Is There A Most Wanted List?

[Gagman 66]

Now that WINGS has been released on DVD and Blu-ray, what are the remaining Top 10 most requested and or desired Silent films that have never been on DVD and obviously Blu-ray before? Does anyone know of such a list? The Top three should be THE BIG PARADE, BEAU GESTE, and THE CROWD. Possibly SHOW PEOPLE also in the top 5. I would say THE FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE, but it has had a second-tier label release. Now where does it go from there? Maybe we should start a list and forward the results to the major studios?

Incidentally, who really owns the rights to the 1926 BEAU GESTE? I've always heard it was Paramount, but lately that is not so certain. It appears BEAU GETSE (1926) might have actually been acquired by Universal at the same time as the 1929 version of the THE FOUR FEATHERS was? is this correct?

[Richard M Roberts]

Now that WINGS has been released on DVD and Blu-ray, what are the remaining Top 10 most requested and or desired Silent films that have never been on DVD and obviously Blu-ray before? Does anyone know of such a list? The Top three should be THE BIG PARADE, BEAU GESTE, and THE CROWD. Possibly SHOW PEOPLE also in the top 5. I would say THE FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE, but it has had a second-tier label release. Now where does it go from there? Maybe we should start a list and forward the results to the major studios?

Incidentally, who really owns the rights to the 1926 BEAU GESTE? I've always heard it was Paramount, but lately that is not so certain. It appears BEAU GETSE (1926) might have actually been acquired by Universal at the same time as the 1929 version of the THE FOUR FEATHERS was? is this correct?

No, it isn't. Paramount owns the silent version of BEAU GESTE, MCA only bought the Paramount Sound Films from 1928-48, which included THE FOUR FEATHERS because it had a soundtrack. MCA/Universal owns the 1939 Paramount remake of BEAU GESTE.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[augustinius]

*cough*GREED????*cough*

[Jim Reid]

Yeah, send 'em that list. I'm sure it will be a surprise to them and they'll get right on it.

[silentfilm]

You can certainly request films be made available on Amazon.com. I'm sure that if thousands of people request a film there, that they have some clout with video distributors.

If a released DVD/BluRay is not available on Netflix, you can request that also.

[buskeat]

George Feltenstein at Warner Bros. seems like a stand-up guy and I suspect there's a good reason that the old MGM silents that were on VHS utilizing the Thames Silents editions have not made it to DVD or Blu-Ray (except for Flesh and the Devil and Ben-Hur on DVD, that is). Otherwise, I have no other explanation as to why dozens of silent films have been added to the Warner Archive Collection, none of which have the selling power of GREED or THE CROWD or THE WIND.

My suspicion is he's been lying in wait until WB gives them the go-ahead to release these films in proper Blu-Ray editions. A lot depends on the success of WINGS and other catalog Blu-Ray releases in the first half of 2012. If you look at the release slate over the next few months, I get the impression that more older films are going to Blu-Ray in the first couple months of this year than in all the combined years of the Blu-Ray format.

The thing is, the home video people have to convince corporate of the financial viability of releasing films to home video, because the corporate people want to make a lot of money to support their drug habits, ex-wives and mistresses. Otherwise, you get things like the mass firings at Fox after the Murnau, Borzage and Fox boxed set flopped financially. Really, the only thing we can do is buy the Blu-Rays. Buy WINGS. Buy ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT next month. The success of THE ARTIST and HUGO helps certainly. This all helps folks like Feltenstein sell the idea of releasing the silent films to video.

[Gagman 66]

*cough*GREED????*cough*

OK, I forgot GREED, I'm sorry. But I have never much cared for it. A friend of mine described this picture as an epic about some of homeliest people ever to step foot in front of a camera. I far prefer THE WEDDING MARCH, which was supposedly leased to Criterion by Paramount in 2007.

