Chaplin's "Modern Times" on Blu-ray/DVD - Nov. 16

[CoffeeDan]

Many of the extras look like they've been carried over from the WB/MK2 release of MODERN TIMES, and if that's the case, the "deleted" scenes are two sequences cut from the film BEFORE its release in 1936 -- and are very much worth having. So let's not panic before we have to.

Of course they're worth having, but that's not the point. The outtake of the Tramp trying to cross the busy street was indeed a pre-release deletion (hence it being presented unrestored with no audio in the WB/MK2 release), and belongs among the extras, BUT the final verse of the nonsense song was present and accounted for in the 1936 release; it was cut by Chaplin twenty years later for the 1956 reissue. So, it should be included in the film proper, as it was in David Shepard's release through Image.

Thanks for clearing this up. I knew the last verse of the song had been cut, but I didn't know it was after the reissue of the film. In all seriousness, I'm grateful for all the people on these boards who keep me in line on stuff like this.

Yesterday, I had made an offer for a box set of the Shepard-produced Chaplin features (THE GOLD RUSH, CITY LIGHTS, MODERN TIMES, and THE GREAT DICTATOR) on eBay. I was considering a counteroffer from the seller when I saw this thread. However, after reading it through, I think I'm going to accept the offer and look for the other Shepard/Chaplin features (bless you, David).

While I, too, can sympathize with the Chaplin heirs for honoring Chaplin's wishes regarding his films, I think the originals should still be available in some form for those who want them. While it is true that Chaplin had the right to edit his films the way he wanted any time he wanted, in a sense the films belong to the rest of us who love them and have made them valuable properties. A modicum of respect should be shown to both Chaplin and his audiences, but exactly how that should be done is still up for discussion.

As I always say, "It ain't a perfect world yet . . ."

[Rick Lanham]

I've just purchased some of David Shepard's Image Chaplin DVDs as well, via the secondary market.

I trust David to have done the best job possible and hadn't done it earlier only because I was trying to get a few DVDs that are rarer.

But since there is all this attention at this time, I figured I better get them while they are still available.

Looking forward to Flicker Alley's contribution to Chaplinalia (sp?).

Rick

[CoffeeDan]

I prefer "Chapliniana."

And I'm looking forward to the Flicker Alley set, too. Just heard that an excerpt from the newly discovered A THIEF CATCHER will be included.

[rollot24]

While I, too, can sympathize with the Chaplin heirs for honoring Chaplin's wishes regarding his films, I think the originals should still be available in some form for those who want them. While it is true that Chaplin had the right to edit his films the way he wanted any time he wanted, in a sense the films belong to the rest of us who love them and have made them valuable properties.

Even that great control freak George Lucas finally allowed the original theatrical versions of STAR WARS to be kept for posterity along with his tinkered versions. (Not that I'm comparing Lucas to Chaplin as an artist in any way.)

[peachtreegal]

I'm old school. I still have the Shepard/Image LASER DISCS and I'm holding on to them. ;) (Especially the City Lights one autographed by Carl Davis.) :)

I wonder what Chaplin himself would be doing with his films vis a vis home video if he were alive and well and able to supervise.

[WaverBoy]

Speedy,

SMILE was a top 10 Hit for Nat King Cole in 1953, to coincide with the re-issue of Chaplin's MODERN TIMES. Also should mention that CITY LIGHTS was re-released in 1950. I doubt if there is any chance that we will get the alternate recording of Chaplin's score, reprised by Carl Davis in 1988, and featured on the old Image DVD release.

Can you give me a source for the 1953 MODERN TIMES reissue date? I still can't find anything on it.

The alternate Carl Davis score recording is nice as a curiosity, but I'd never watch the film that way. I'm far too attached to the original recording.

[WaverBoy]

This just in:

I just found out that the complete version of LIMELIGHT is only on the Image laserdisc; an important, wonderful scene featuring Calvero getting a handout from his armless friend that was cut AFTER the premiere is intact in the film proper on the Image laserdisc, but for some reason appears only as an extra on the Image DVD. Zeus only knows why that happened; perhaps the LIMELIGHT Image DVD was the first casualty of the Chaplin Estate's ridiculously draconian policy. Luckily the other films made it out unscathed. At any rate, I thought I'd spread the word. Armed with my newly-acquired knowledge, I just scored a new shrink-wrapped copy of the LD off Amazon for $11.47 shipped from New York. Looks like I'm fully covered now. :-)

[Harold Aherne]

[deleted; no longer relevant]

[Jeffrey Vance]

See page 388 of CHAPLIN: GENIUS OF THE CINEMA. United Artists distributed the reissue of MODERN TIMES with a general release date of Aug. 28, 1954.

Jeffrey Vance

[WaverBoy]

Aw man, we were all wrong. And I even have a copy of Mr. Vance's wonderful book. Did I think to pull it out and have a look? Nope.

[T0m M]

It would surprise me if a boycott and e-mail campaign by the hardcore, silent film fraternity did anything to sway the stance of Criterion and Chaplin's heirs. Undoubtedly, based on their past releases, Criterion are sympathetic to our cause, but have been stonewalled by the heirs. Their market research would have shown that Chaplin is popular enough that the release should still show a substantial profit via sales to the general public, even without our support.

