Chaplin Mutuals 90th Anniversary Edition back in print

[Steve Massa]

Thanks for the info David.

[Mr. Bear]

Just a question on the intertitles for the new set (as opposed to the main titles) - were they made from samples of original Mutual titles or based on a later re-issue?

The intertitles are made from samples of the original Mutual titles.

DS

I was always confused when watching the Mutuals early on since the title cards always listed "Lone Star" or some other studio.

Not to steer away on the subject, but has any new missing material showed up for any of the Essanay films?

[DShepFilm]

Lone Star is the production company established just for the Chaplin films by Mutual. Mutual was the original distributor and it is their logo that adorned the titles. However, Lone Star Corporation was the copyright holder.


We just started on the Essanay films this week. So far, dunno much.

David

[Sammy Jones]

Mutual was the original distributor and it is their logo that adorned the titles.
David

David,

Is it possible to ascertain if the print of the Floorwalker held in the Mutual Outtakes collection at BFI is an original Mutual print? Will selected Mutual outtakes have a place on the new Bluray release?

Sammy Jones

[DShepFilm]

The Mutual outtakes at the BFI are part of the Cohen (formerly Rohauer) Collection. Fortunately, we had other first-generation material on "The Floorwalker" as Charles Cohen currently has a no-licensing policy.

Even though Film Preservation Associates has an unbreakable chain of title to the Chaplin Mutuals, the out-takes were severed from the edited films as the result of a lawsuit from Charles Chaplin when a distributor in the 1920s attempted to make "new" Chaplin comedies out of the footage. The distributor was restrained from its plans and the outtake footage was sold to Chaplin under court order for a token sum. When the Chaplin studio was closed down, most of the film remaining there, including almost a thousand cans of Mutual outtakes, was sold to a film salvage company that was supposed to burn it for the silver; however, realizing what it was, the salvage company instead sold it by the pound to Raymond Rohauer, who thus acquired it with clear title.

Rohauer than attempted to distribute the copyrighted Chaplin features commercially using the prints acquired in the lot. To settle the threat of copyright infringement action against him by the Chaplin office, he agreed to surrender all of the post-1918 material except the silent "The Gold Rush," which was then in the public domain, to Rachel Ford, Chaplin's representative. It was a huge truckload of film, and Miss Ford had all of it destroyed. Who knows what treasures were lost in addition to copies of the released films? Rohauer then lost "The Gold Rush" when he began to distribute it in countries that subscribed to the Berne Copyright Convention, where the copyright was solid, and Miss Ford obtained a judgment against him.

David Shepard

[Sammy Jones]

I was not aware of the restrictions on the Rohauer Collection. It would be great to one day make those outtakes available for fans to appreciate.

Too bad about the film junking. I was aware that Chaplin's copyrighted material was returned to the Estate by Rohauer, but not that it was destroyed! Is this what befell the B negatives to the silents that Chaplin owned the copyright to?

French eBay has several nitrate prints of Chaplin films right now, including some Mutual and First National material. Here's a link:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/35mm-Nitrate-18- ... 156wt_1787

Sammy Jones

[jrichard88]

Salivating at the thought of a Blu-ray release for the Mutuals. It'll probably be months or even a year before I have it in my hands, but I can't wait to see it!

[MikeH0714]

Even though Film Preservation Associates has an unbreakable chain of title to the Chaplin Mutuals, the out-takes were severed from the edited films as the result of a lawsuit from Charles Chaplin when a distributor in the 1920s attempted to make "new" Chaplin comedies out of the footage. The distributor was restrained from its plans and the outtake footage was sold to Chaplin under court order for a token sum.

To elaborate just a bit: a five reel feature and two 2-reelers were assembled, titled, screened for exhibitors and ready to go to market when Chaplin swooped in with an injunction. When he finally bought the outtake footage, these 3 patch jobs were included in the deal. Where they went after that is anyone's guess. They're not among the BFI material, which has been completely cataloged. Did Chaplin immediately or eventually destroy them? Did they wind up with Rohauer, who didn't realize what he had? Are they slowly rotting away somewhere in Europe, sitting in cans labeled with unfamiliar titles?

Unlikely, of course, but it would be fascinating to see them.