[moviepas]

THE WEDDING MARCH

Tragically, no footage seems to have turned up of the other part of this project that was said to have been destroyed in that French Langlois vault fire. I remember seeing the remains of that vault fire on our TV news all those years ago. I have always wondered what else of significance was in that vault at the time. I never had any time for Henri's way of archiving even then.

I was horrified a couple of days ago to find the pre-order I had of Wings was not there. Somehow this disappeared off my pre-orders with a couple of other classic pre-orders I had done but I swiftly corrected this situation. Happened last April also at the same supplier.

[CoffeeDan]

George Feltenstein at Warner Bros. seems like a stand-up guy and I suspect there's a good reason that the old MGM silents that were on VHS utilizing the Thames Silents editions have not made it to DVD or Blu-Ray (except for Flesh and the Devil and Ben-Hur on DVD, that is). Otherwise, I have no other explanation as to why dozens of silent films have been added to the Warner Archive Collection, none of which have the selling power of GREED or THE CROWD or THE WIND.

I recall reading an interview with George Feltenstein from 2003 or 2004 where he mentioned some problems with bringing THE BIG PARADE to DVD. Warner Home Video wanted both the Carl Davis and Axt-Mendoza scores as part of the set. The main problem was that the scores wouldn't sync with the film on the same disc, and he floated the idea of making it a 2-disc set with one score on each disc. Of course, that would run up expenses, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone higher up nixed the idea. As I remember it, most of the problems stemmed from legal issues with both scores.

If I can find a link for that interview, I'll post it here . . .

[Rick Lanham]

George Feltenstein at Warner Bros. seems like a stand-up guy and I suspect there's a good reason that the old MGM silents that were on VHS utilizing the Thames Silents editions have not made it to DVD or Blu-Ray (except for Flesh and the Devil and Ben-Hur on DVD, that is). Otherwise, I have no other explanation as to why dozens of silent films have been added to the Warner Archive Collection, none of which have the selling power of GREED or THE CROWD or THE WIND.

I recall reading an interview with George Feltenstein from 2003 or 2004 where he mentioned some problems with bringing THE BIG PARADE to DVD. Warner Home Video wanted both the Carl Davis and Axt-Mendoza scores as part of the set. The main problem was that the scores wouldn't sync with the film on the same disc, and he floated the idea of making it a 2-disc set with one score on each disc. Of course, that would run up expenses, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone higher up nixed the idea. As I remember it, most of the problems stemmed from legal issues with both scores.

If I can find a link for that interview, I'll post it here . . .

This might be the interview (near the end):

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ ... 2504b.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Rick

[CoffeeDan]

Yes, that's it, Rick! I was just coming back to post the link when I saw your post.

THE BIG PARADE is mentioned near the end of the second page of the interview, and a little more in the update at the end.

[Gagman 66]

Rick,

OK, I had forgotten about this interview, because there was a second one 4 years later that talked about re-recording the the William Axt-David Mendoza score as it was in 1925, but keeping the Davis score as well. That was 2008 I believe. And I know it was supposed to be released before that even, in 2005 as your link affirms. But people this is 2012. Why pour allot of money and hard work into a major restoration of an important film the highest grossing movie of the 1920's, only to stash it away for another 8 years???

I've talked with Robert Israel several times and he wanted very much to be able to reprise the Axt-Mendoza score that he has preformed live with Orchestra in the past on a release of THE BIG PARADE. He has also preformed the entire thing on Theater Organ. Robert loved the score and hoped it would be used. That's being said, the Davis score is the one I am used to and Photoplay Productions has restored prints in 35 millimeter from the 2004 restoration combined with his 1983 score, so what is the hold-up than? The only thing that I can see that is missing is a video transfer? Unlike WINGS, most of the work on THE BIG PARADE was completed 8 years ago. Additional costs would be minimal.

As for it being a two disc set? It damn well ought to be after all this time. Loaded with Special features. Such a great film deserves at least that much.

