Arbuckle features

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Rodney
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Rodney » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:37 am

Smari1989 wrote:QUOTE:
goalieboy82 wrote:never got into Fatty Arbuckle for some reason (mainly its because of the whole thing with Virginia Rappe something will never know the whole story).
Well, it depends on what one means by "the whole story."
And, if it's any consolation, for his entire career outside of Maude Delmont's accusations, Arbuckle was one of the most generous, well-liked, and truly decent people in early Hollywood. And pretty funny.

His treatment of Buster Keaton: "Come along, I'm making a movie, you can be in it. See how this is done? You're funny! Here, have as much screen time as you need even if I'm not in the scene. Now that you know how it's done, you really should start your own series, you'll do great." Can you imagine Chaplin doing that for anyone?

The shame is that Arbuckle was forced out so early. His features do not generally compare well to Keaton's and Lloyd's, but remember that they were made years earlier at a time when a few years made a huge difference. Compare Arbuckle's features to The Saphead or other comedies of 1920, and he was doing very well. You can argue that his madcap style of humor wouldn't have done as well in features as Lloyd's and Keaton's more grounded routines, but really we can only imagine what he could have done by the late 1920s if his reputation hadn't been destroyed.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by boblipton » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:08 am

Rodney, I titled one of my reviews of one of Arbuckle's Keystones "Generosity : a Director's Virtue."

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Smari1989 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:52 am

QUOTE:
Rodney wrote: The shame is that Arbuckle was forced out so early. His features do not generally compare well to Keaton's and Lloyd's, but remember that they were made years earlier at a time when a few years made a huge difference. Compare Arbuckle's features to The Saphead or other comedies of 1920, and he was doing very well. You can argue that his madcap style of humor wouldn't have done as well in features as Lloyd's and Keaton's more grounded routines, but really we can only imagine what he could have done by the late 1920s if his reputation hadn't been destroyed.
Yes. The success of TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE in 1914-15 notwithstanding, few if any major producers believed a slapstick-oriented comedy could do well for five to six reels, prior to Chaplin's THE KID. Arbuckle's Paramount-features of 1920-21 are not really "his" films; at least not to the degree that his earlier shorts were. Had the scandal not happened, he might've been able to get out of the rather humiliating Paramount-contract eventually, and made features directed by himself...but, of course, we'll never know.

One thing I've wondered is, did Roscoe ever consider going to Europe after the scandal? His films appear to still have played in many European countries throughout the 1920s, once he was declared innocent. Of course the climate for slapstick movies was vastly different in France or the UK, and he would hardly have been able to make his own GOLD RUSH or GENERAL there, or receive the same amount of publicity that he once enjoyed...but still, he'd possibly have been allowed to appear in front of the camera, at least.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Paul E. Gierucki » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:08 pm

Unfortunately we are not currently in a position to discuss the entire line up.
Let me instead say this: There is a consortium working to secure all of the
titles that are appropriate to the collection -- and there are only a few wish
list items remaining.

No need to speculate, CineMuseum and its production partners are planning
to have this release and several others ready in time for the holidays.

As to the features, and Arbuckle's shift from slapstick to light comedy, he was
doing precisely what he wanted to do. You'll have to wait for this release (and
the bio) to find out why... but it won't be long.

PG

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by martin arias » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:16 am

Wonderful news! thanks!

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Jim Roots » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:58 am

Paul E. Gierucki wrote:You'll have to wait for this release (and
the bio) to find out why... but it won't be long.

PG
"And the bio"???

Jim

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Smari1989 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:54 pm

QUOTE:
Paul E. Gierucki wrote: As to the features, and Arbuckle's shift from slapstick to light comedy, he was
doing precisely what he wanted to do. You'll have to wait for this release (and
the bio) to find out why... but it won't be long.

PG
Well, this contradicts what I've read on Arbuckle's features previously, but just for that reason it's quite intriguing. I'm looking very much forward to these releases.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by WaverBoy » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:57 pm

Paul E. Gierucki wrote:Unfortunately we are not currently in a position to discuss the entire line up.
Let me instead say this: There is a consortium working to secure all of the
titles that are appropriate to the collection -- and there are only a few wish
list items remaining.

No need to speculate, CineMuseum and its production partners are planning
to have this release and several others ready in time for the holidays.

As to the features, and Arbuckle's shift from slapstick to light comedy, he was
doing precisely what he wanted to do. You'll have to wait for this release (and
the bio) to find out why... but it won't be long.

