ENCHANTMENT first glimpse

[Gagman 66]

Ed,

So how can we find out what the quality is of each title? I'm sure we are limited to stuff that is already safety copied. Nothing that is still Nitrate. I was thinking about the Wallace Reid, Lois Wilson picture VALLEY OF THE GIANTS (1919) I believe. One of the films repatriated from Russia in 2010. I thought about it because they are screening the 1927 remake with Milton Sills which I didn't even know had survived, on May 3rd in Los Angeles. And what is the copyright status of the remake? Is it still held by Warner's or was it allowed to lapse? IRENE seems to be under-copyright, but if it isn't that would be a great project, assuming the LOC has nice materials. I would like to know if there is better surviving footage of the Technicolor Fashion Show?

[drednm]

Valley of the Giants might be a good choice. At least we know it's PD.....

[Brooksie]

I think we all owe Ed a BIG "thank you" for taking the initiative, as well as his time and effort, in doing this. Many of us talk about doing something like this, but few of us get off our lazy butts to do anything about it, waiting for things to come to us instead. So.....thanks again, Ed, and I hope that this will be just the first to come, if you're willing to repeat the process.

It would be the height of bad taste for someone else to dupe the DVD and offer it elsewhere, especially for sale at a profit. Nevertheless, it will probably happen.

You said it, Danny. This whole exercise has been a very interesting and informative one. Thanks for taking the initiative, Ed.

[BGM]

I got my dvd yesterday. Wow what a treat! Thanks Ed for all of your work. I am looking forward to supporting the next project!

[drednm]

Thanks all.....

I finally got to sit down and watch the whole film tonight. Loved it. Donald Sosin's music was just right and brought it all to life.

The film itself was beautifully designed (by James Urban) and shot. The "stage" portion of the film was magical. Marion was excellent. She rarely played this type of character, so it was interesting to see her play a vain and rather harsh character (who of course softens). She more often played the underdog, the sympathetic one, the comic. Forrest Stanley was also very good as Ernie. Edith Shayne and Tom Lewis were solid as the parents as was Corinne Barker as Nalia the hostess.

I now envision the film with tinting for the various staged portions. I think that would be a nice touch. Of course there also needs to be a menu page preceding the opening credits and a cast list. There just wasn't time.

[NotSoSilent]

I am connected to the Internet in-flight, on my way home. My wife said the DVD arrived yesterday. Upon arriving at home, I plan on kissing my wife and daughter and then checking out this film. I have been so excited to see it. Thank you again, Ed, for handling this!

[bobfells]

In the process of doing a review of ENCHANTMENT, here are some screen caps I took near the beginning of the film. The quality speaks for itself. Thank you, Ed!!

[entredeuxguerres]

What, by the way, is the "birthday gift" in the 2nd frame? Only thing I could imagine it might be was a table lighter & cigarette holder. (That hat did nothing for her, but I liked all the others.)

[Christopher Jacobs]

The Wallace Reid version of VALLEY OF THE GIANTS was released in 1919, and was the second film to play at our only surviving downtown theatre after it opened late that year (still operating after closing as a first-run movie house in 1994 and reopening as a performing arts center in 1998). The 1927 Milton Sills version is quite good (it's been shown at several conventions over the past decade or two) but I'd love to see the original, especially for that local connection. If the 1919 version of VALLEY OF THE GIANTS at LOC is complete (or easy to restore by freeze-framing flash-titles), that is one I would definitely want to get hold of.

I'll admit that from the first descriptions I wasn't originally that enthused about obtaining ENCHANTMENT, but seeing all the beautiful screen captures and rave reviews does make it sound much more enticing. Do you plan an extra run of DVDs for those who did not contribute to the initial kickstarter project?

[Gagman 66]

Ed,

Diane MacIntyre head of The Silents Majority group on Facebook, definitely wants copy and is willing to pay the Donor minimum or more for one of $25.00. She says she can be counted on to support the next project. By the way, did you sent a copy to Jorge? Was he a contributor? You never mentioned if he was or not? I'm going to try to get a hold of Rich Oliver and I think Jeff Codori already knows about it. Did Scott Cleveland make a donation? How about Ron Atkins or Angie Stout? These are people we can definitely count on. I was going to ask what it would cost to get a transfer of HIS HOUR done? but that is at the Museum Of Modern Art. Never the less, it's a film that needs to be rescued.