Maybe the WINGS DVD-Blu-ray will also generate more interest in World War 1 era based films as well. Because let's face it there has been precious little over the years. In just the past few months incredibly we have gotten a TCM premieres of the Silent version of ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT, and a new transfer with the Movie-tone score of Raoul Walsh's WHAT PRICE GLORY? Now the WINGS DVD -Blu Ray, and next month ALL QUIET including the Silent version. Yet King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE, the film that made all these other possible gloriously restored the better part of a decade ago is still not around.

[Gagman 66]

By the way, when Mr. Feltenstein says "We have over 300 of them", is he talking about just the MGM and Warner Brother's titles, or does he include the First National pictures pre- WB merger in that mix? Anyone know?

Obviously, I am addressing the issue of the Richard Barthelmess, Billie Dove and Colleen Moore First National titles. None of which have ever been shown on TCM. Check that. WEARY RIVER has been on TCM. Milton Sills has THE SEA HAWK, and Corinne Griffith THE DIVINE LADY. All those have been released by Warner Archive too. Though still not a Single Colleen Moore or Billie Dove feature. THE BARKER I am told is tied up in rights issues, due to it being the same story as HOOPLA. The sound remake with Clara Bow in 1933.

What I am basically saying is it is more rumor than established fact that Warner's has any of Colleen Moore's or Billie Dove's Silent features in 35 millimeter. Anything else of Corinne Griffith either. David Shepard did state back in 2008 that Warner's did have Richard Barthelmess THE PATENT LEATHER KID, but any confirmed documented proof that they have a good 35 Millimeter print of LILAC TIME I have yet to see presented. The best I have to go on is the brief clip in the early 90's Gary Cooper documentary, of superior quality. And a 2003 screening I presume in 35 millimeter with the original scoring track restored. Where the materials came from though is not made clear. Ever since than, all screenings of LILAC TIME that I know of have apparently been from a 16 millimeter source.

[Christopher Jacobs]

...any confirmed documented proof that they have a good 35 Millimeter print of LILAC TIME I have yet to see presented. The best I have to go on is the brief clip in the early 90's Gary Cooper documentary, of superior quality. And a 2003 screening I presume in 35 millimeter with the original scoring track restored. Where the materials came from though is not made clear. Ever since than, all screenings of LILAC TIME that I know of have apparently been from a 16 millimeter source.

LILAC TIME used to be available on 8mm in a decent but not spectacular print from UA8. That was the first way I ever saw the film, from an 8mm mail-order rental library. I later saw a 16mm print that looked essentially identical (not much better quality). If good 35mm material still exists, it would be nice to see a restoration, but it's a film that really requires a responsive live audience with a really good accompanist who can play to the crowd; otherwise it bogs down all-too-often in silliness and cutesy schtick between the good action sequences. Colleen's best surviving film is easily ORCHIDS AND ERMINE, by a long shot, although ELLA CINDERS is fun and the others are mostly pleasant retreads of the same basic material.

[Gagman 66]

Christopher Jacobs,

Surviving prints of ELLA CINDERS all taken from the Kodascope are missing two reels. No 35 millimeter materials survive. It was originally a 7 reeler. ORCHIDS AND ERMINE was also seven reels. Complete prints exist in 35 millimeter, but generally only the 5 reel Kodascope 16 MM cut down get's any screenings. I would love to see the whole thing. THE BFI preserved this picture many years ago.

With respect, I think Colleen's best surviving film is TWINKLETOES. Does the alternate ending exist? I don't know. Hope it does. I have not seen HER WILD OAT, and obviously SYNTHETIC SIN and WHY BE GOOD. Personally, I think IRENE would be great in a full restoration as well as LILAC TIME. I didn't care much for IRENE when I first saw if, but given the right music it is allot better than you think. And I happened to like Colleen's cutesiness too. With a great print you might feel allot differently about LILAC TIME.

[goalieboy82]

would like to see both 4 hour and 5 and 1/2 hour Napoleon (1927) and 4 hourversion of Greed on dvd.