Michael
http://mutual-chaplin.blogspot.com" target="_blank

[Roscoe]

I had the great pleasure of seeing the new restorations of EASY STREET, THE CURE, THE ADVENTURER and THE IMMIGRANT at Film Forum over the weekend, and they were gorgeously done overall. If these are the versions coming up on Blu-Ray, I'll be grabbing them at the first opportunity.

The sole drawback was that some of the scores were recorded live, which meant we heard pre-recorded laughter and applause.

[MikeH0714]

I had the great pleasure of seeing the new restorations of EASY STREET, THE CURE, THE ADVENTURER and THE IMMIGRANT at Film Forum over the weekend, and they were gorgeously done overall. If these are the versions coming up on Blu-Ray, I'll be grabbing them at the first opportunity.

The sole drawback was that some of the scores were recorded live, which meant we heard pre-recorded laughter and applause.

I was there as well, Roscoe... would've said hello but I don't know who you are!

It's always fun seeing those films with an audience, but this was especially fun. A young mother brought her two small daughters (youngest was 5) to the show. One of them was laughing so hard at times, she was wheezing... and that just added to the evening's enjoyment. Silent, yes; black-and-white, yes; doesn't matter. To young eyes these films will always be timeless, and rich enough to be revisited - and better understood - while growing older.

Michael

[antifrodis]

I picked up the new Mutual DVD set. I have to say that I haven't seen these films look any better. I can't wait for the forthcoming Blu-Ray edition. The transfers are great, and I am also enjoying the new soundtracks.
For those of you that are curious about the "completeness" of the films, for the most part, we get more than we ever had. Unless it's simply the quality of the new transfers, I am detecting new source material for many of the films. I am a bit disappointed that the missing footage from the beginning of reel two of "Easy Street" was not located and included. I am also puzzled as to why "The Immigrant" does not contain additional material, especially since it is footage that some of us have seen, and is described in the recently released book on the Mutuals as well. I suppose that it is possible that they restricted source material to 35mm and were unable locate the scenes in that format. Minor quibbles aside, there is much to be happy about.
The Mutuals are what initially sparked my interest in Chaplin many years ago. It's so nice to have the films treated with such respect and care. Despite the above mentioned minor flaws, this is definitely a worthy purchase for the Chaplin fan, and an amazing representation of these classic films.

[ChaplinFan]

Looks like The Adventurer is the first of the mutuals to be released on Blu-ray in the US. It'll be distributed by Flicker Alley. Will all of the Mutuals be released individually, or will there be a box set down the line too?

[DShepFilm]

It will be a 5-disc box set in a steelcase. 2 Blu-Ray discs and 2 DVDs of the twelve comedies and a new documentary on Chaplin's beginnings and the restorations.

Ten of the films are as good as they are going to get. However, we are still awaiting (hoping for) new scans from better material of EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy, where the clocks apparently run on geologic time.

As Uncle Scrooge's secretary Miss Quackfaster used to say, we're quacking as fast as we can.

David Shepard

[ChaplinFan]

It will be a 5-disc box set in a steelcase. 2 Blu-Ray discs and 2 DVDs of the twelve comedies and a new documentary on Chaplin's beginnings and the restorations.

Ten of the films are as good as they are going to get. However, we are still awaiting (hoping for) new scans from better material of EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy, where the clocks apparently run on geologic time.

As Uncle Scrooge's secretary Miss Quackfaster used to say, we're quacking as fast as we can.

David Shepard

That's excellent! Just so I'm not misinterpreting you, is this 5-disc set being released in place of The Adventurer Blu-ray release mentioned by Flicker Alley, or were you talking about a separate release altogether?

[Mike Gebert]

Where did you see that The Adventurer would be on blu-ray by itself? Surely that meant that it would be available via streaming, the complete series will be out as a set as David Shepard says.

[ChaplinFan]

Where did you see that The Adventurer would be on blu-ray by itself? Surely that meant that it would be available via streaming, the complete series will be out as a set as David Shepard says.

