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Zool wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:50 pm

Theories and ideas never die. There's always some idiot around to believe in them and get others on their side. I realized that years ago when I was still pretty young.

Not saying not to do it, but If people think the mere act of getting rid of old, "racists" songs and movies and things is going to somehow stop racism, or make the KKK, Neo Nazi's, Aryan Brotherhood, etc. disappear, or fill their head with less evil ideas, they're living in Fantasy Land. As Trump would say, "SAD!"

You seem to be missing the point - that removing these films, or making them less easy to get hold of, is not intended to STOP racism. I'm not quite where that idea comes from.

The film has been removed from Amazon (presumably) because it's offensive towards an entire race of people. As I said earlier (and so have others) no-one is suggesting that watching BOAN will turn you into a racist.

It seems to me bizarre that some people are unable to see that there is a difference.

Likewise, looking at some of the posts on the thread (but not many), I find it difficult to see why people can't see the difference between a film that DEPICTED racism and a film that ENCOURAGED racism. For example, there is a huge difference in a film from eighty years ago with Jolson (or, indeed, Larry Parks or Crosby or Garland or Irene Dunne) in blackface as was generally acceptable at the time (to white people) and a film encouraging the KKK and portraying them as heroes.

What is perhaps most remarkable is how far things have moved in just five years. In 2015, Eureka, the BFI and Kino all thought it fine to release 100th anniversary editions of Birth of a Nation in deluxe editions. But if the 100th birthday had been, say, next year, there is zero chance that they would have such releases. Five years have made a huge difference - particularly this one, of course.

Mike Gebert wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:48 pm

If one is interested in silent film, one probably ought to see Birth of a Nation once, to know what the fuss is about. If you want to watch Griffith for pleasure, watch Intolerance.

Yes and yes. Completely agree. I saw BOAN once, my curiosity was satisfied and I’ve seen and enjoyed Intolerance multiple times.

milefilms wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:49 pm

y'all should all just relax about the commie takeover theories. We definitely don't want to be hiding under your beds. It's uncomfortable down there.

Don't misunderstand, you are welcome under our beds. It's preferred to looting of our cultural downtown, suppression of thought, banning films and all the rest.

Nothing has been banned. There is a huge difference between a retailer deciding not to carry a product, and a product being banned. If a government decided to disallow sale of the film, that would be wrong. But that hasn’t happened. Amazon has decided not to carry a product. Big huge difference. Amazon is privately owned, and they are both within the norms of reality and the law in deciding to no longer carry a product, even for political reason.

If a clothes store decides to stop selling confederate flag shirts, they aren’t oppressing anybody. If a government decided to ban the shirts, that’s a problem.

My 2 cents at least.

greta de groat wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:17 pm

I used to be among those who thought BOAN should be required viewing for Americans--i thought people would be shocked to see that this level of hateful discourse was considered in the realm of normal by wide swaths of the population (apparently as well by the cast and crew--I've only ever heard of Karl Brown saying that he pushed back in any way at the time, and most never admitted anything was wrong with it). It was its acceptance for decades that to me was the most shocking thing about it.

I was too naive to realize that it was still considered normal by many people, even those who don't run around in sheets and pointy hats.

greta

The novel BOAN was based on (The Clansman by Thomas Dixon Jr.) is still a required reading assignment for some American Literature classes. Most can't wait to put it down.

35MM wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:29 am

The novel BOAN was based on (The Clansman by Thomas Dixon Jr.) is still a required reading assignment for some American Literature classes. Most can't wait to put it down.

I knew someone who, for some history research, read a bunch of Anti-Tom literature. Now that's some odd stuff.

The film has been removed from Amazon (presumably) because it's offensive towards an entire race of people. As I said earlier (and so have others) no-one is suggesting that watching BOAN will turn you into a racist.

Well, as some people have pointed in this thread, Amazon is being majorly hypocritical in pulling this, because books and films like MEIN KAMPF and JEW SUSS, etc. are "offensive towards an entire race of people," but yet they are still being sold. Having their cake and eating it too.

missdupont wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:14 am

The film has been removed from Amazon (presumably) because it's offensive towards an entire race of people. As I said earlier (and so have others) no-one is suggesting that watching BOAN will turn you into a racist.

Well, as some people have pointed in this thread, Amazon is being majorly hypocritical in pulling this, because books and films like MEIN KAMPF and JEW SUSS, etc. are "offensive towards an entire race of people," but yet they are still being sold. Having their cake and eating it too.

And the Mein Kampf actually nearly exterminated a whole group of people. We should wait though - Amazon could pull it soon.

Personally i think all the crap like this should be available and if some weirdo is "seduced" by the shit - let them be "seduced" by it, because most of society will just avoid them and not entertain their warped mindset.

I can't wait until cancel culture realizes that WHERE ARE MY CHILDREN? is a pro-eugenics film, and Lois Weber will join Margaret Sanger as well as DWG on the ash heap of history.

And Amazon still stock those Marvel movies? those are offensive to me. Offensive trash!

Pro Eugenics means you support preventing those you consider inferior, be it by ethnicity, religion, intelligence, class, character, etc. from reproducing. Tyrone Power and his class are pro eugenics in WHERE ARE MY CHILDREN?, because it is okay to prevent those immigrants, people of lower class, etc. from reproducing, but not for white, upper class people. Margaret Sanger promoted birth control, opened the first birth control clinic, but also supported eugenics. Just one month ago, Planned Parenthood removed her name from their NY clinic and are trying to remove her name from the Square named after her.

Red Bartlett wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:06 am

Don't misunderstand, you are welcome under our beds. It's preferred to looting of our cultural downtown, suppression of thought, banning films and all the rest.

I can honestly say that I have done no suppression, banning, or looting in at least the last few weeks. During that time, I have run an organization of a thousand archivists from at least 28 countries dedicated to preserving ALL of our moving image cultural heritage. (And appeared on TCM to talk about it.) I'm also in the process of restoring at least twelve films in the next eighteen months.

Pogo lives! (So does Frodo and Franco, but that's not pertinent to the conversation.)

What is a cultural downtown by the way?

Signed under my own name. Mike drop. I'm outta here...

Red Bartlett wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:06 am

milefilms wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:49 pm

y'all should all just relax about the commie takeover theories. We definitely don't want to be hiding under your beds. It's uncomfortable down there.

Don't misunderstand, you are welcome under our beds. It's preferred to looting of our cultural downtown, suppression of thought, banning films and all the rest.

SO true!

Now, thank goodness, Fascism or The Far Right would never do things like demonstrate for Racial Supremacy, carry automatic weapons into a Statehouse, vilify a Free Press, or prevent citizens from testifying before Legislatures!

*whew!*
LUCK-Y!

LillianDianaGish wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:15 am

And Amazon still stock those Marvel movies? those are offensive to me. Offensive trash!

Not to mention South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut, which blatantly promotes hatred against sweet harmless Canadians like me.

Uh, sorry. My fault. Sorry again.

Jim

Jim Roots wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:09 am

LillianDianaGish wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:15 am

And Amazon still stock those Marvel movies? those are offensive to me. Offensive trash!

Not to mention South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut, which blatantly promotes hatred against sweet harmless Canadians like me.

Uh, sorry. My fault. Sorry again.

Jim

When Canada is dead and gone
There'll be no more Celine Dion!

Well, now we're just like every other site on the internet, fighting about political cliches, so I think we can declare, to alter the words of Senator Udall, that everything has been said and everyone has said it.

Clank!