Christopher Jacobs,

OK, VALLEY OF THE GIANTS (1919) is not the Wallace Reid film that I was thinking of then from 1921 with Lois Wilson. What was the name of that picture? There was a short clip in very good condition posted in an interview on-line with a Train involved and timber tying in with the Gosfilmofond repatriations in 2010. Thanks.

[drednm]

Jeff, Diane has contacted me. Most of the other names are not familiar (as donors).

I had to scale back on the international donors. They got only a disk in a clamshell because international postage is so high. But then that's all I had mentioned in the original campaign description.

Unless there are donor restrictions, Wallace Reid's The Valley of the Giants (1919) sounds like a good candidate film. Alice Terry is also in it.

[bobfells]

At the risk of embarrassing Ed, I want to publicly thank him for his considerable help in my contacting the LOC to "free" one of the many silent films it holds but are out of circulation. On another site Ed challenged (in a friendly way) "What film have you freed from the LOC?" I accepted the challenge and applied to obtain a copy of THE DEVIL (1920), George Arliss's first film.

I have to credit the LOC staff with moving the application process along very quickly, I'm talking hours, not days or weeks. The estimated cost to copy from LOC's 35mm duplicate negative was $1,009. The only hitch was that I had to obtain permission from the donor, Larry Smith, but since I knew him from earlier years when he alerted me to the film, I felt that obtaining his permission was a minor detail. While waiting for him to answer my email, I enrolled in Kickstarter to start a fundraiser for the copying fee and actually got it approved and could launch it whenever I wanted. So far, the "Arliss Luck" as I call it seemed to be working as well as it did back in 2001 when I was researching/writing the GA bio and many, many things fell into place with total strangers, including Larry Smith, stepping up to help.

Before the end of the day - all of this activity happened in just one day - I heard back from Larry. The Arliss Luck was about to swing into high gear. Larry told me to save my money because he had just posted THE DEVIL on Youtube! He also said he was planning to issue this film on DVD himself. Of course I immediately announced the Youtube availability on various sites including here on N'ville. How's that for service!

Throughout all of this frantic activity I had peppered Ed Lorusso with many emails with many questions. Ed patiently answered all of my inquiries like the real pro that he is. Both of us were amazed that my quest ended so quickly and so successfully - and the price was right too! Thank you Ed!

[drednm]

I was glad to help, Bob.

I think I said WILL YOU, not HAVE YOU....

Now, Bob, you need to pick a new candidate for freedom....

[bobfells]

I was glad to help, Bob.

I think I said WILL YOU, not HAVE YOU....

Now, Bob, you need to pick a new candidate for freedom....

I'm thinking of a new candidate Ed, though I don't think I can beat my DEVIL record of getting the film out there in one day.

I'd might request the other Arliss silent, TWENTY DOLLARS A WEEK (1924) but there will be copyright issues that could complicate things and raise the cost of obtaining a copy. But as we found out with THE DEVIL, if you don't ask you won't find out!

[drednm]

I wish I had a clearer picture of what a copyright search would entail, say for a picture like Twenty Dollars a Week.

Aside from time and money, are we talking lawyers? Or are there "pros" who can do this??

[bobfells]

These days copyright searches can be done online and I may try that prior to contacting LOC. TWENTY DOLLARS A WEEK was copyrighted on March 29, 1924 by Distinctive Pictures, a company that was established just to make George Arliss films. If the Arliss Luck holds, the company dissolved and nobody renewed the copyright by 1952, or 28 years later. If it was renewed for a second 28 years then the changes in the 1978 Copyright Act means that the film is still under copyright today. A search should show whether it was renewed.

