LAistory: Who Killed William Desmond Taylor?

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Ballyhoo Beau
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Post by Ballyhoo Beau » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:13 am

spadeneal wrote:Mabel Normand was called "the female Charlie Chaplin"?? I'm sure that would be news to Mabel. Never heard of that.

spadeneal
They said the same thing about Mary Pickford too after she did "Poor Little Rich Girl". :roll:

Maybe Chaplin was the Male Mary Pickford? :wink:
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Post by Bruce Long » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:23 am

spadeneal wrote:Mabel Normand was called "the female Charlie Chaplin"?? I'm sure that would be news to Mabel. Never heard of that.
Here's one example, written by Carl Sandburg: "...she is the nearest approach the motion pictures have to a feminine equivalent of Charlie Chaplin."

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salus
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Post by salus » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:46 pm

There was a video on youtube that had a police officer being interviewed by Connie Chung. He was on the scene at the 1922 murder of William Desmond Taylor and he claims they did find Mary Miles Minter's monogram panties in Taylor's apartment , he also believed it was Mary's mother who killed Taylor At the time of the interview he was over 100 but very lucid. So at the crime scene Mary's mom was the top suspect.

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Post by missdupont » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:58 pm

Where is this said evidence? Without something concrete in hand, it's just hearsay.

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Post by FrankFay » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:32 pm

salus wrote:There was a video on youtube that had a police officer being interviewed by Connie Chung. He was on the scene at the 1922 murder of William Desmond Taylor and he claims they did find Mary Miles Minter's monogram panties in Taylor's apartment , he also believed it was Mary's mother who killed Taylor At the time of the interview he was over 100 but very lucid. So at the crime scene Mary's mom was the top suspect.

He could be telling a bold faced lie. It's not impossible.
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Post by sc1957 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:15 pm

FrankFay wrote:
He could be telling a bold faced lie. It's not impossible.
Lies are generally bald-faced, not bold face. Just sayin'.
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Post by FrankFay » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:57 pm

sc1957 wrote:
FrankFay wrote:
He could be telling a bold faced lie. It's not impossible.
Lies are generally bald-faced, not bold face. Just sayin'.
picky picky- the phrase isn't set in concrete
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Post by Frederica » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:40 am

missdupont wrote:Where is this said evidence? Without something concrete in hand, it's just hearsay.
And did you check to make sure said policemen was "on the scene?" Because might have been just an old talespinner.
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Post by Gene Zonarich » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:04 am

salus wrote:he also believed it was Mary's mother who killed Taylor At the time of the interview he was over 100 but very lucid
Of course he was lucid -- you have to be to tell a coherent lie (or be interviewed by tv news celebrity).

Lucidity is not a synonym for accuracy. Take 10 lucid witnesses to an event an ask them to describe what they saw -- result is likely close to 10 variations on the event, whether they are 21 or a 101.

I remember reading an account in "American Film" magazine about director King Vidor who apparently spent much spare time investigating the matter, but I don't recall hearing anything since,and that had to be 20-plus years ago . . .
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Post by Bob Birchard » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:20 pm

Gene Zonarich wrote:
salus wrote:he also believed it was Mary's mother who killed Taylor At the time of the interview he was over 100 but very lucid
Of course he was lucid -- you have to be to tell a coherent lie (or be interviewed by tv news celebrity).

Lucidity is not a synonym for accuracy. Take 10 lucid witnesses to an event an ask them to describe what they saw -- result is likely close to 10 variations on the event, whether they are 21 or a 101.

I remember reading an account in "American Film" magazine about director King Vidor who apparently spent much spare time investigating the matter, but I don't recall hearing anything since,and that had to be 20-plus years ago . . .
Well, you must have buried your head in the sand those twenty years ago, or more . . .

Perhaps you might remember a little book called "Cast of Killers"that reportedly used the Vidor research as its starting point and "solved" the mystery . . . naming MMM's mother as the culprit. The author made a fortune, it was widely rrported that the case had been solved, though there have been several books since that have offered differing explanations, with little or no more credibility than Sidney Kirpatrick's (author of CoK) version.

Vidor was writing a screenplay--not investigating the murder. All that claptrap about the background of Vidor's investigation was likely made up. Vidor's solution was Adela Rogers St. Johns's solution (little wonder. . . they were close friends). St. Johns said: "We all KNEW that Mary's mother did it, but that she would never be prosecuted because no jury would convict a mother for protecting the virtue of her daughter."

One of the inconveniences of the "mother" theory is that even though MMM may have had a crush on Taylor and may have written him notes, it is equally true that she seemed to have crushes on many of her directors--a girl in search of a father figure-- and MMM & Taylor had not worked togther for two years at the time of his killing. Making it less likely that the mother would have had any motivation to go a gunning for the director.