PG
This release AND SEVERAL OTHERS? And an upcoming Arbuckle bio. Good times ahead, folks! Paul, you're the man.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Mark Zimmer » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:16 pm

Before the holidays? That's excellent news. Very much looking forward to all this unseen Arbuckle.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by s.w.a.c. » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:10 am

Doesn't Buster have a cameo in The Round-Up? I recall reading that he appeared in Native American makeup and can be spotted doing a few falls here and there, kind of like Roscoe appearing in drag in Keaton's Go West.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Rodney » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:30 am

s.w.a.c. wrote:Doesn't Buster have a cameo in The Round-Up? I recall reading that he appeared in Native American makeup and can be spotted doing a few falls here and there, kind of like Roscoe appearing in drag in Keaton's Go West.
Yes -- I only saw The Round Up once about 14 years ago, but I remember a spectacular fall that made me think "that could only be Buster Keaton." Like the "woman" who falls in The Iron Mule.

And for the record, I'm not convinced about Go West... the big-boned woman doesn't really look like Roscoe to me.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Brooksie » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:36 am

Yes, Cinecon's audience spotted Buster. I didn't, I must admit - but I didn't realise I should have been looking out for him, either.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Smari1989 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:42 am

I mean to remember that Buster's cameo appearance in THE ROUND-UP is included in the Keaton-documentary A HARD ACT TO FOLLOW (don't recall which of the 3 parts, but probably at the end of the first or beginning of the second).

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Rollo Treadway » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:12 am

Smari1989 wrote:I mean to remember that Buster's cameo appearance in THE ROUND-UP is included in the Keaton-documentary A HARD ACT TO FOLLOW (don't recall which of the 3 parts, but probably at the end of the first or beginning of the second).
This is correct, a brief clip appears in episode 1, with the narration relating that Buster visited the set of The Round-Up in between making The High Sign and One Week.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by JLNeibaur » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:44 am

I have some info on the restoration of CAMPING OUT in my book ARBUCKLE AND KEATON: THEIR 14 FILM COLLABORATIONS (in a chapter called Roscoe Without Buster). I interviewed Elif Rongen-Kaynakci and SImona Monizza about it, and they were very helpful. I also include a period review of the short from Motion Picture. I hope to someday see that one also.

This Arbuckle set will be great, of course, and I am very much looking forward to finally seeing THE ROUND UP and LIFE OF THE PARTY.

JN

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Tommie Hicks » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:59 am

I have seen CAMPING OUT and IMHO it is the least funniest Comique of the bunch. A lot of vomit gags (no pun intended) included in this two reeler. It is also possible that the version I saw was not of Arbuckle's editing, but some else's subsequently.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Smari1989 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:17 am

QUOTE:
Tommie Hicks wrote:I have seen CAMPING OUT and IMHO it is the least funniest Comique of the bunch. A lot of vomit gags (no pun intended) included in this two reeler. It is also possible that the version I saw was not of Arbuckle's editing, but some else's subsequently.
I have not seen CAMPING OUT, but have read some other unfavorable comments on it. Like any comedian, Arbuckle had his ups and downs. Unlike many other comedians, however, Arbuckle fascinate me enough that I'll watch him in just about anything, even works that are supposed to be "lesser."

For what's it worth, I got to watch HIS WIFE'S MISTAKES recently, thanks to the Youtube-link provided earlier in this thread, and enjoyed it a lot. Not much of a story, but many funny gags. One thing I've come to recognize more and more recently, is how good Roscoe truly is as a performer; much like Chaplin, he'll frequently add a spontaneous (or seemingly spontaneous) blink to the audience or a lift with his hat, which greatly strengthen the effect of his gags. Even more than before, I've come to understand all the more just why audiences loved him so much. (I added this later point recently to my old review of the previous Arbuckle-set on Amazon. ;))

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Re: Any word on these Arbuckle features ?

Post by FrankFay » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:28 pm

Smari1989 wrote:
I don't know the answer to this, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. You'd have to go no farther back in time than the early 1900s to find one Dr. Henry Cotton believing that mental illness could be cured by removing the teeth of a patient; supposedly, infections in teeth could cause mental illness. What's more, his theories were apparently received with enthusiasm and applause from other professionals around the world for at least a few decades.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by The Blackbird » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:28 am

