Criterion Has Apparently Struck Deal with Chaplin Estate

[Kevin2]

I saw the announcement on blu-ray.com about the Kinowelt Chaplin Blu-rays due sometime in April/May. They include: The Kid; The Gold Rush; City Lights; Modern Times and The Great Dictator. I can't find any information on the Kinowelt site itself about these releases.

Here's the info from the Park Circus site:
http://www.parkcircus.com/dvd/at-home-on-dvd/

[WaverBoy]

I'm sorry guys, I haven't had a chance to see those much-praised Image DVD's. Where I live I have to be satisfied if I even get a chance to buy any silent DVDs. This is so frustrating when from time to time there are all-new and better releases,too.

And please radiotelefonia, don't tell me what I like and what I should like. You can think that The Kid's better cut is original, for me it is not.

Well, the MK2 DVDs are quite a bit better than nothing, I grant you.

But I can't agree with you about the cut version of THE KID.

MODERN TIMES really suffers as well in the reissue version on MK2; the ENTIRE LAST VERSE of the nonsense song is chopped out with a dull axe. The Image DVD was the first time I'd ever heard the song in its entirety; I'd always thought the end of the song was extremely choppy. Charlie, that was an extremely bad re-editing call. You should have been slapped silly for that one.

[azjazzman]

I saw the announcement on blu-ray.com about the Kinowelt Chaplin Blu-rays due sometime in April/May. They include: The Kid; The Gold Rush; City Lights; Modern Times and The Great Dictator. I can't find any information on the Kinowelt site itself about these releases.

Here's the info from the Park Circus site:
http://www.parkcircus.com/dvd/at-home-on-dvd/

Here is the Amazon Germany listing:

http://tinyurl.com/ycgo7c5

[Kevin2]

Kevin2 wrote:
I saw the announcement on blu-ray.com about the Kinowelt Chaplin Blu-rays due sometime in April/May. They include: The Kid; The Gold Rush; City Lights; Modern Times and The Great Dictator. I can't find any information on the Kinowelt site itself about these releases.

Here's the info from the Park Circus site:
http://www.parkcircus.com/dvd/at-home-on-dvd/


Here is the Amazon Germany listing:

http://tinyurl.com/ycgo7c5

Thanks for the link. It looks like Kinowelt has the set up on their site as well. The supplements seem identical to the WB/MK2 releases including the intros by Chaplin biographer David Robinson and the mini "Chaplin Today" documentaries.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... ie_chaplin

[Doug Sulpy]

The cover art for the U.K. blu-rays (and DVDs, for that matter) is up on Amazon.co.uk.

http://tinyurl.com/ygumxbt

http://tinyurl.com/ylzetvr

Sadly, they might even be LESS attractive than the Warner releases - which I didn't think was possible.

[WaverBoy]

My Image discs appear to become more cherished all the time. A huge feather in Mr. Shepard's cap, those releases.

[moviepas]

In the past day or so Amazon UK has announced the Blu ray for May 10 of The Great Dictator, and, The Kid(listed as 113mins). No other details except the producing company as Park Circus, who ever they are. No comments from anyone yet on the Amazon site and nothing on Amazon.com as I write.

[moviepas]

The Kinowelt running time for the Blu Ray of The Kid is listed as ca53mins. They seem to be all the same as the MK2 Warner DVDs in content until I am told different. The release date is about the same as the UK Park Circus pair.

[spadeneal]

Well if anything comes to this I would like to see the First National shorts with alternate ones to those Chaplin devised/dictated/delegated or whatever. The Idle Class is a great comedy, but the 1970s score just sinks it. It is intrusive and distracting, the one thing Chaplin said he didn't want his film music to be, but I think late in life he didn't have the awareness to restrain the underscoring to those standards.

spadeneal

[moviepas]

I just got an e-mail from Amazon UK that The Kid & The Great Dictator Blu Ray(Park Circus) releases are already shipped and I should have them by early next week. Doesn't sound like May 10 (as the site still says) to me. I ordered just see what they look like and would still consider the Criterion releases when they happen.

[NeoF]

I just got an e-mail from Amazon UK that The Kid & The Great Dictator Blu Ray(Park Circus) releases are already shipped and I should have them by early next week. Doesn't sound like May 10 (as the site still says) to me. I ordered just see what they look like and would still consider the Criterion releases when they happen.

Did you get them? Have you seen them already?

The Criterion thing with Chaplin is a done deal or is it still a work-in-progess negotiation?