[telical]

Colleen's best surviving film is easily ORCHIDS AND ERMINE, by a long shot, although ELLA CINDERS is fun and the others are mostly pleasant retreads of the same basic material.

I thought "Sky Pilot" was good (I even liked the weird accordion soundtrack --- anyone know the history
on that??). It seems it really wasn't the same kind of material as "Orchids and Ermine" and "Ella Cinders".

Has anyone seen, "The Busher" with Colleen?

[Gagman 66]

THE BUSHER is a Charles Ray feature from 1919. Besides Colleen Moore as the leading lady, a young Jack Gilbert appears as the rival. The Kino version and the Grapevine print have several different scenes. In-fact some key footage is missing in the Kino release that better helps explains an important element of the plot. Colleen is just darling in the picture, but isn't given much to do. In Russia they are supposed to have a print of EGG CRATE WALLOP another Charles Ray picture with Colleen Moore.

None of this answers my question if Warner's has 35 Millimeter materials on not just LILAC TIME, but also IRENE, TWINKLETOES, ORCHIDS AND ERMINE, or even HER WILD OAT?

[Christopher Jacobs]

Colleen's best surviving film is easily ORCHIDS AND ERMINE, by a long shot, although ELLA CINDERS is fun and the others are mostly pleasant retreads of the same basic material.

I thought "Sky Pilot" was good (I even liked the weird accordion soundtrack --- anyone know the history
on that??). It seems it really wasn't the same kind of material as "Orchids and Ermine" and "Ella Cinders".

Has anyone seen, "The Busher" with Colleen?

THE BUSHER (1919) and THE SKY PILOT (1921) are fine but from the early part of her career and not really what are considered "Colleen Moore" pictures. With her new image in FLAMING YOUTH (1923) and its success, Colleen Moore suddenly became a much more popular and marketable "type" and from then on her films rarely deviated from that formula, although TWINKLETOES seems to be an experiment to cast her in more of a Mary Pickford formula. It's a shame so many of her films are lost, but the recently rediscovered HER WILD OAT shows that many of the lost films are probably just more of the same pleasant but predictable routine. She's got a great screen charisma, but almost every film has her playing the same character in almost the same sort of situations. Her few talkies show more range and depth, and it's too bad she didn't make more films after sound came in, but she had other interests by then.

[Gagman 66]

Christopher Jacobs.

Well, I disagree the same thing could be said of Clara Bow films. As well as Laura La Plante, Pola Negri, Marie Prevost, and allot of other people. Even Swanson. I assure you that Speedy (Waverboy) is going to be happy with your comments either. By the way, Archives in Barcelona and Amsterdam also apparently have some materials on NAUGHTY BUT NICE, and OH KAY! Hopefully, more than just some materials, but I do not have firm details.

I think Colleen is allot more versatile than you are giving her credit for. It still doesn't explain why such a major Star has never had anything on TCM, when Warner's owns the rights to the surviving features. Even Corinne Griffith has had THE DIVINE LADY. And with Flicker Alley THE GARDEN OF EDEN. I only mentioned HER WILD OAT and LILAC TIME because they are the two most likely titles to pop up on TCM, but I would be happy with anything. Even THE DEVILS CLAIM, or BROKEN CHAINS, which also has Clarie Windsor. Likewise, nowhere to be found on TCM. I'd be elated to discover that either SYNTHETIC SIN or WHY BE GOOD? were finally being worked on. Obviously that's not the case.

This has turned into a conversation about Colleen Moore again. I started the thread looking for a 10 Most wanted list of Silents that have never been on DVD. Let's make it Top 15. Or even a Top 20. No one has come up with a solid list. Obviously NAPOLEON would probably top the list, but we already know that is out. And the Coppolla version actually did have a release in Australia some 10 or 11 years ago.

[moviepas]

And the Coppolla version actually did have a release in Australia some 10 or 11 years ago.

Universal released this version.