From Blu-ray.com:

Independent U.S. distributors Flicker Alley have revealed that they are planning to add a number of exciting titles to their Blu-ray catalog. Amongst them are Charlie Chaplin's The Adventurer, from Chaplin's Mutual Comedies, Iain Kennedy's Palace of Silents (2010), and Mack Sennett's Bathing Girls at the Ocean Park Peer (circa 1919).
UPCOMING RELEASES:

1. Wallace Worsley's The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1923). Part of the Blackhawk Films collection. Blu-ray edition.

2. Charlie Chaplin's The Adventurer, from Chaplin's Mutual Comedies. A Flicker Alley/Blackhawk Films presentation. Newly restored by Lobster Films, Cineteca di Bologna, and the British Film Institute. Coming soon in a Blu-ray Special SteelBook edition.

3. Iain Kennedy's Palace of Silents, part of the Flicker Alley/Blackhawk Films We're in the Movies collection. Coming soon in a Blu-ray+DVD edition.

4. Mack Sennett's Bathing Girls at the Ocean Park Peer (circa 1919). Part of Mack Sennett Keystone (Vol. 1), a Flicker Alley/Keystone, Inc. presentation. Coming soon in a Blu-ray+DVD edition.

5. The Albatros serial The House of Mystery (1923), directed by Alexandre Volkoff, and starring Julien Vilandrit (Ivan Mosjoukine). A Flicker Allery/Blackhawks Films presentation. DVD edition.

6. M.L. Gunzburg Presents Natural Vision 3-Dimension, from 3D rarities. A Flicker Alley/3D Film Archive presentation. Blu-ray.

7. Seven Wonders of the World (1956), a Flicker Alley/Cinerama, Inc. presentation. Blu-ray/DVD edition.

8. Masterworks of American Avant-garde Film, 1920-1970, a Flicker Alley/Blackhawk Films presentation. Coming soon in a Blu-ray edition.

9. Search for Paradise (1957), a Flicker Alley/Cinerama, Inc. presentation. Blu-ray/DVD edition.

The news announcement was retweeted by Flicker Alley's twitter account too..

[ChaplinFan]

Looks like Blu-ray.com's news article was wrong.

This was a reply from Flicker Alley to a member at Blu-ray.com:

Michael,

Thanks for getting in touch with us. Blu-ray.com is the one in-the-wrong here. There article was published based on our calendar we sent out, and they did not confer with us before publishing. It will be a 5-disc set in SteelBook that includes 12 Chaplin Mutuals. We are following up with Blu-ray.com presently to get it fixed. Let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks Again,

Josh Morrison

[WaverBoy]

I picked up the new Mutual DVD set. I have to say that I haven't seen these films look any better. I can't wait for the forthcoming Blu-Ray edition. The transfers are great, and I am also enjoying the new soundtracks.
For those of you that are curious about the "completeness" of the films, for the most part, we get more than we ever had. Unless it's simply the quality of the new transfers, I am detecting new source material for many of the films. I am a bit disappointed that the missing footage from the beginning of reel two of "Easy Street" was not located and included. I am also puzzled as to why "The Immigrant" does not contain additional material, especially since it is footage that some of us have seen, and is described in the recently released book on the Mutuals as well. I suppose that it is possible that they restricted source material to 35mm and were unable locate the scenes in that format. Minor quibbles aside, there is much to be happy about.
The Mutuals are what initially sparked my interest in Chaplin many years ago. It's so nice to have the films treated with such respect and care. Despite the above mentioned minor flaws, this is definitely a worthy purchase for the Chaplin fan, and an amazing representation of these classic films.

There's no new Mutual DVD set yet; the latest and greatest set isn't even finished yet according to David's comments above. So glad they've got (hopefully) scans coming of better elements on EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy. I hope this means that THE RINK's missing ending shot of Charlie falling off the car will be back at long last; this shot is known to exist, and was mentioned in the official synopsis in Michael Hayde's excellent book, but is for some reason not listed in the Alterations section at the end of the RINK chapter, though it's been MIA in every version I've seen. And, I also hope that the substantial missing footage from THE CURE and THE IMMIGRANT has been able to be reinstated; the latter originally included a long-missing vomit scene (!) that, again, exists, and is mentioned in the official synopsis in Hayde's book, but isn't listed in the Alterations section for that chapter.

Just a couple of pedantic hopes from this annoyingly hardcore Chaplin Mutuals fan. And one more last hope: that the films running at speeds other than 24fps in this Blu-ray set will be mastered at 1080i, not 1080p, so as to avoid jitter-motion artifacts.