Some 33 years ago I stood in front of the house Arbuckle lived in in 1921 and I'll never forget reflecting on his whole tragic story. I feel like I've been waiting all my life to see these films. It's not quite accurate, but I have been waiting a good 35 years (and that's long enough) since first reading Arbuckle's story in THE DAY THE LAUGHTER STOPPED. Now, about four years ago there was a brief discussion here about that book and I read comments to the effect that it's a pack of lies. I innocently inquired for an elaboration of this view and a certain poster who shall remain nameless decided the one and only response to give to my question was an hilariously condescending "How long have you been on this board?" [The answer was two or three years and I had never noticed anything about the book's supposed fantasy content before.] Figuring I need this like a hole in the head, I left the thread and never looked at it again. In any case, Yallop's thesis still remains solid: Arbuckle didn't do squat. If this man ever laid an inappropriate finger on another human being in his entire life I have yet to hear about it and I'll champion his cause to the limit. I always wondered what happened to this Maude "Bambina" Delmont clown after her vaudeville tour, ripping down the curtain that covered Hollywood's debauchery. I remember reading a reference to someone of that name dying in 1926, which might explain it, but whenever she kicked off the fact she never testified in court, which is incredible in itself, tells you all you need to know. As for those who say all of Arbuckle's friends, starting with Keaton, kept "suspiciously" quiet during the trials, I am still waiting for them to explain just what the heck they could have done, aside of express their confidence he was innocent. I'm still wondering if the story of Arbuckle inadvertently catching Virginia Rappe in the abdomen with his knee when she drunkenly tickled him could not be true, as it would handily explain pretty much the whole thing, including her delirious "Roscoe hurt me" on her deathbed. Back to the upcoming films getting released, we've now seen the sound Vitaphone shorts come to DVD, and now three of those famous but virtually unseen starring features are being given a new lease on life. I can only hope sometime THE TRAVELLING SALESMAN, CRAZY TO MARRY and GASOLINE GUS will line up to follow... :D

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Frederica » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:30 pm

The Blackbird wrote:Some 33 years ago I stood in front of the house Arbuckle lived in in 1921 and I'll never forget reflecting on his whole tragic story. I feel like I've been waiting all my life to see these films. It's not quite accurate, but I have been waiting a good 35 years (and that's long enough) since first reading Arbuckle's story in THE DAY THE LAUGHTER STOPPED. Now, about four years ago there was a brief discussion here about that book and I read comments to the effect that it's a pack of lies. I innocently inquired for an elaboration of this view and a certain poster who shall remain nameless decided the one and only response to give to my question was an hilariously condescending "How long have you been on this board?" [The answer was two or three years and I had never noticed anything about the book's supposed fantasy content before.]
Actually, hon, that was me. And it was a serious question, not intended to be condescending; we'd discussed the issue at length before, so I thought I'd refer you to the previous discussion(s) rather than hash it out again. You didn't seem interested.
Figuring I need this like a hole in the head, I left the thread and never looked at it again. In any case, Yallop's thesis still remains solid: Arbuckle didn't do squat. If this man ever laid an inappropriate finger on another human being in his entire life I have yet to hear about it and I'll champion his cause to the limit. I always wondered what happened to this Maude "Bambina" Delmont clown after her vaudeville tour, ripping down the curtain that covered Hollywood's debauchery. I remember reading a reference to someone of that name dying in 1926, which might explain it, but whenever she kicked off the fact she never testified in court, which is incredible in itself, tells you all you need to know. As for those who say all of Arbuckle's friends, starting with Keaton, kept "suspiciously" quiet during the trials, I am still waiting for them to explain just what the heck they could have done, aside of express their confidence he was innocent. I'm still wondering if the story of Arbuckle inadvertently catching Virginia Rappe in the abdomen with his knee when she drunkenly tickled him could not be true, as it would handily explain pretty much the whole thing, including her delirious "Roscoe hurt me" on her deathbed.
So much here. Have you read Gregg Merritt's Room 1218? It's a more updated take on the case and far more accurate than either Yallop or Edmonds.

The story about the tickling comes from Andy Edmunds, who got it from Joe Rock. Why you would ask Joe Rock about what happened at that party is beyond me, but there you have it. You can believe or disbelieve me, but if that story is true there are some problems. Arbuckle did not tell anyone he kicked Virginia Rappe, accidentally or otherwise, in the abdomen. Pretty sure her doctors would like to have known that, the knowledge may have saved her life. It also means Arbuckle was, in fact, guilty--he was tried for felony manslaughter, not for murder, and kicking someone and rupturing a major organ while you're committing a felony (that pesky alcohol again), and then not telling anyone about it, is pretty much felony manslaughter. It's always tickled me that Edmunds produces that story at the end of her book as if it was a rabbit pulled out of her hat--she seems to have so little comprehension of what the charges and trial were about she was clueless as to what she was really saying.

