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Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:15 pm
by dalefullerfan2014
"Woman of Affairs" has a very beautiful original soundtrack.
Randy
PS,
And of course the music track for "Sunrise" is also very good.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:28 pm
by dalefullerfan2014
I've seen "Woman of Affairs" with its original soundtrack a couple of times over the years. I prefer it to Carl Davis's score.
Randy
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:30 pm
by Frame Rate
dalefullerfan2014 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:28 pm
I've seen "Woman of Affairs" with its original soundtrack a couple of times over the years. I prefer it to Carl Davis's score.
Randy
Was that an archival screening of a preservation print with the original Movietone score?
Long before the Carl Davis/Photoplay score was created for the film there was also an "intermediate," needle-drop (from a stock library) score, reportedly assembled back in the 1970s at Chicago's WTTW/PBS TV station (as a contracted assignment for Gold Key syndicators) -- and that score never did take up residence as an optical track on an actual set of film reels, only on analog/quad/NTSC videotape.
In all, there were 13 MGM silents included in Gold Key's "Film Classics Package" -- which (until the underlying lease expired) was offered to local TV stations as a rival (or supplementary) package to the two seasons of Paul Killiam's "The Silent Years" which ran in many markets (mostly on public stations) at the time. Contrary to frequent references made here and elsewhere, neither series was an official PBS network offering.
When Gold Key's rights to the package expired, the music-scored video masters reverted to MGM/UA, and following the historic Turner acquisition of UA's huge, pre-1950 theatrical library, TNT (and later TCM) began to include them in regular programming.
Over time, some of those needle-drop tracks were retired by Turner in favor of newly commissioned, original scores and re-mastered-image transfers, but others have survived, across the decades -- all the way to home-video inclusion, first on VHS cassettes and laserdiscs, then more recently on both pressed and MOD DVDs.
Here's the complete Gold Key package:
THE BIG PARADE
THE CROWD
FLESH AND THE DEVIL
HE WHO GETS SLAPPED
LOVE
THE MONSTER
MYSTERIOUS LADY
OUR DANCING DAUGHTERS
THE SCARLET LETTER
THE TEMPTRESS
THE UNHOLY THREE
WEST OF ZANZIBAR
A WOMAN OF AFFAIRS
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:05 pm
by dalefullerfan2014
Both times I saw "Woman of Affairs" theatrically was at The Pacific Film Archive in Berkeley. Once in the late eighties and once in the 1990's. The print was 35mm with the original MovieTone track. Ditto for the time I saw "The Wind". Another MovieTone score I enjoy is for "What Price Glory?" which I saw once on AMC sometime in the 1990's. The score for that nine minute segment of "The Divine Woman" which turned up in the nineties which I presume is the original MovieTone track is also very nice. I also enjoy one of the Vitaphone scores for "Divine Lady". I believe there were(are?) two.
Randy
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:12 pm
by wich2
dalefullerfan2014 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:15 pm
"Woman of Affairs" has a very beautiful original soundtrack.
Randy
PS,
And of course the music track for "Sunrise" is also very good.
Agreed.
And the music/sfx tracks for KING OF KINGS and WILD ORCHIDS work well.
- Craig
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:12 am
by T0m M
Does anybody know if these are new scans or if they're just using the old LD masters? That will be my prime consideration, given that I already have the LD editions. Personally, I'm more excited over the MOD-DVD release of The Mysterious Island.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:00 pm
by Brooksie
T0m M wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:12 am
Does anybody know if these are new scans or if they're just using the old LD masters? That will be my prime consideration, given that I already have the LD editions. Personally, I'm more excited over the MOD-DVD release of The Mysterious Island.
Keep in mind absolutely nothing has been announced yet. As stated in the first post in this thread, the rep said it would happen at some point. It could be days, months or years before we see any of these releases. Anything else is speculation for now.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:15 pm
by Nick_M
A better title for this thread would be, "THE CROWD and THE WIND still not coming from Warner Archive"
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:15 pm
by Paul Penna
Nick_M wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:15 pm
A better title for this thread would be, "THE CROWD and THE WIND still not coming from Warner Archive"
Well, their taking their time might bode well for them perhaps making new transfers.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:06 pm
by dennman6
Paul Penna wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:15 pm
Nick_M wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:15 pm
A better title for this thread would be, "THE CROWD and THE WIND still not coming from Warner Archive"
Looking on the bright side, at least Warner Archive hasn't broken Wind IN The Crowd...