Really looking forward to this!

[Salty Dog]

It will be a 5-disc box set in a steelcase. 2 Blu-Ray discs and 2 DVDs of the twelve comedies and a new documentary on Chaplin's beginnings and the restorations.

Ten of the films are as good as they are going to get. However, we are still awaiting (hoping for) new scans from better material of EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy, where the clocks apparently run on geologic time.

As Uncle Scrooge's secretary Miss Quackfaster used to say, we're quacking as fast as we can.

David Shepard

What scores will be used for these?

[antifrodis]

I picked up the new Mutual DVD set. I have to say that I haven't seen these films look any better. I can't wait for the forthcoming Blu-Ray edition. The transfers are great, and I am also enjoying the new soundtracks.
For those of you that are curious about the "completeness" of the films, for the most part, we get more than we ever had. Unless it's simply the quality of the new transfers, I am detecting new source material for many of the films. I am a bit disappointed that the missing footage from the beginning of reel two of "Easy Street" was not located and included. I am also puzzled as to why "The Immigrant" does not contain additional material, especially since it is footage that some of us have seen, and is described in the recently released book on the Mutuals as well. I suppose that it is possible that they restricted source material to 35mm and were unable locate the scenes in that format. Minor quibbles aside, there is much to be happy about.
The Mutuals are what initially sparked my interest in Chaplin many years ago. It's so nice to have the films treated with such respect and care. Despite the above mentioned minor flaws, this is definitely a worthy purchase for the Chaplin fan, and an amazing representation of these classic films.

There's no new Mutual DVD set yet; the latest and greatest set isn't even finished yet according to David's comments above. So glad they've got (hopefully) scans coming of better elements on EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy. I hope this means that THE RINK's missing ending shot of Charlie falling off the car will be back at long last; this shot is known to exist, and was mentioned in the official synopsis in Michael Hayde's excellent book, but is for some reason not listed in the Alterations section at the end of the RINK chapter, though it's been MIA in every version I've seen. And, I also hope that the substantial missing footage from THE CURE and THE IMMIGRANT has been able to be reinstated; the latter originally included a long-missing vomit scene (!) that, again, exists, and is mentioned in the official synopsis in Hayde's book, but isn't listed in the Alterations section for that chapter.

Just a couple of pedantic hopes from this annoyingly hardcore Chaplin Mutuals fan. And one more last hope: that the films running at speeds other than 24fps in this Blu-ray set will be mastered at 1080i, not 1080p, so as to avoid jitter-motion artifacts.

Really looking forward to this!

There's no new DVD set yet? Well I wonder what it is that I purchased? I do, indeed, have the new Mutuals DVD set containing these recent restorations. David is referring to further alterations that will hopefully be made to the Blu-Ray version of the set before it is released. I will be purchasing that as well, once it becomes available. The set I have was released back in November 2013. Order one for yourself if still doubt me. http://www.amazon.fr/La-Naissance-Charl ... lot+mutual" target="_blank

[sc1957]

Just a couple of pedantic hopes from this annoyingly hardcore Chaplin Mutuals fan. And one more last hope: that the films running at speeds other than 24fps in this Blu-ray set will be mastered at 1080i, not 1080p, so as to avoid jitter-motion artifacts.

Is it even possible to include 1080i material and 1080p material on the same disc?

[MikeH0714]

There's no new Mutual DVD set yet; the latest and greatest set isn't even finished yet according to David's comments above. So glad they've got (hopefully) scans coming of better elements on EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy. I hope this means that THE RINK's missing ending shot of Charlie falling off the car will be back at long last; this shot is known to exist, and was mentioned in the official synopsis in Michael Hayde's excellent book, but is for some reason not listed in the Alterations section at the end of the RINK chapter, though it's been MIA in every version I've seen. And, I also hope that the substantial missing footage from THE CURE and THE IMMIGRANT has been able to be reinstated; the latter originally included a long-missing vomit scene (!) that, again, exists, and is mentioned in the official synopsis in Hayde's book, but isn't listed in the Alterations section for that chapter.

