The Mack Sennett Collection: 100 Years of Keystone Comedy

[Richard Finegan]

Clever programming or just a coincidence?
After the short THE FATAL GLASS OF BEER (W.C. Fields) they ran the Ripley's BELIEVE IT OR NOT short that features a guy who plays the piano with his mittens on.
(Those familiar with the Fields short will get the connection!)

[dbpearson]

The end slate for THIRST was incorrect, we caught the error just after the broadcast and it has been corrected on the archival master.

-- PG

Something else you may want to fix:
I noticed the word "captain" was misspelled in a title near the end of SMITH'S PONY.

Actually, "Captain's" is the correct word in that slate, as opposed to the wording "captian's" in the film. The word "captain" would have been even more incorrect, as bad grammar trumps a typo in the halls of literary snafu -- not to mention both ways have incorrect capitalization.

Furthermore -- the Online Urban dictionary defines a "Captian" as:
1. Pertaining to one who is supreme. The name of a person who exceeds in every aspect of life. An amazing human being. A Captian. 2. Anyone who is known as amazing, awesome, stellar, or freakin sweet.
"Steve is a Captian because he is better then me at everything." So maybe the guy running the ship is a really great guy!

But regardless, yeah. That slate needs fixing.
DBP

[ILoveMary68]

That Billy Bevan is a real card huh? Seems a little whacky though his humor, especially in Hoboken to Hollywood, he found everything amusing, shooting that guy in the butt, sinking Vernon Dent's little mini-bus (?), ect.. He found humor in everything. Seemed a little over the top with his humor, in Hoboken, but nonetheless, it was still a cool short.

I wasn't aware Vernon Dent got his start in Silents? I only seen him in the Three Stooges.

[greta de groat]

I actually laughed out loud at that one with Bevan as Vernon Dent's annoying best man. I think it's the best film i've seen him in, though the following one was pretty good too.

Vernon Dent was always one of my favorite things about Stooges movies. And Bud Jamison, too--i didn't know he could sing!

And loved Smith's uber-cute baby pony.

Only saw the middle blocks, so hope to catch up with the rest this weekend.

greta

[Joe Migliore]

ILoveMary68 wrote:

I wasn't aware Vernon Dent got his start in Silents? I only seen him in the Three Stooges.

You need to watch more Langdon shorts to get a better appreciation of Dent.

[Harlowgold]

Does anyone if any of the Sennett regulars were interviewed anywhere about these films in later years? Several of these players like Madalynne Field and Daphne Pollard lived into the 1970's and Matty Kemp was still around in 1999.

[Rob Farr]

Kalton Lahue was probably the historian who was most successful in tracking down and interviewing the old comedy stars in the 1960's. See COPS AND CUSTARDS: THE LEGEND OF KEYSTONE, MACK SENNETT'S KEYSTONE and, written with Sam Gill, CLOWN PRINCES AND COURT JESTERS. Newspaper columnists were always writing about Sennett veterans, including Sennett, but usually on the level of, "How many pies did you throw?" and stories touting planned comebacks.

[Richard Finegan]

Bud Jamison--I didn't know he could sing!

greta

Yes, Bud Jamison sang very well. He sang in several films and even made a couple of records.
In 1930 he and comedian Jimmy Adams had an act in which they sang country/hillbilly-type songs: Bud playing harmonica and Jimmy on guitar. Both handled the vocals with Bud even indulging in an occasional yodel.
The called themselves The Rolling Stones!
On September 15, 1930 (between 2 and 4:30 P.M.) they recorded two songs for Victor Records: "Down By the Old Rio Grande" and "Mountain Angel" ("Singing with guitar and harmonica" stated the record label).
Both songs were written by Jack Baxley and Jimmy (spelled Jimmie on the labels) Adams. They were released on Victor 78 #V-40316 and on Victor's Montgomery Ward record label #4297.

On September 26, 1930 Bud Jamison was back at Victor recording another song, this time without his pal Adams. At this session Bud provided the vocal chorus for Leroy Shield and the Victor Hollywood Orchestra's recording of "Song of the Big Trail (Old Fashioned Song of Love)" (Joseph McCarthy and James F. Hanley). This was the theme music for the 1930 Fox Film THE BIG TRAIL with lyrics added (not used in the movie). The song was listed on the record label as a waltz and Bud did a beautiful job with it. The song was released on Victor 78 #22548 (and in England on HMV B-5941). (The other side of the record had no Bud Jamison involvement but is a great version by Leroy Shield and the Orchestra of the 1930 song "Sing Song Girl").