Arbuckle did not testify to this. So if the story is true, he was not only guilty, he perjured himself. I think the story is a crock.

As to The Round Up. I was kind of taken aback by it. I realize Arbuckle was newly working in features and that he was trying to extend himself beyond pure slapstick, but in RU he was shunted off stage for lengthy periods and the character he played was a sad sack--he was never a sad sack in his shorts. They are wonderfully anarchic, and Arbuckle always gets the girl! (or Luke, as the case may be). I'll have to see more of the features.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Rodney » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:55 pm

Frederica wrote:As to The Round Up. I was kind of taken aback by it. I realize Arbuckle was newly working in features and that he was trying to extend himself beyond pure slapstick, but in RU he was shunted off stage for lengthy periods and the character he played was a sad sack--he was never a sad sack in his shorts. They are wonderfully anarchic, and Arbuckle always gets the girl! (or Luke, as the case may be). I'll have to see more of the features.
I've only seen one other of Arbuckle's features, but he's no sad sack in Leap Year -- in fact, he's considered highly desirable, which (combined with a speech impediment) leaves him engaged to three different women, none of whom are the one he wants.

Now, Leap Year was adapted from a play, so it's natural that his physique (which he seems ashamed of in The Round Up) doesn't enter into the plot, the plot having been written for a different actor.

From the descriptions I've read, he's not a sad sack in the other features either, so I expect The Round Up to be an outlier. I am hoping to see more soon, like the rest of us.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Brooksie » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:15 pm

Frederica wrote:As to The Round Up. I was kind of taken aback by it. I realize Arbuckle was newly working in features and that he was trying to extend himself beyond pure slapstick, but in RU he was shunted off stage for lengthy periods and the character he played was a sad sack--he was never a sad sack in his shorts. They are wonderfully anarchic, and Arbuckle always gets the girl! (or Luke, as the case may be). I'll have to see more of the features.
The more I've looked into it, the more it seems to me that Arbuckle's casting in The Round Up was what's now referred to a 'stunt casting', in a way that would have been much more evident to audiences of the time than it is to us. The sheriff character was the Falstaff of the piece (or, to look at it another way, the Steve Urkell) - the character who, for whatever reason, struck a chord with the audience despite their lack of involvement in the main action, while the 'nobody loves a fat man' line became the 'Hasta la vista, baby' of its day. They used it in political cartoons, advertising posters, comic strips, novelty postcards, badges ... if it were today, it'd be on a bumper sticker. You get the idea.

Even though Arbuckle was playing against type, the idea of film's most famous fat man playing theatre's most famous fat man and delivering that particular line would not only have made a lot of sense to audiences of 1920, but they may have considered it strange that the role go to anyone else.

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Macklyn Arbuckle The Round-Up

Post by JFK » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:16 pm

ImageImage
Self Portrait and Walter O'Loughlin
Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macklyn_Arbuckle
"In the 1920s Arbuckle appeared often with Marion Davies in lavish costume motion picture productions financed by William Randolph Hearst. Arbuckle is remembered for the line "Nobody loves a fat man," when he played the character Sheriff "Slim" Hoover in the play The Roundup."
Last edited by JFK on Sun May 27, 2018 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Smari1989 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:39 am

As far as I understand, the Arbuckle-biographies by David Yallop and Andy Edmonds are indeed filled with errors (I haven't read either one in their entirety). One Stuart Oderman wrote another book which made, as far as I can tell, an honorable attempt to get the story reasonably right (I've read that one, and reviewed it on Amazon), and wins points by trying to be a more thorough biography not focusing on the scandal in particular, but it arguably relied too heavily on the memories of Minta Durfee, whose recollections often should be taken with a grain of salt. It's revealed in this thread by Mr. Gierucki that a new Arbuckle-bio is in the works; I look very much forward to it.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by The Blackbird » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:59 am