There is a set available in France and Italy, but it doesn't contain "the latest and greatest" for THE RINK and EASY STREET, as David mentioned. The US Blu-ray release is expected to correct that. Bear in mind, though: the purpose of this project was to use prints struck from original camera negative after a worldwide archive search. So footage you've seen that comes from 16mm Kodascope or 9.5mm Pathebaby prints isn't going to be there unless they found the corresponding original 35mm elements... as they appear to have done with THE CURE, which is absolutely the most complete version I've ever seen (screened last month at Film Forum).

They've also tried to stick to A-negative (domestic) material exclusively, except when absolutely necessary to replace a few trims and lost shots. However, they didn't wish to create "new" versions by combining A & B shots that were never joined in official release anywhere in the world. (Presumably the lesser-gauge material came in handy as reference for this.)

Michael J. Hayde

[Phototone]

Just a couple of pedantic hopes from this annoyingly hardcore Chaplin Mutuals fan. And one more last hope: that the films running at speeds other than 24fps in this Blu-ray set will be mastered at 1080i, not 1080p, so as to avoid jitter-motion artifacts.

Is it even possible to include 1080i material and 1080p material on the same disc?

Yes, it is certainly possible to have 1080i and 1080p material, also 24fps and 30fps on the same blu-ray disc, your TV may blank out for a brief moment while it recalibrates itself to the different incoming signal.

[sc1957]

Just a couple of pedantic hopes from this annoyingly hardcore Chaplin Mutuals fan. And one more last hope: that the films running at speeds other than 24fps in this Blu-ray set will be mastered at 1080i, not 1080p, so as to avoid jitter-motion artifacts.

Is it even possible to include 1080i material and 1080p material on the same disc?

... your TV may blank out for a brief moment while it recalibrates itself to the different incoming signal.

Why would I want my TV to do that?

[WaverBoy]

I picked up the new Mutual DVD set. I have to say that I haven't seen these films look any better. I can't wait for the forthcoming Blu-Ray edition. The transfers are great, and I am also enjoying the new soundtracks.
For those of you that are curious about the "completeness" of the films, for the most part, we get more than we ever had. Unless it's simply the quality of the new transfers, I am detecting new source material for many of the films. I am a bit disappointed that the missing footage from the beginning of reel two of "Easy Street" was not located and included. I am also puzzled as to why "The Immigrant" does not contain additional material, especially since it is footage that some of us have seen, and is described in the recently released book on the Mutuals as well. I suppose that it is possible that they restricted source material to 35mm and were unable locate the scenes in that format. Minor quibbles aside, there is much to be happy about.
The Mutuals are what initially sparked my interest in Chaplin many years ago. It's so nice to have the films treated with such respect and care. Despite the above mentioned minor flaws, this is definitely a worthy purchase for the Chaplin fan, and an amazing representation of these classic films.

There's no new Mutual DVD set yet; the latest and greatest set isn't even finished yet according to David's comments above. So glad they've got (hopefully) scans coming of better elements on EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy. I hope this means that THE RINK's missing ending shot of Charlie falling off the car will be back at long last; this shot is known to exist, and was mentioned in the official synopsis in Michael Hayde's excellent book, but is for some reason not listed in the Alterations section at the end of the RINK chapter, though it's been MIA in every version I've seen. And, I also hope that the substantial missing footage from THE CURE and THE IMMIGRANT has been able to be reinstated; the latter originally included a long-missing vomit scene (!) that, again, exists, and is mentioned in the official synopsis in Hayde's book, but isn't listed in the Alterations section for that chapter.

Just a couple of pedantic hopes from this annoyingly hardcore Chaplin Mutuals fan. And one more last hope: that the films running at speeds other than 24fps in this Blu-ray set will be mastered at 1080i, not 1080p, so as to avoid jitter-motion artifacts.

Really looking forward to this!

There's no new DVD set yet? Well I wonder what it is that I purchased? I do, indeed, have the new Mutuals DVD set containing these recent restorations. David is referring to further alterations that will hopefully be made to the Blu-Ray version of the set before it is released. I will be purchasing that as well, once it becomes available. The set I have was released back in November 2013. Order one for yourself if still doubt me. http://www.amazon.fr/La-Naissance-Charl ... lot+mutual" target="_blank" target="_blank

I apologize, I didn't realize there was an import set containing most of the recent restorations. I sit corrected!