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:09 pm
by andybenz
dalefullerfan2014 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:05 pm
The score for that nine minute segment of "The Divine Woman" which turned up in the nineties which I presume is the original MovieTone track is also very nice.
I don't think there was a Movietone track for "The divine woman". Since the surviving fragment came from Russia I doubt that the Russian print would have had any soundtrack at all. Carl Davis has written a new score for the fragment. Maybe there is also a needledrop score for this.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:51 am
by dalefullerfan2014
Could be. It sure does sound like what you would think the original score would sound like. I just don't know.
Randy
PS,
This is about the fragment from Garbo's "Divine Woman"
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:10 pm
by dalefullerfan2014
I just watched that fragment from "Divine Woman" once again. If that is a Carl Davis score it's very well done. His music for the little bit of "The Covered Wagon" that's in the Hollywood series is also very good. I wonder if he's written a complete score for "The Covered Wagon"?
Randy
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:26 pm
by Frame Rate
dalefullerfan2014 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:10 pm
I just watched that fragment from "Divine Woman" once again. If that is a Carl Davis score it's very well done. His music for the little bit of "The Covered Wagon" that's in the Hollywood series is also very good. I wonder if he's written a complete score for "The Covered Wagon"?
Randy
According to his website Mr. Davis has composed more than fifty silent-film scores (both shorts and features) but THE COVERED WAGON is not on the list:
http://carldaviscollection.com/silent-film-catalogue/
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:23 am
by Jim Roots
dennman6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:06 pm
Paul Penna wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:15 pm
Nick_M wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:15 pm
A better title for this thread would be, "THE CROWD and THE WIND still not coming from Warner Archive"
Looking on the bright side, at least Warner Archive hasn't broken Wind IN The Crowd...
Welcome to NitrateVille, sir!
Jim
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:35 pm
by colbyco82
Has anyone purchased the new WOMAN OF AFFAIRS DVD? I'm curious as to which music score was used.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:43 am
by Roscoe
I got the WOMAN OF AFFAIRS dvd, and it sounds like an orchestral score, probably the Carl Davis score, was used. I haven't had a chance to watch it straight through, but it looks like they just dumped the old laserdisc master onto DVD.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:35 am
by Battra92
Mitch Farish wrote: ↑Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:33 am
Hope they get a blu-ray release. They're important films, and it would be nice to see the WA premier them as the first silent WA blu-rays. I'd snap them up as soon as they came out.
I'd definitely buy a Blu-Ray release. I know mastering costs more and everything but for me, just having a BD is always preferable to a DVD.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 am
by Dean Thompson
Roscoe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:43 am
I got the WOMAN OF AFFAIRS dvd, and it sounds like an orchestral score, probably the Carl Davis score, was used. I haven't had a chance to watch it straight through, but it looks like they just dumped the old laserdisc master onto DVD.
I've not seen the laserdisc, but I watched the DVD last night and concur it's the Davis score composed for the Photoplay edition; at least it's what I remember from the VHS release of the early '90's, which credited Davis and the English Chamber Orchestra at the end. The print has not been restored, but the image is nicely detailed and balanced, if occasionally on the soft side. The only oops moment, and a jarring one at that, comes at the film's conclusion, after (
spoiler alert) Lewis Stone takes Garbo's hat from the wreckage of her car: there's what I presume is an insert directed either to the editor or to the projectionist--"Fade Out"--before The End and Leo the Lion wrap things up. Someone really should have corrected that glitch for this release.
Still, it's good to have this Garbo (my favorite of her silents) on DVD at last, even in imperfect form. I'm happy for those who will get to see it in 35mm at the TCM Festival next month.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:19 am
by Frame Rate
A Spanish video publisher called "Llamentol," <
www.llamentol.com> listed as headquartered in Barcelona, is credited on what appears to be a commercially released DVD of Sjostrom's THE WIND/EL VIENTO (bearing a 2012 copyright notice).