In 1930 Jamison and Adams as "The Rolling Stones" also had their own film series: "The Rolling Stone Series" produced by Wildermere and Braun, and released by Tiffany Pictures. Only two shorts were made, although originally it was announced there would be a series of six. They were filmed in the Multi-Color process and were one-reelers (about ten minutes each):
THE ROLLING STONES IN THE MOUNTAINS (9-18-30)
THE ROLLING STONES IN THE DESERT (12-18-30).
The two songs recorded by Jamison and Adams for their Victor 78 were from the second of the two shorts. The two songs performed in the first short were "I'm a Rolling Stone" and "Who's That Calling Me?"
There wasn't much to these shorts, just Bud and Jimmy sitting around singing their songs and telling jokes and stories while the camera occasionally pans across the beautiful colorful scenery. The shorts were actually promoted by Tiffany as color travelogues as much as musical and comedy shorts.
Jack Baxley (co-writer of the songs) apparently owned the rights to these films (or acquired them later), as he reissued at least one of them (THE ROLLING STONES IN THE MOUNTAINS) in 1944 under the new title MOUNTAIN SPLENDOR.

Bud Jamison and Jimmy Adams also appeared in the Pathe feature THE GRAND PARADE (2-2-30) but that movie appears to be regarded as lost. Although material such as the music cue sheet and reviews are helpful they don't confirm whether or not Bud and Jimmy appear together in the film and if so, do they do any singing? I have the Vitaphone discs for reels 5 and 7 but they confirm only that the guys don't appear in those two reels.

[Jim Roots]

Keith Richards was probably around 275 years old when he played backup guitar on those 1930 hit songs. Now we know where he really got the idea for the name.

Do the two shorts still exist?

Jim

[greta de groat]

Thanks for the great info on jamison. The Rolling Stones? Oh dear, the imagery that conjures up is making my brain hurt ...

Greta

[Richard Finegan]

Keith Richards was probably around 275 years old when he played backup guitar on those 1930 hit songs. Now we know where he really got the idea for the name.

Do the two shorts still exist?

Jim

Yes, at least the second one does. I have a pretty good copy of it under its 1944 reissue title. The sound is great and color decent.

Oh, and by the way, although the titles are changed for the reissue, the original 1930 Tiffany End Title is still intact.

[Salty Dog]

I have been gradually going through the shorts from the TCM
festival, and just finished watching Lizzies of the Field, which
I had seen previously in other collections, but seeing it this way
in the context of other Sennett shorts from the same time period,
I have to ask if this film survives in a latter day cut-down instead
of the complete short. It's quite a bit shorter than the other
shorts from that period shown, and it begins very abruptly.There
is no reference in IMDB to it appearing in a compilation before
the 1990's, but I know that source is hardly always accurate.

[Richard M Roberts]

I have been gradually going through the shorts from the TCM
festival, and just finished watching Lizzies of the Field, which
I had seen previously in other collections, but seeing it this way
in the context of other Sennett shorts from the same time period,
I have to ask if this film survives in a latter day cut-down instead
of the complete short. It's quite a bit shorter than the other
shorts from that period shown, and it begins very abruptly.There
is no reference in IMDB to it appearing in a compilation before
the 1990's, but I know that source is hardly always accurate.

Yes, a number of the Billy Bevan Sennett shorts only survive in one-reel Pathegram cutdowns. MOMA has material on the first reel of LIZZIES OF THE FIELD, but wouldn't make it available for the restoration. Just to stop any future whining now, yes, A SEA DOGS TALE and THE GOLF NUT also only survive in one-reel versions, and that is what you get in the Cinemuseum restorations.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[Gloria Rampage]

Did Pathe' reissue A SEA DOG'S TALE in the late 20's or early 30's with a synchronized music and effects track? I've got a sound version on a Videobrary VHS that has music and sound effects that sounds similar to their Laurel and Hardy DUCK SOUP release.

[Picratt]

MOMA has material on the first reel of LIZZIES OF THE FIELD, but wouldn't make it available for the restoration.

Have MOMA ever made any material available for DVD releases, do you know ?

[Rodney]

Sure. Most of the D.W. Griffith and Douglas Fairbanks films come from MoMA's collections, as well as plenty of others.

[Picratt]

Sure. Most of the D.W. Griffith and Douglas Fairbanks films come from MoMA's collections, as well as plenty of others.

Oh, thank..well, MOMA, I guess.
Thanks

[BenModel]

I also connected Kino with MoMA when they asked me to score THE IRON MULE, sine MoMA's print is 35mm and complete; that's the version that's on the recent OUR HOSPITALITY release.

[Richard M Roberts]

I also connected Kino with MoMA when they asked me to score THE IRON MULE, sine MoMA's print is 35mm and complete; that's the version that's on the recent OUR HOSPITALITY release.