The story of the gun-toting mother has some validity. Mama was known to go around Santa Barbara, pictol in hand, looking to dissaude director James Kirkwood from carrying on secret asignations with Mary. Kirkwood would be the father of MMM's aborted child--though she claimed to be a virgin at the time of her marriage to Brandon O'Hildebrandt ca. 1957 to anyone who cared to listen--and many who didn't.

But even though the mother MIGHT have done-in Taylor, there was scant evidence on which to make an arrest. let alone bring charges.

Then there's that other little inconvenience--the tales that Taylor was gay, and therefore not likely to be carrying on with the crem of Hollywood's maidenhood (or young womanhood, if you will).

The case foir Taylor's homosexuality is at best circumstantial--actreses who knew him claimed otherwise--but there is certainly enough of a trail to suggest that it was possible.

But then, there is enough to suggest that several of the "solutions" to the murder are possible--but nothing that conclusively holds water. Perhaps, though this is just a gues, that is why the case remains unsolved to the day.

Once again we come back to Margaret Gibson/Patricia Palmer--deathbed confession. Voila! Case solved.
Last edited by Bob Birchard on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gene Zonarich
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Post by Gene Zonarich » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Bob Birchard wrote:Well, you must have buried your head in the sand those twenty years ago, or more . . .
Either that, or more likely, I wasn't that interested in the story. I just thought it was weird that a legendary filmmaker would "investigate" the case. The article made him sound like "Columbo" so it is strange that the "Vidor story" was essentially made up. Go figure.
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Post by momsne » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:37 am

For anyone wanting to see the full story the NBC news magazine "1986" did on the William Desmond Taylor murder, I just uploaded to Demonoid the full segment (not the shortened YouTube clip) shown on NBC on July 8, 1986. The file is in XviD format and I am not sure if you have to be a Demonoid member to download this recent upload. The producers of "1986" seem to think Minter's mother is most likely the guilty party.
---
My posted comment on Demonoid:
In 1986, the short-lived NBC news magazine "1986" had an episode dealing with the unsolved murder in 1922 of film director William Desmond Taylor. Sidney Kirkpatrick's book on the murder, "A Cast Of Killers" was just published, and Connie Chung follows the trail laid out in Kirkpatrick's book. Along the way, there is an interview in this episode with the still-surviving 99 year old Los Angeles detective who investigated the murder case over 60 years earlier. There is a nice effect (Chyron effect?) used that places Connie inside a crime scene picture of the interior of Taylor's bungalow.

The lead story for the July 8, 1986 "1986" program (edited out of this upload) is a story on the then hot war with Libya. Not much has changed in the past 25 years, Colonel Gaddafi has a lot of sweet crude oil and the USA OPEC members want it badly.

Note: I also included an XviD file for an episode of the 1960 series "The Westerner." The Westerner.S01E12.Hands On The Gun.NBC.1960 is the next to last episode of this series, very well directed by Sam Peckinpah. Michael Ansara co-stars. This episode was shown on the Westerns Channel in 2004 and had a brief "bug" once during the airing I recorded.

http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/2667905/20834305/

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Jim Roots
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Post by Jim Roots » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:48 pm

I killed William Desmond Taylor!


Jim

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Post by Rodney » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:57 pm

Jim Roots wrote:I killed William Desmond Taylor!
No! I'm Spartacus!
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Post by missdupont » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:23 pm

I'M Spartacus.

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Post by salus » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:28 pm

This is the show i mentioned about the elderly policeman who was on the scene at the murder and said they believed it was Marys mom, Did Faith McClean who saw the woman dressed like a man as she described it ever speculate on who she thought killed Taylor Douglas McClean lived until 1967, how about wife Faith when did she pass since was the only eyewitness.

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Post by salus » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:29 pm

Any chance the McCleans knew who it was but Hollywood told them to shut up if they wanted to keep their careers.

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Post by salus » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:33 pm

Faith Cole MacLean

MacLean is widely believed to have seen the killer. MacLean was the wife of actor Douglas MacLean and the couple were neighbors of Taylor. They were startled by a loud noise at 8 PM. MacLean went to her front door and came face to face with someone emerging from the front door of Taylor’s home whom she said was dressed "like my idea of a motion picture burglar". She recalled this person paused for a moment before turning and walking back through the door as if having forgotten something, then re-emerged and flashed a smile at her before disappearing between the buildings. MacLean decided she had heard a car back-fire. She also told police interviewers this person looked "funny" (like movie actors in makeup) and may have been a woman disguised as a man


IF THIS WIKIPEDIA ENTRY IS TRUE AND THE KILLER ACTED AS MRS.MCLEAN STATES HERE IT ADDS EVIDENCE TO THE IDEA OF A GIBSON/PALMER BEING THE MURDERER BECAUSE ONLY SOMEONE THAT DELUSIONAL WOULD HAVE SMILED AT FAITH AND NOT RAN OFF BUT KEPT CALM.