Nowhere on the packaging, disc label or screen image is there any mention of Turner Entertainment, Warner Home Video, Photoplay Productions, Kevin Brownlow or Carl Davis, (although his score is heard) and the picture's lack of sharpness strongly suggests the (pressed, not MOD) DVD is a transfer of a VHS recording. A search of the company's website finds no current listing for this title.
Simple piracy?
A forged, mislabeled/unauthorized release, wrongfully blaming a legitimate Spanish company?
A short-lived, genuine release by (via some deceitful, middleman-type agency who once conned the publisher) whose availability in the marketplace may have been cut short by a cease-and-desist order from Turner?
Or some sort of legal, foreign licensing arrangement that Turner later backed out of.
Whaddya think???
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:08 am
by s.w.a.c.
Llamentol seems to have a lot of titles from major Hollywood studios, on DVD and blu-ray, you'd think they'd have been slapped with legal action if the releases weren't legit, if they're operating a website and selling their wares so publicly. Some of them are relatively recent, like Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures, so maybe it's possible they could license titles for Spanish sales only?
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:27 am
by M Verdoux
azjazzman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:12 pm
Frame Rate wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:27 pm
Does anyone here recall that the Carl Davis score for THE CROWD actually was heard with a different tempo (and in a different key) when it played on USA TCM versus when it was offered on NTSC VHS & LD by MGM Home Video?
I suspect that was due not simply to the running-time difference between PAL and NTSC recordings (since all stateside electronic presentations of the film were at the same video rate of 29.97 fps) but rather to the possibility that there were two separate video-conversions done (at different transfer and/or frame-conversion rates) from the PAL master tape -- which was initially created, at 25 fps, for Britain's Thames TV by Brownlow & Gill's Photoplay Productions.
I have always wondered why the running time of the LD of THE CROWD was significantly different (105m as I recall) from the TCM version (98m). You may have just explained why, since there are no missing scenes.
Kevin Brownlow always had very specific specifications as to what frame rates a given silent film should run - to the point of sometimes varying the speed - shot by shot - when creating video masters. THE CROWD was certainly one of these.
In the remastering of THE CROWD (a new transfer or scan), Turner/Warner clearly elected to run it at 24fps throughout - and do whatever it takes (time compression, editing, etc.) to make Davis' score fit the picture - while not even giving him on screen credit.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:45 pm
by SilentsPlease
Another possibility is that they would put The Wind and The Crowd on streaming, just like they did for Greed. The 4-hour version of Greed was put on iTunes 10 years ago with no fanfare.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:14 am
by Frame Rate
Dean Thompson wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 am
Roscoe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:43 am
I got the WOMAN OF AFFAIRS dvd, and it sounds like an orchestral score, probably the Carl Davis score, was used. I haven't had a chance to watch it straight through, but it looks like they just dumped the old laserdisc master onto DVD.
I've not seen the laserdisc, but I watched the DVD last night and concur it's the Davis score composed for the Photoplay edition; at least it's what I remember from the VHS release of the early '90's, which credited Davis and the English Chamber Orchestra at the end. The print has not been restored, but the image is nicely detailed and balanced, if occasionally on the soft side. The only oops moment, and a jarring one at that, comes at the film's conclusion, after (
spoiler alert) Lewis Stone takes Garbo's hat from the wreckage of her car: there's what I presume is an insert directed either to the editor or to the projectionist--"Fade Out"--before The End and Leo the Lion wrap things up. Someone really should have corrected that glitch for this release.