In fact, the Blu-Ray supporters among our fold should pray that Criterion's Chaplin releases are not a failure. It would send a negative message regarding silent film's Blu-Ray potential to the existing producers, if an artist the magnitude of Chaplin did not yield a profit. Surely, Criterion would not be releasing any more in the near future, depriving us of the possibilty of seeing HD versions of films such as the Von Sternberg titles and Pandora's Box, which have already been mastered in HD. More importantly, it might convince other companies such as Milestone, Image and Warner Brothers (who are currently sitting on the fence with existing HD masters of seminal titles such as Sparrows, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Big Parade) that Blu-Ray is not a viable format for silent film.

[Kevin2]

Despite the edit, I'm definitely getting the Blu-ray. Paulette Goddard in hi-def is a no-brainer.

[BrianG]

Despite the edit, I'm definitely getting the Blu-ray. Paulette Goddard in hi-def is a no-brainer.

Didn't think of that. I may have to reconsider. Hopefully they'll be a BD of A Woman Of Paris. I want to see Edna in Blu-Ray.

[Gagman 66]

Tom,

If they want the Chaplin Blu-ray's to be successful than the Estate should give us what we want. The complete films. Don't suppress anything. Stop being stubborn closed-minded, and selfish about the matter. It's not fair to say that these didn't do well when they are the exact same content more or less as the disappointing Warner DVD's were. Especially with THE GOLD RUSH which has to have an Ultimate edition of something other than the practically un-watchable 1942 re-issue.

[WaverBoy]

In fact, the Blu-Ray supporters among our fold should pray that Criterion's Chaplin releases are not a failure. It would send a negative message regarding silent film's Blu-Ray potential to the existing producers, if an artist the magnitude of Chaplin did not yield a profit. Surely, Criterion would not be releasing any more in the near future, depriving us of the possibilty of seeing HD versions of films such as the Von Sternberg titles and Pandora's Box, which have already been mastered in HD. More importantly, it might convince other companies such as Milestone, Image and Warner Brothers (who are currently sitting on the fence with existing HD masters of seminal titles such as Sparrows, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Big Parade) that Blu-Ray is not a viable format for silent film.

Criterion is now well aware that any lost sales of particular Chaplin titles will be due to them releasing incomplete versions of them that have already been released complete elsewhere, not because there isn't a market for silent films on Blu-ray. (Milestone would be well aware of the reason also, and for Image and WB who might not be privvy to this forum, there's the Home Theater Forum, which I know WB keeps tabs on.) As you said above:

Their market research would have shown that Chaplin is popular enough that the release should still show a substantial profit via sales to the general public, even without our support.

Criterion is a company that is revered for releasing films in their absolute best and most complete form, and some of their Chaplin releases won't measure up to that. THE GOLD RUSH (if the silent version is included like in the WB/MK2), THE CIRCUS and CITY LIGHTS should do just fine, as should THE GREAT DICTATOR, MONSIEUR VERDOUX and LIMELIGHT (there is no complete version of this one on DVD, and I doubt too many besides me will hunt down the LD for this title). I certainly wouldn't advocate not buying the unaffected titles. But buying cut versions of films already released uncut also sends a negative message, that the fans will buy whatever we're handed and like it.

I own all the Image DVDs, so I have absolutely no reason to waste money on Criterion releases of the affected titles; I will most likely upgrade the non-affected titles as I can work it into my budget. If I didn't already own the Image DVDs, I would pick them up for the affected titles and get the Criterion Blu's for the rest. I don't collect or watch incomplete versions of films I love unless I have no other choice.

[T0m M]

If they want the Chaplin Blu-ray's to be successful than the Estate should give us what we want....

Criterion is now well aware that any lost sales of particular Chaplin titles will be due to them releasing incomplete versions...

Gentlemen, I respectfully disagree. While there will undoubtedly be some lost sales due to the edited versions, these lost sales are insignificant and will have a neglible effect on the success of the project.

Regardless of how ardent we are, ours is a niche market, with very small sales. Chaplin is one of the few artists who transcends our fraternity and appeals to the general public. Success with the general public can be quite lucrative and this is what Criterion is aiming for, with the Blu-Ray release of the Chaplins. They are looking at potential sales that are magnitudes larger than what they could achieve in the our market.

If the hardcore, silent film market was their prime concern, Criterion would have negotiated the rights for Blu-Ray releases of the Von Sternbergs, as their intial foray. These films would have provided maximum penetration of our tiny market. They are all seminal films, with no previous DVD versions for competition and cinematography tailor made for Blu-Ray. I'm quite confident in stating that the vast majority of forum members would have prefered the Von Sternbergs over the Chaplins for Blu-Ray, but the former just doesn't have the mass appeal of the latter and Criterion, understandably, made their decision purely on economics.

I, for one, hope the Chaplins do well, regardless of the edits. Then, maybe Criterion will go back and negotiate the Blu-Ray rights for the Von Sternbergs and other silent titles.