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Post by salus » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:47 pm

Another aspect that might point to Gibson/Palmer as the murderer would be that Fath and Douglas Mclean were part of the upper echeolon of Hollywood then so they would proably have known Mary Miles Minter, her mother and Mabel Normand and since they were neighbors they would defintely have known Peavey but she never says that the killer was vaguely familiar so even though she didn't get a great look she still would have sensed that she thought the murderer somewhat familiar. Also why would someone that was known smile at her that would have identified her unless she was delusional or not known to the McCleans. Gibson/Palmer while a working actress wouldn't have traveled in the same circles that the others did so knew she wouldn't be recognized. She Seemed like she was a movie burglar also adds to the Gibson guilt. because she would have access to costumes.

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Post by salus » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:34 am

I'd make this comparison like the murder of JFK was more interesting than his presidency so the murder of Taylor was more interesting than Mary Miles Minter's film career. She would be a footnote in film history if not for the murder.

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Post by Jim Roots » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:05 am

salus wrote:I'd make this comparison like the murder of JFK was more interesting than his presidency so the murder of Taylor was more interesting than Mary Miles Minter's film career. She would be a footnote in film history if not for the murder.
You obviously weren't around when Kennedy was President. Nor are you educated about his Presidency. It was hardly uninteresting that he brought the world closer to atomic holocaust than at any other time in history, before or since. Or that he was responsible for the worst military fiasco the USA had suffered up to that time, excepting the day during the War of 1812 when we Canadians sailed down the bay and burned your capitol city as easily as we burn meat on our barbeques today. Or that he was responsible for the deepening American involvement in what became the Vietnam War. Or that ... lots and lots of other fascinating and incredibly important things.

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Post by Robert Moulton » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:30 am

salus wrote:There was a video on youtube that had a police officer being interviewed by Connie Chung. He was on the scene at the 1922 murder of William Desmond Taylor and he claims they did find Mary Miles Minter's monogram panties in Taylor's apartment , he also believed it was Mary's mother who killed Taylor At the time of the interview he was over 100 but very lucid. So at the crime scene Mary's mom was the top suspect.
Another possibility is that he is not lying but misremembering about the panties. Hearing for 60 years about the panties might put it into your head that they indeed were found at the time. So then you end up with an eyewitness who is not lying but still saying something not true.

A more general question about cases such as these: Are there any examples of such a case being solved so long after the fact? If there are, are they cases of smoking guns turning up only, or are there examples of someone being able to build a strong enough case based on circumstantial evidence?

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Post by salus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:43 am

I wish the guy who heard the confession from Patricia Palmer/Margaret Gibson's lips would come in chat. I'm more convinced of her for no other reason as i stated before why would someone smile at Faith Cole MacClean if she was known because Faith would recognize her. So it must be Gibson the others Faith knew. And after killing someone only a delusional person would be smiling, others would run right out.

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Post by salus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:47 am

Is Tayorology the only site that is concerned with this case or does anybody know any others.? Also are we sure Mary Miles Minter had an abortion from the affair with the other man. It seems strange how shortly after that she headed off to New York and Europe and was putting on weight. Hmmm!!

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Post by Brooksie » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:33 pm

Robert Moulton wrote:Another possibility is that he is not lying but misremembering about the panties. Hearing for 60 years about the panties might put it into your head that they indeed were found at the time. So then you end up with an eyewitness who is not lying but still saying something not true.
This is a problem even in modern criminal trials. People's recollections are influenced a lot by all sorts of things, including other people's accounts of the same incident. This is an incident where there are so many different accounts, and so many media elaborations or concoctions, that it would be very easy for someone - particularly an elderly person - to get confused.

Unless some vital piece of previously unknown evidence turns up I can't imagine anyone solving this, although with all the increased access to archives and records, perhaps more may be discovered about the players themselves. Taylor's other family in New York, for example, and a clearer picture of what happened there.

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Post by Lokke Heiss » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:47 pm

spadeneal wrote:Mabel Normand was called "the female Charlie Chaplin"?? I'm sure that would be news to Mabel. Never heard of that.

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I always thought it went: "Charlie Chaplin was the male Mabel Normand."
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