But, as the Blu-ray set will contain further additions, and will be in better visual quality due to the increased resolution and no PAL-to-NTSC conversion needed on my end, I'magonna wait for that.

[WaverBoy]

There's no new Mutual DVD set yet; the latest and greatest set isn't even finished yet according to David's comments above. So glad they've got (hopefully) scans coming of better elements on EASY STREET and THE RINK from Italy. I hope this means that THE RINK's missing ending shot of Charlie falling off the car will be back at long last; this shot is known to exist, and was mentioned in the official synopsis in Michael Hayde's excellent book, but is for some reason not listed in the Alterations section at the end of the RINK chapter, though it's been MIA in every version I've seen. And, I also hope that the substantial missing footage from THE CURE and THE IMMIGRANT has been able to be reinstated; the latter originally included a long-missing vomit scene (!) that, again, exists, and is mentioned in the official synopsis in Hayde's book, but isn't listed in the Alterations section for that chapter.

There is a set available in France and Italy, but it doesn't contain "the latest and greatest" for THE RINK and EASY STREET, as David mentioned. The US Blu-ray release is expected to correct that. Bear in mind, though: the purpose of this project was to use prints struck from original camera negative after a worldwide archive search. So footage you've seen that comes from 16mm Kodascope or 9.5mm Pathebaby prints isn't going to be there unless they found the corresponding original 35mm elements... as they appear to have done with THE CURE, which is absolutely the most complete version I've ever seen (screened last month at Film Forum).

They've also tried to stick to A-negative (domestic) material exclusively, except when absolutely necessary to replace a few trims and lost shots. However, they didn't wish to create "new" versions by combining A & B shots that were never joined in official release anywhere in the world. (Presumably the lesser-gauge material came in handy as reference for this.)

Michael J. Hayde

Thanks for the clarification, Michael; really excited to see these, especially THE CURE, and fingers crossed that THE RINK, THE IMMIGRANT, and the rest will be mostly complete at last as well. Regarding the reticence to create "new" versions combining A & B shots that were never originally together, that's an absolutely sound decision of course. However, it would be a great pity if they could have used 16mm elements to restore sections missing in 35mm, but didn't. I'm glad the restorers behind TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE didn't take that tack; ditto for METROPOLIS.

Regarding the original Lone Star/Mutual opening title sequences, of which David says no examples are known to exist, thus these can't be restored in the proper style because nobody knows what they originally looked like, I could have sworn that Doug Sulpy had a chunk of one of the Mutuals with original opening titles, which he used to guide some of his personal restorations. I may be misremembering though.

[antifrodis]

I apologize, I didn't realize there was an import set containing most of the recent restorations. I sit corrected!

But, as the Blu-ray set will contain further additions, and will be in better visual quality due to the increased resolution and no PAL-to-NTSC conversion needed on my end, I'magonna wait for that.

In my case, I was just too anxious to see these films to wait. Again, these restorations are a clear improvement in many cases. I am also enjoying many of the new soundtracks. The orchestral soundtrack for "The Vagabond" is my favorite so far. I also REALLY appreciated the reproduced Van Beuren score for The Pawnshop. Although I do wish that the Van Beuren Pawnshop soundtrack was recreated 100%. I'm guessing the songs substituted were due to copyright issues. I particularly LOVED the opening music sequence from the Van Beuren Pawnshop and it's been replaced.

WaverBoy, please check your PMs on this site. I sent you one. Thanks!

[WaverBoy]

Antifrodis, check your PMs!

[Phototone]

artifacts.

Is it even possible to include 1080i material and 1080p material on the same disc?

... your TV may blank out for a brief moment while it recalibrates itself to the different incoming signal.[/quote]

Why would I want my TV to do that?[/quote]

Huh? It's not a matter of "want". Its just what TV's do (some TV's). I have a big Mitsubishi rear-projection HD TV and when switching from Standard def to High-def channels it goes blank just for a brief moment while it switches scanning ratios. I have a DLP projector and it also goes blank when switching from 24fp and 30fp material on a given blu-ray disc. its not a big deal, and maybe not all gear does this. Just going by my experience.