BTW, some years ago, i researched the copyright status of the two volumes of Arliss autobiographies. The first, UP THE YEARS FROM BLOOMSBURY, 1927, was renewed by GA's brother in 1955. The second, MY TEN YEARS IN THE STUDIOS, 1940, was not renewed and therefore should be in the public domain. As for BLOOMSBURY, i understand that 70 years after the death of the author, the work goes into PD. So that would be in 2017 given that Mr. A died in 1946.

[FrankFay]

What, by the way, is the "birthday gift" in the 2nd frame? Only thing I could imagine it might be was a table lighter & cigarette holder. (That hat did nothing for her, but I liked all the others.)

I'm pretty certain it is some kind of smoking set-

[Rodney]

These days copyright searches can be done online and I may try that prior to contacting LOC. TWENTY DOLLARS A WEEK was copyrighted on March 29, 1924 by Distinctive Pictures, a company that was established just to make George Arliss films. If the Arliss Luck holds, the company dissolved and nobody renewed the copyright by 1952, or 28 years later. If it was renewed for a second 28 years then the changes in the 1978 Copyright Act means that the film is still under copyright today. A search should show whether it was renewed.

BTW, some years ago, i researched the copyright status of the two volumes of Arliss autobiographies. The first, UP THE YEARS FROM BLOOMSBURY, 1927, was renewed by GA's brother in 1955. The second, MY TEN YEARS IN THE STUDIOS, 1940, was not renewed and therefore should be in the public domain. As for BLOOMSBURY, i understand that 70 years after the death of the author, the work goes into PD. So that would be in 2017 given that Mr. A died in 1946.

I found that someone -- bless his or her soul -- has scanned and put online the "Catalog of Copyright Entries." I've got the crucial set of "Music Renewals" volumes for items originally copyrighted between 1922 and 1930, and I'm guessing there's a volume for Motion Picture renewals. Also, the print copies exist in large libraries, and I've spent my time in the basement of Norlin up at the U of Colorado before the PDF versions became available.

[telical]

How about putting five or more together that are possible to do and set up a poll
on the site?

[Gagman 66]

How about putting five or more together that are possible to do and set up a poll
on the site?

I think this is an excellent idea. Maybe even 10 potential titles? Or at least 7. How about it?

[drednm]

It's very frustrating. On the new LOC film database it lists both When Knighthood Was in Flower (1922) and The Restless Sex (1920) as being in the LOC archive, but no search on any LOC library search engine brings up any information about these films.

[boblipton]

Gee, if only a Nitratevillain worked at the LoC o you could ask him to see if the reels were there but not listed through an accident, isn't it, Bruce?

Bob

[drednm]

Well it would seem one of the databases is wrong. I remember Rosemary telling me LOC has several INTERNAL databases so maybe that's the case. But I hate to bombard the librarian with questions about films they don't really have. I also couldn't find The Valley of the Giants (1919). Seems that should be in a database by now......

[Rodney]

How about putting five or more together that are possible to do and set up a poll
on the site?

Go ahead and put together the list if you like; but I'd say whoever is willing to do the work should just pick the movie they most want to work on. Someone else can pick a different one if they want, but should announce it here so they don't all end up producing the same titles...

[boblipton]

In general, I agree, Rodney, except I'd like the option to donate money to prevent someone from doing a Ham & Bud restoration.

Bob

[boblipton]

Instead of all of these increasingly unfocused discussions that will result in nothing being done, I suggest that anyone who is interested in doing a Kickstarter project to restore a picture decide what film he or she wishes to restore, contact the LoC to find out the costs, contact the the other people who would be involved and do it. If it turns out to be just the visuals or you insist on John Williams conducting the London Philharmonic playing his own original score, you can set the Kickstarter number at whatever that may be. If you get pledges for that number, you'll know that enough people approve. If not, then not.

The way things are going it looks like in about fifteen years those of us who are still alive and solvent will be offered a list of five hundred titles and numerous options on each of them. I will insist on something I can play on my Thaumatrope. Louis will insist on whatever technology is three derivations in the past and players for which are no longer available. As a result, nothing will be done then and we can continue to complain.