Well okay Ben, then you go get Paul LIZZIES OF THE FIELD for the DVD set........at a fair price. We're waiting.

Actually, though MOMA does have materials on the Griffith and Fairbanks films, those are also available from any number of other sources, and actually a number of the recent DVD releases have not been from their materials as I recall (has their restoration of INTOLERANCE ever made it to a DVD?). Frankly,of the major American Archives, MOMA is currently the most difficult to deal with in terms of cost and hoops to jump through for access. We havent booked anything from them for Slapsticon since 2003 because of this.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[Picratt]

Actually, though MOMA does have materials on the Griffith and Fairbanks films, those are also available from any number of other sources, and actually a number of the recent DVD releases have not been from their materials as I recall (has their restoration of INTOLERANCE ever made it to a DVD?). Frankly,of the major American Archives, MOMA is currently the most difficult to deal with in terms of cost and hoops to jump through for access. We havent booked anything from them for Slapsticon since 2003 because of this.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

That is the answer I was expecting, and was afraid of getting.
I must say that I do not at all agree with MOMA if that is the case, that they refuse to let the people get a chance to watch these films, do they really expect the whole world to travel to those few screenings or to their archive in order to watch these films, does that seem fair to any of you ?
To me it sounds like a waste of perfectly great films, and also a huge waste of a chance to spread these films, create more interest, make more funds for further preservation etc.
What exactly is their, and similar archives, motivation to such restriction ?
Anyone care, or dare, to let me and other curious parts know ?
Usually nobody want to answer this.
And no, I am not ungrateful, I just expect more from people who say they want to preserve and honour history.

[Rodney]

Well, don't be too hard on MoMA just because Richard Roberts has had trouble with them. The recent BluRay of Birth of a Nation came from MoMA working with Kino, and as an orchestra we've had no problem getting 35mm prints for screenings of other films when needed -- our three appearances in Chicago have been to excellent prints from MoMA. Perhaps Richard should have let Ben Model do the asking.

I have a soft spot for MoMA because Mont Alto's first major silent film show was to MoMA's 16mm print of the silent Beau Geste (which, though it's rather worn, is still the only legitimate way to see that film unless you own a print or know a private collector with one). They were happy to send it to me a few weeks early so that I could prepare a score.

[Picratt]

Well, don't be too hard on MoMA just because Richard Roberts has had trouble with them. The recent BluRay of Birth of a Nation came from MoMA working with Kino, and as an orchestra we've had no problem getting 35mm prints for screenings of other films when needed -- our three appearances in Chicago have been to excellent prints from MoMA. Perhaps Richard should have let Ben Model do the asking.

I have a soft spot for MoMA because Mont Alto's first major silent film show was to MoMA's 16mm print of the silent Beau Geste (which, though it's rather worn, is still the only legitimate way to see that film unless you own a print or know a private collector with one). They were happy to send it to me a few weeks early so that I could prepare a score.

Well, from what I see here, Paul has had problems getting material from them as well, am I correct ? And that is when I start asking questions.
I most certainly hope that MOMA is not as difficult as it seems, and as I have read over and over again, because they are not doing history, or themselves, any favours by creating unnecessary limitations.
These films should be available to all as far as it can be done, and if someone want to release them on DVD, which is the best thing that can happen to these films, then I do not see why MOMA won't let that happen.
The way LOC do their business is great, anyone can purchase non-copyright prints to enjoy, just pay the price, brilliant !
I understand that insiders, or VIPs if you wish, have soft spots, because they can access these films, us non-important fans are stuck dreaming seemingly impossible dreams about these films.
I'm saving my soft spot for those who truly deserve it.

[Richard M Roberts]

Well, don't be too hard on MoMA just because Richard Roberts has had trouble with them. The recent BluRay of Birth of a Nation came from MoMA working with Kino, and as an orchestra we've had no problem getting 35mm prints for screenings of other films when needed -- our three appearances in Chicago have been to excellent prints from MoMA. Perhaps Richard should have let Ben Model do the asking.

I have a soft spot for MoMA because Mont Alto's first major silent film show was to MoMA's 16mm print of the silent Beau Geste (which, though it's rather worn, is still the only legitimate way to see that film unless you own a print or know a private collector with one). They were happy to send it to me a few weeks early so that I could prepare a score.

