aren't we clever" attitude that really spoils the film.

Hey! Don't blame Club Foot for travesties they didn't perpetrate! That was me doing the JUPITER'S THUNDERBALLS (on that set, you do need to check the program notes to see who did music, so the mistake is understandable).

Several of the key comedic points in that film were not clear to me on first viewing (for instance, Jupiter dropping the thunderbolts because they were still hot from the forge I only figured out on the third time through), and I doubted many viewers would watch it three times in a row just to catch jokes they'd missed. And if you miss that, you also miss why he uses a pot-holder to pick up his lightning bolt later, which is also funny.

Since the original screenings would have been accompanied by Melies' narration, he was relying on the jokes being pointed out. I didn't want to do narration, so I thought, what if when he picks up the hot thunderbolt, I say "Ouch!" I wouldn't have done that in a more serious film, of course, but this is so obviously a farce that I tried it, and thought it clearly pointed out that the thunderbolts were hot.

One step down the slippery slope and I thought "what the hell" and skiied to the bottom, doing the whole film with vocalizations. The muse's voices were provided by several kids I know, waylaid on their way home from school, Calliope's lyre was interpreted by my son on guitar, the double-reed instrument by my daughter with a Harmon mute in her cornet, etc. I had fun with it. Sorry you didn't like it. The rest of our scores on that set are more traditional, so consider it an experimental three-minute respite from a series of respectful scores.

I'm actually proud of JUPITER. Look at me. Aren't I clever?

Sometimes music can be much better than a film itself.

When in THE FOUR HORSEMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE you see the recreation of the battle of The Marne, the staging is extremely weak without authentic drama.

For that I prefer this tango by the greatest of all composers, Eduardo Arolas:







Todotango features a recording of the tango by the Osvaldo Fresedo orchestra, an artist he was already making records at the time of both the battle and the Rex Ingram film, from 1980:

http://www.todotango.com/spanish/las_ob ... px?id=1032

But, I prefer the recording of the Aníbal Troilo (Pichuco) orchestra in 1952 from an orchestration written by Astor Piazzolla:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o077LwME ... annel_page

Hey! Don't blame Club Foot for travesties they didn't perpetrate! That was me doing the JUPITER'S THUNDERBALLS (on that set, you do need to check the program notes to see who did music, so the mistake is understandable).

Several of the key comedic points in that film were not clear to me on first viewing (for instance, Jupiter dropping the thunderbolts because they were still hot from the forge I only figured out on the third time through), and I doubted many viewers would watch it three times in a row just to catch jokes they'd missed. And if you miss that, you also miss why he uses a pot-holder to pick up his lightning bolt later, which is also funny.

Since the original screenings would have been accompanied by Melies' narration, he was relying on the jokes being pointed out. I didn't want to do narration, so I thought, what if when he picks up the hot thunderbolt, I say "Ouch!" I wouldn't have done that in a more serious film, of course, but this is so obviously a farce that I tried it, and thought it clearly pointed out that the thunderbolts were hot.

One step down the slippery slope and I thought "what the hell" and skiied to the bottom, doing the whole film with vocalizations. The muse's voices were provided by several kids I know, waylaid on their way home from school, Calliope's lyre was interpreted by my son on guitar, the double-reed instrument by my daughter with a Harmon mute in her cornet, etc. I had fun with it. Sorry you didn't like it. The rest of our scores on that set are more traditional, so consider it an experimental three-minute respite from a series of respectful scores.

I'm actually proud of JUPITER. Look at me. Aren't I clever?

Your post inspired me to throw on Disc 2 and watch and listen to JUPITER. I can only say that it is one of the most enjoyable scores on the set and completely in line with the fun and silliness that Melies was trying to convey visually. I wish more scores had been done in this wacky manner. There was nothing "respectful" about Melies' approach to mythology, fairy tales, fantasy, etc. Why should the music be respectful?

My .02 worth:

#1) I HIGHLY recommend the scores offered by Ben Model on his altscore.com website. I downloaded THE PENALTY, SHERLOCK, JR., and THE CAMERAMAN not long ago and they are terrific. Since it is all digitial, it is very easy to synch up the scores with the DVDs and it makes the Kino versions of the 1st two enjoyable, which was not the case with the Kino scores. Rodney, have you ever considered making some of your scores available for download?

#2) I am pretty much in agreement with everyone here on the list of bad scores. Keep in mind, though, that sometimes the scores that get used are because of expediancy/cost. The Chaney needle drop scores already existed, so it meant that new scores did not have to be commissioned. Same thing with the poorly recorded piano score for THE CAMERAMAN.

#3) My understanding is that Kino tried to license the Vince Giordano score for Sherlock, Jr., but could not come to terms. There are certain restrictions that Kino must operate under when working with musicians that makes it difficult...they cannot afford to pay ongoing royalties, for instance. It is a "work for hire". Sometimes that limits what they can do. One thing I always point out when the Clubfoot Orchestra score for Sherlock, Jr, comes up is the fact that Eleanor Keaton *loved* that score.

--azjazzman