If you want something done, figure out specifically what you want to do and do it. Ben did it. Ed did it. I'm pretty sure it's not impossible.

Bob

[telical]

I nominate "The Stain" 1914. It was Theda Beras first film, as well
as one of the major films for Virginia Pearson, who was a big player
in the teens and stayed in the business doing supporting roles in major
films, including two with Chaney. It is one of only two or three surviving
films of Virginia Pearson in which she paid a major role.

As far as getting a list together, I think maybe have more discussions first
on what is possible, and maybe with more suggestions, some will gravitate
more to better and more important choices.

[boblipton]

I nominate "The Stain" 1914. It was Theda Beras first film, as well
as one of the major films for Virginia Pearson, who was a big player
in the teens and stayed in the business doing supporting roles in major
films, including two with Chaney. It is one of only two or three surviving
films of Virginia Pearson in which she paid a major role.

As far as getting a list together, I think maybe have more discussions first
on what is possible, and maybe with more suggestions, some will gravitate
more to better and more important choices.

Important? Better? Every month I get a notice that Grapevine has eight or so new dvds for sale. If I haven't seen it, I order it. I don't send Jack Hardy a note saying that a particular title isn't important enough and he should offer better films. Heck, if he offered a dozen new Ham & Buds directed by William Beaudine or half a dozen previously unreleased Al Joy films, I'd order them. I don't wonder if they're important or better. I'll look at Paulie Shore movies on tv. Last month I watched Rob Schneider in The Animal. The entire thing. Do you think I worry if a movie is important before I see it? Do I refuse to see it because I haven't seen another, better movie? No. I see what I can when I can within certain constraints of time and budget. I'm pretty sure you do the same, although if you passed up on The Animal, I wouldn't hold it against you.

Here's how it's going to work. Some one is going to get the urge to see a particular out-of-copyright film and do the work. There will be a Kickstarter project to fund it. People will contribute enough to do it or won't. Because some one will decide it's important and it would be better done than not done. And because enough people will want to see the movie to fund it. At that point your feeling that this movie is or isn't important enough or that it's awful that a better movie isn't available may have an effect: because that will determine whether you contribute to the Kickstarter project.

This is a case in which people should lead, follow or get out of the way. I urge you to do one.

Bob

[drednm]

I think the idea of nominating is valid up to a point. It gets some titles out in the open for consideration. But as Bob and others have noted, if X number of people vote for 5 or 10 different titles, then what? I can see maybe floating some titles to see where the donations might come from, but this really can't be done by committee. It still takes one person to push it through. Maybe a Kickstarter campaign can be set up by more than one person (I have no idea) but the money end of it thru Amazon and IRS reports need one name.

The starting point has to be finding out what LOC has. As I've noted, the various databases often contradict each other as to holdings, and the only way to find out for sure is to contact LOC with specific titles. You can't ask for Constance Binney titles or Thomas Meighan titles because they are title driven and they won't do that kind of search for you (maybe they will but it would take forever).

Anything involving copyright searches adds another entirely different level to the project.

Judging from the support for my project ... remember, it funded in ONE day ... my guess is that almost any complete film would find a support base. But again you have to know that LOC has it, that it's complete, that it's in good condition, and that there are no donor restrictions on it. If you don't have those 4 essentials, there's no point in revving up a Kickstarter campaign ... IMO.

Bob Fells started the process with a George Arliss film and got a response from LOC that same day. It's not really a difficult process, it's just that you have very little control over it. I've been lucky with my 2 purchases from LOC. Ben Model also seems to have good luck.

After you've located a good candidate at LOC, make sure you know what you want to produce for a finished product (music, tinting, or whatever) before you write your Kickstarter campaign because you can't change it once it's approved.

Enchantment took a few unexpected turns, but it all worked out. Bottom line was that from the day I decided to go for it to having the film in hand was only about 3 months. I'm very glad I pursued this.

[entredeuxguerres]

...I'm very glad I pursued this.

As are all who've seen (or will see) this picture.

With all you've learned, #3 should be a walk in the park. (Well, maybe.)