Well, from what I see here, Paul has had problems getting material from them as well, am I correct ? And that is when I start asking questions.
I most certainly hope that MOMA is not as difficult as it seems, and as I have read over and over again, because they are not doing history, or themselves, any favours by creating unnecessary limitations.
These films should be available to all as far as it can be done, and if someone want to release them on DVD, which is the best thing that can happen to these films, then I do not see why MOMA won't let that happen.
The way LOC do their business is great, anyone can purchase non-copyright prints to enjoy, just pay the price, brilliant !
I understand that insiders, or VIPs if you wish, have soft spots, because they can access these films, us non-important fans are stuck dreaming seemingly impossible dreams about these films.
I'm saving my soft spot for those who truly deserve it.

The point I was going to make before Rodney had to try to get all bitchy and personal again is that the main problem all archives face is financial, and each one deals with it differently. As someone who has worked with most of the major archives on various projects over the years (and deals with several of them on virtually a daily basis and has a number of friends in all of them), I can attest that there has been ebb and flow in terms of various archives making their materials available or not at any given time, and though some of the reasons are bureaucratic, the main reason at all of the Archives is a lack of funding, and the current economy has made it even worse. LOC, due to being Publically funded, can and does make the best effort to make it's treasures available to the Public (and Rodney, their 35mm material on BEAU GESTE blows MOMA's out of the water), partially because they have to, but also because the Folk in charge feel and know this is the right thing to do.

The other archives, less publically-funded, have less definite inclination to do so, but most actually do what they can to make their material available in a manner that earns them some money but is also user-friendly. MOMA is not very good at this, their fees are the highest of the American Archives, and they are very rigid in their pricing. And hey, unlike Sauer, who, due to his bad attitude has basically blown his chances of ever playing for a Slapsticon(not that we ever seriously considered him in the first place), Ben Model has been one of our regular accompanists from Day One, and along with Steve Massa has done all he could to bring MOMA on board with us, to no avail. Other archives seem to understand that if they make their fees affordable, they make more money with more rentals, and their work is more widely seen. MOMA has yet to learn this lesson, and it has hurt no one but themselves, and the films they hold.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[mndean]

Other archives seem to understand that if they make their fees affordable, they make more money with more rentals, and their work is more widely seen. MOMA has yet to learn this lesson, and it has hurt no one but themselves, and the films they hold.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

That it hurts MOMA is a pity, that it hurts the films they hold is a crime.

[Paul E. Gierucki]

I have the greatest respect for the various film archives, even those which may have policies that are not "commercial release" friendly, they are doing important work under difficult circumstances with limited budgets and staff.

We were fortunate to obtain many incredible prints, negs and other elements for 125 rare Sennett films. These materials came by way of LoC, private archives, foreign archives, and many private collectors around the world. We did approach several other U.S. archives about utilizing one or two items from their holdings and, yes, some those requests went unanswered. It did not affect production, others immediately came to our assistance. Overall, we secured 98% of the items on our want list and we could not have been happier.

I shall continue to search for missing footage, take another run at some of the more amenable archives, and will incorporate everything that we secure into the DVD release.

-- PG

[Jim Roots]

So, bottom line, are we still going to be getting this set on DVD or not? And if yes, when?

Jim

[dbpearson]

So, bottom line, are we still going to be getting this set on DVD or not? And if yes, when?

Jim

Jim,

You might try reading what the man said...

1) Is it coming? Yes. What was on TCM, and 48 more.
2) When will it be done? When it's finished.

DBP

[Jim Roots]

So, bottom line, are we still going to be getting this set on DVD or not? And if yes, when?

Jim

Jim,

You might try reading what the man said...

1) Is it coming? Yes. What was on TCM, and 48 more.
2) When will it be done? When it's finished.

DBP

David, there are five pages of comments in this thread. It has veered off into discussions about Paul's difficulty in getting elements, the inevitable complaints about this or that musician, and blah de blah, so that even re-reading five pages of comments leaves me concerned that perhaps the DVD is sliding towards limbo. I was simply looking for reassurance that it is, in fact, still on track for an "imminent" release. Thank you.

Jim

[BenModel]

I also connected Kino with MoMA when they asked me to score THE IRON MULE, sine MoMA's print is 35mm and complete; that's the version that's on the recent OUR HOSPITALITY release.

Well okay Ben, then you go get Paul LIZZIES OF THE FIELD for the DVD set........at a fair price. We're waiting.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

To set the record straight on this for everyone -- I just connected Kino with the person at MoMA who handles requests like this and had nothing to do with negotiating or fees. Kino worked out with MoMA what they worked out; I have no influence in that respect.

Ben

[JFK]

Currently up for sale on eBay- a program page from Sennett's only Broadway show.
John Barrymore-in the cast credits as "Tony Allen" in the image below-
took over the "Allen" role on May 27th from director/actor Arnold Daly.
http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=31141 http://www.ibdb.com/production.php?id=4766