[moviepas]

Should have had the discs by Friday but it is an hour or so before I go to the PO(Monday March 22) and hope the parcel has arrived. Will write when it happens. Not sure why they are coming two months early though.

[NeoF]

Should have had the discs by Friday but it is an hour or so before I go to the PO(Monday March 22) and hope the parcel has arrived. Will write when it happens. Not sure why they are coming two months early though.

Oh OK. I'll be checking this thread for any news.

[moviepas]

The UK parcel did not turn up today so it is late based on usual fast shipping from UK to me but then there is a strike there but it should not have effected my parcel because it left before that and other services are usually used for delivery(DHL). Further bulletins when the come to hand!!!!

[moviepas]

Bad news but the parcel with the Chaplin Blu Rays did not turn up. It was an error and I got a new invoice and a new dispatch date of June 21 2010 for the discs but they might pull out and dispatch sooner when they get stock. Sorry for the false alarm but it was out of my hands. I was so looking forward to reviewing these this month.

[MattBarry]

If there just going to put out the exact same MK-2 editions as is all over again what is the point? The Chaplin Heir's have to understand that they goofed on the Warner DVD's in so many areas. They also need to concede that we need a complete as possible and thoughtfully restored version of the original 1925 cut of THE GOLD RUSH on DVD, with Orchestral score. I know lots of people that consider the '42 sound re-issue as practically un-watchable. THE GOLD RUSH has never been done proper justice on DVD. Especially, compared with Keaton's THE GENERAL, or Lloyd's THE FRESHMAN. If I were the Chaplin Estate I would be embarrassed half to death.

What about the re-orchestration of Chaplin's CITY LIGHTS score by Carl Davis? Included as an alternate track by Image, but snuffed out of the Warner release? THE KID is also far stronger with the missing footage David Shepard restored. Any chance of a recording of the 1928 score to THE CIRCUS? Jillian Anderson has toured with orchestra's that have played the score to the film live.

What really irks me is MK-2 even cut THE CHAPLIN REVIEW, some of the funniest stuff is missing from A DOG'S LIFE, and SHOULDER ARMS. Now I know it used to be there, because I still have the Playhouse VHS release from the 1980's.

Well, I don't want to jump the gun and assume what versions Criterion is or isn't going to release.

However, I would be very disappointed if they were the "Daddy" versions. Or if they must release those, provide them as an alternative to the Shepard restorations. I know it's easy for me to say this, considering that I'm not the one putting up the money or restoration work to put these out, and I say this with the utmost respect to everyone involved in this great project. But purely from a historical standpoint, I would really hope that Criterion is able to release the more complete versions.

That said, the M2k/Warners version of "The Gold Rush" did include the Brownlow restoration on disc 2. I saw nothing wrong with this, and it's exactly the kind of compromise I'd encourage Criterion and the Chaplin Estate to consider for this new release. The print and presentation looked fantastic, and it had a nice piano score to boot.

I'm not crazy about the "Chaplin Revue" cuts either. I understand them in the context of that particular project, but having those as the only available copies is sort of like having "Harold Lloyd's Funny Side of Life" as the only available version of "The Freshman". Again, in an ideal situation, "The Chaplin Revue" could be provided as a supplementary film. It's interesting in a historical context in terms of how Chaplin incorporated those changes (I still hold on to my old VHS version for this reason), but I'll take the Shepard restorations any day.

Again, I realize my thoughts on this must come across as very entitled and (to the experienced preservationists on this board) hopelessly naive in terms of the actual issues involved in a project like this.

[MattBarry]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases? The Gold Rush was a little disappointing, but lucky enough there was the original version too.

I would like to see The Kid’s original 1921 version but only as an extra. For me the only one is 1971 re-editing. The story is much tighter and the main action is between the Tramp and the Boy. Just a piece of fun and sentiment, I’m happy enough for that.

"The Gold Rush" was the one disc I thought they really got "right" in that set. A perfect compromise between respecting Chaplin's wishes for his 1942 cut as the "final word" on the film, but also the 1925 restoration for historical purposes (and, of course, for those of us who prefer that version!)

[MattBarry]

My Image discs appear to become more cherished all the time. A huge feather in Mr. Shepard's cap, those releases.

They're the reason I started buying DVDs at all. In fact, I bought "The Kid" disc and the "First National Collection" before I even had a player to play them on. When I heard they were eventually going out of print (this was in 2000) I snatched them all up.

[daveboz]

Screen caps of the new CITY LIGHTS Blu-Ray at DVDBeaver:

http://www.DVDBeaver.com/film/DVDCompare/citylights.htm

Comparing this disc to earlier DVDs, reviewer Gary Tooze says, "the HD transferred image has been differently framed showing much more on the left hand side, more also on the bottom and less on the top and right of the frame".