Frederica wrote:
The Blackbird wrote:Some 33 years ago I stood in front of the house Arbuckle lived in in 1921 and I'll never forget reflecting on his whole tragic story. I feel like I've been waiting all my life to see these films. It's not quite accurate, but I have been waiting a good 35 years (and that's long enough) since first reading Arbuckle's story in THE DAY THE LAUGHTER STOPPED. Now, about four years ago there was a brief discussion here about that book and I read comments to the effect that it's a pack of lies. I innocently inquired for an elaboration of this view and a certain poster who shall remain nameless decided the one and only response to give to my question was an hilariously condescending "How long have you been on this board?" [The answer was two or three years and I had never noticed anything about the book's supposed fantasy content before.]
Actually, hon, that was me. And it was a serious question, not intended to be condescending; we'd discussed the issue at length before, so I thought I'd refer you to the previous discussion(s) rather than hash it out again. You didn't seem interested.
Figuring I need this like a hole in the head, I left the thread and never looked at it again. In any case, Yallop's thesis still remains solid: Arbuckle didn't do squat. If this man ever laid an inappropriate finger on another human being in his entire life I have yet to hear about it and I'll champion his cause to the limit. I always wondered what happened to this Maude "Bambina" Delmont clown after her vaudeville tour, ripping down the curtain that covered Hollywood's debauchery. I remember reading a reference to someone of that name dying in 1926, which might explain it, but whenever she kicked off the fact she never testified in court, which is incredible in itself, tells you all you need to know. As for those who say all of Arbuckle's friends, starting with Keaton, kept "suspiciously" quiet during the trials, I am still waiting for them to explain just what the heck they could have done, aside of express their confidence he was innocent. I'm still wondering if the story of Arbuckle inadvertently catching Virginia Rappe in the abdomen with his knee when she drunkenly tickled him could not be true, as it would handily explain pretty much the whole thing, including her delirious "Roscoe hurt me" on her deathbed.
So much here. Have you read Gregg Merritt's Room 1218? It's a more updated take on the case and far more accurate than either Yallop or Edmonds.

The story about the tickling comes from Andy Edmunds, who got it from Joe Rock. Why you would ask Joe Rock about what happened at that party is beyond me, but there you have it. You can believe or disbelieve me, but if that story is true there are some problems. Arbuckle did not tell anyone he kicked Virginia Rappe, accidentally or otherwise, in the abdomen. Pretty sure her doctors would like to have known that, the knowledge may have saved her life. It also means Arbuckle was, in fact, guilty--he was tried for felony manslaughter, not for murder, and kicking someone and rupturing a major organ while you're committing a felony (that pesky alcohol again), and then not telling anyone about it, is pretty much felony manslaughter. It's always tickled me that Edmunds produces that story at the end of her book as if it was a rabbit pulled out of her hat--she seems to have so little comprehension of what the charges and trial were about she was clueless as to what she was really saying.

Arbuckle did not testify to this. So if the story is true, he was not only guilty, he perjured himself. I think the story is a crock.

As to The Round Up. I was kind of taken aback by it. I realize Arbuckle was newly working in features and that he was trying to extend himself beyond pure slapstick, but in RU he was shunted off stage for lengthy periods and the character he played was a sad sack--he was never a sad sack in his shorts. They are wonderfully anarchic, and Arbuckle always gets the girl! (or Luke, as the case may be). I'll have to see more of the features.
Well, of course I know it was you, er, hon. On the contrary, I was clearly very interested. That's why I had asked the question. Well, anyway, now my question is when will the other Roscoe-directed feature SPECIAL DELIVERY be dusted off and released?

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by FrankFay » Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:46 am

Smari1989 wrote:As far as I understand, the Arbuckle-biographies by David Yallop and Andy Edmonds are indeed filled with errors (I haven't read either one in their entirety). One Stuart Oderman wrote another book which made, as far as I can tell, an honorable attempt to get the story reasonably right (I've read that one, and reviewed it on Amazon), and wins points by trying to be a more thorough biography not focusing on the scandal in particular, but it arguably relied too heavily on the memories of Minta Durfee, whose recollections often should be taken with a grain of salt. It's revealed in this thread by Mr. Gierucki that a new Arbuckle-bio is in the works; I look very much forward to it.
The Yallop book is packed with errors, but I give it a point for being Pro-Arbuckle and going against the rape story. It was a small but positive step.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Mark Zimmer » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:10 pm

For the benefit of those confused when they try to seek it out, Merritt's book is entitled Room 1219, not Room 1218.

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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by dede » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:09 am

Mark Zimmer wrote:For the benefit of those confused when they try to seek it out, Merritt's book is entitled Room 1219, not Room 1218.

I understand that Room 1218 is the prequel.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by Frederica » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:02 pm

Mark Zimmer wrote:For the benefit of those confused when they try to seek it out, Merritt's book is entitled Room 1219, not Room 1218.
Whoops!! You are right, Room 1219. Worth reading.
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Re: Arbuckle features

Post by The Blackbird » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:16 pm

Of course, Lloyd Haines is in Room 222 and Marla Gibbs is in Room 227.

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