I hadn't seen A WOMAN OF AFFAIRS for several decades, so last night I watched the MGM/UA Laserdisc version (from 1992) and, while the Carl Davis score was just as marvelous as I expected, the image was most definitely
not "nicely detailed and balanced". Instead, the opening reels were not only quite soft but also suffering from printing halation so severe that faces were nearly washed out in many shots. The later reels were somewhat better, but overall the image quality was so poor it was hard to believe this version previously aired on Thames TV as a Brownlow-Gill/Photoplay production. Also, the above-mentioned "Fade Out" card was
not present before the end title. Unless MGM/UA Home Video re-did the transfer after this inferior disc was pressed, and then issued it on LD a second time, it seems obvious that the modern-day Warner Archive could
not have simply "dumped the old laserdisc master" on their recent DVD offering.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:58 am
by Frame Rate
Frame Rate wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:14 am
Dean Thompson wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 am
Roscoe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:43 am
I got the WOMAN OF AFFAIRS dvd, and it sounds like an orchestral score, probably the Carl Davis score, was used. I haven't had a chance to watch it straight through, but it looks like they just dumped the old laserdisc master onto DVD.
I've not seen the laserdisc, but I watched the DVD last night and concur it's the Davis score composed for the Photoplay edition; at least it's what I remember from the VHS release of the early '90's, which credited Davis and the English Chamber Orchestra at the end. The print has not been restored, but the image is nicely detailed and balanced, if occasionally on the soft side. The only oops moment, and a jarring one at that, comes at the film's conclusion, after (
spoiler alert) Lewis Stone takes Garbo's hat from the wreckage of her car: there's what I presume is an insert directed either to the editor or to the projectionist--"Fade Out"--before The End and Leo the Lion wrap things up. Someone really should have corrected that glitch for this release.
I hadn't seen A WOMAN OF AFFAIRS for several decades, so last night I watched the MGM/UA Laserdisc version (from 1992) and, while the Carl Davis score was just as marvelous as I expected, the image was most definitely
not "nicely detailed and balanced". Instead, the opening reels were not only quite soft but also suffering from printing halation so severe that faces were nearly washed out in many shots. The later reels were somewhat better, but overall the image quality was so poor it was hard to believe this version previously aired on Thames TV as a Brownlow & Gill restoration. Also, the above-mentioned "Fade Out" card was
not present before the end title. Unless MGM/UA Home Video re-did the transfer after this inferior disc was pressed, and then issued it on LD a second time, it seems obvious that the modern-day Warner Archive could
not have simply "dumped the old laserdisc master" on their recent DVD offering.
Mystery solved (sort of...) via inspecting some vintage home-video recordings done from cable:
The initial, severe halation-plagued transfer of A WOMAN OF AFFAIRS found on my 1992 MGM/UA laserdisc, and carrying full additional credits for the Thames TV-backed, Brownlow/Gill/Davis restoration & scoring, matches the initial USA telecasts of the film done (with commercial interruptions) by Turner's TNT channel between 1988 and 1994.
However, when the film debuted on Turner's TCM, where it has played often during the past quarter-century, it was shorn of the restoration and music credits (yet Davis' score was retained) and benefitted from a halation-free transfer, marred by the clumsy oversight of the "Fade Out" lab-instruction card appearing just prior to the end title.
Since Brownlow & Gill's restoration work was done in PAL format, the possibility exists that back when MGM/UA decided to exploit the film in the USA home-video market, they avoided the analog-era challenges of PAL-to-NTSC conversion and did their own, quick-and-dirty transfer of a vault/reference print (slowing the Davis score slightly to compensate for the transfer-speed difference between 25 and 24 fps). Or, they might have used the 1970s-era video master (but avoiding the needle-drop score added by Chicago's WTTW). Although I couldn't locate any off-air, home-video recordings from that far back (when Betamax machines cost well over a thousand bucks!) I do recall that some of those MGM-silents transfers (in the Gold Key syndication package) were rather mediocre.
Anyway, it now seems clear that the 2019 Warner Archive DVD release of A WOMAN OF AFFAIRS employs the very same version of the film and (uncredited) Carl Davis score that TCM has repeatedly screened since its inception but
not the (properly credited but visually inferior) version that used to play on TNT and was previously released for home video by MGM/UA.
Re: THE CROWD and THE WIND coming from Warner Archive
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:20 pm
by s.w.a.c.
I used to have a VHS copy of A Woman of Affairs recorded off-air from CBC Radio Canada (the French TV channel) in the mid-to-late 1980s, but no idea what their source for it was, or what music accompanied it. Not even sure if I still have it, but I'll try and keep an eye out for it.