So frustrating. Not one of these releases gives one the entire image.

(Just like the VHS and British DVD versions of DISHONORED (1931)—both are differently framed and NEITHER gives the entire frame. Aaaaaarrrrghhh!)

[Harlett O'Dowd]

So frustrating. Not one of these releases gives one the entire image.

(Just like the VHS and British DVD versions of DISHONORED (1931)—both are differently framed and NEITHER gives the entire frame. Aaaaaarrrrghhh!)

Maybe this needs to be moved to another thread, but

Can someone explain the economics/technology behind this? Received the Golden Dawn DVD and noticed that, even though the credits were cropped to allow you to see the "whole" image, the credits, at least, were clearly framed chopping off the left. Now the credits were readable, but clearly no longer centered.

In this day of adjustable TV/computer images and the increasingly niche markets for films of the pre-Star Wars era, I don't understand the decision to frame films to video instead of simply including the whole image.

[Jim Reid]

Maybe this needs to be moved to another thread, but

Can someone explain the economics/technology behind this? Received the Golden Dawn DVD and noticed that, even though the credits were cropped to allow you to see the "whole" image, the credits, at least, were clearly framed chopping off the left. Now the credits were readable, but clearly no longer centered.

In this day of adjustable TV/computer images and the increasingly niche markets for films of the pre-Star Wars era, I don't understand the decision to frame films to video instead of simply including the whole image.

That part of the image no longer exists. When films were released with a a Vitaphone track, the picture was still the silent film ratio. Years later, when the studios converted the sound to optical tracks, they just lopped off the area that was needed for the soundtrack. I'm guessing that somewhere in the vaults, they might still have the camera negative. They could squeeze the picture down a bit and include the whole frame, but it would be pretty expensive and not likely for a Warner Archive release. That is if the even have the original camera neg. I first saw this when my tv station years ago ran the MGM part-talkie "Mysterious Island". I actually went through and reframed all the titles and edited them back into the tape, but some had missing info that I couldn't fix.

[Jack Theakston]

Given GOLDEN DAWN's June/July 1930 release date, it was probably shot after the Hollywood transition to optical sound centering, which took place in November, 1929 (and the details of which are reported in the Jan. 1930 issue of the SMPE Journal).

I don't have the Warners Archive DVD, nor have I ever run a print, but a cursory view of my copy of the film from a TCM broadcast would seem that while the telecine operator was careful enough to windowbox the credits, that the framing position was simply too tight to the right. Deletion of the area where an optical soundtrack would be positioned would compromise a greater area.

For whatever it's worth, the transfer looks like the B&W dupe neg was made directly off of an IB print, as evidenced by its softness.

[johnpete2]

What really irks me is MK-2 even cut THE CHAPLIN REVIEW, some of the funniest stuff is missing from A DOG'S LIFE, and SHOULDER ARMS. Now I know it used to be there, because I still have the Playhouse VHS release from the 1980's.

Dear Gagman 66:

This may be a LONG-SHOT, but I was wondering if you may have come across a cute little tow-head child actress by the name of Nora Dempsey (silent films 1914-1918)? The URL below, will take you to several captured stills of her in, WHEN LITTLE LINDY SANG - 1916, when she was 5 years old.

viewtopic.php?t=5591

This is my mother, and I am hoping to find other silent films which she was a part of.

Thanks for your help.

[daveboz]

DVDBeaver reviews new German Blu-Ray of MODERN TIMES, with lots of frame grabs:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompar ... ntimes.htm

And, lo and behold, the entire image, rounded corners and all, is on the disc!!!!

I almost want to say "Wow"!

So it CAN be done!

[kndy]

Just saw Blu-ray.com's review for "The Great Dictator" (UK/Park Circus). The picture quality looks fantastic. It'll be interesting to see how much extra the Criterion will be from this release.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Great ... 00/#Review

[radiotelefonia]

But according to Chaplin himself... those versions are a not the original ones:

[WaverBoy]

DVDBeaver reviews new German Blu-Ray of MODERN TIMES, with lots of frame grabs:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompar ... ntimes.htm

And, lo and behold, the entire image, rounded corners and all, is on the disc!!!!

I almost want to say "Wow"!

So it CAN be done!

Apparently, it can't. DVDBeaver fails to mention that the only complete version of this film is on the old Image DVD. (If they did mention it, I couldn't find it.)