[WaverBoy]

If they want the Chaplin Blu-ray's to be successful than the Estate should give us what we want....

Criterion is now well aware that any lost sales of particular Chaplin titles will be due to them releasing incomplete versions...

Gentlemen, I respectfully disagree. While there will undoubtedly be some lost sales due to the edited versions, these lost sales are insignificant and will have a neglible effect on the success of the project.

Regardless of how ardent we are, ours is a niche market, with very small sales. Chaplin is one of the few artists who transcends our fraternity and appeals to the general public. Success with the general public can be quite lucrative and this is what Criterion is aiming for, with the Blu-Ray release of the Chaplins. They are looking at potential sales that are magnitudes larger than what they could achieve in the our market.

If the hardcore, silent film market was their prime concern, Criterion would have negotiated the rights for Blu-Ray releases of the Von Sternbergs, as their intial foray. These films would have provided maximum penetration of our tiny market. They are all seminal films, with no previous DVD versions for competition and cinematography tailor made for Blu-Ray. I'm quite confident in stating that the vast majority of forum members would have prefered the Von Sternbergs over the Chaplins for Blu-Ray, but the former just doesn't have the mass appeal of the latter and Criterion, understandably, made their decision purely on economics.

I, for one, hope the Chaplins do well, regardless of the edits. Then, maybe Criterion will go back and negotiate the Blu-Ray rights for the Von Sternbergs and other silent titles.

I meant that, if sales of the incomplete titles turn out to be significantly lower than those of the complete titles, then they would know the probable reason.

First you post that we don't want to make companies leery of releasing silent films on Blu by not buying the incomplete Chaplin titles; then, when countered with the position that the companies will be aware of the real reason for lower sales figures of said titles, you turn around and assert that even if the hardcore fans don't buy said titles, it won't make a significant dent in sales after all, due to Chaplin's transcension of our fraternity and appeal to the general public, so we might as well not bother. You appear to be changing your story, but perhaps I missed something.

There's no way I can support the release of incomplete classic films which were previously released complete, especially by Criterion, of all labels.

[moviepas]

I for one got some of the Laserdiscs of the Chaplins which came about because a small shop in Lansing/Mi put a full page add in Classic Images offering 10% off plus postage. I took up the offer and bought a lot from this store which is now gone. But I did not get the First National Shorts or the later titles of Chaplin thus I don't have the Laser of Limelight. The Image I was going to but in the early days but the price, the exchange rate and the must higher idea of international postage at the time stopped me because there was so much other stuff that was new to Home Video that I wanted and then they were gone. I got the Warners from USA(Amazon) at good prices and local versions came out in PAL as identical content to the US editions. They are now gone and slowly they are getting wrecked and being withdrawn from the various city free hire libraries.

A point has been mentioned from time to time about the original MK2 masters being 25fps and converted to 24fps for US NTSC editions, but the current big screen plasmas & lcds are supposed to convert the image on 25fps PAL to 24fps for viewing.

[Doug Sulpy]

Dear Chaplin Estate,

What's all this nonsense about respecting Charlie's "decisions"?

News at 11:00. He was in complete control of ALL of those films when they were originally issued, too. The decisions were 100% his.

Therefore, you can respect:

A) Decisions made by the man at the height of his creative powers and fame, or
B) Decisions made by the man decades later, driven by a desire to make his films more "suitable" for [then] contemporary tastes.

The correct choice isn't exactly hard to make here, fellas. Why not try respecting the ARTIST who originally made these films, and put some effort into restoring his work to what audiences would have seen when these films were originally issued?

Just what about that very simple concept is so very hard for you to understand?

Until that happens, my money's staying in my pocket – Criterion or not.

[WaverBoy]

My brand-new shrinkwrapped uncut laserdisc of LIMELIGHT just showed up. Gave it a spin last night...looks just fine on my HDTV. Eleven bucks. Pretty sad that Criterion is being forced by rights owners to release an incomplete version of a film that was released complete on LD seventeen years ago.

[Gagman 66]

Doug Sulpy,

Did you actually send that letter to Criterion of the Chaplin Heir's? It's great, but it doesn't do much if any good here.

[kndy]

I'm currently watching my review copy of "Modern Times" and wow...it really looks very good on Blu-ray.

Technical details: According to Criterion, the new high-definition digital transfer was created in 2K resolution on an ARRISCAN digital scanner from a 35 mm fine-grain master positive that was wetgated from the original 35 mm camera negative. Color correction of the 2K data was done using Assimilate's Scratch software. Pixel Farm's PFClean systemw as used to deflicker and stabilize the image, and to remove thousands of instances of dirt, debris, scratches, splices, warps and jitter. Additional marks and splices were removed using MTI's DRS system.

As for audio, "Modern Times" is presented in uncompressed monaural. According to the Criterion Collection, the monaural soundtrack was remastered at 24-bit from the original 35mm soundtrack print. Clicks, thumps, his and hum were manually removed using Pro Tools HD. Crackle was attenuated using AudioCube's integrated audio workstation.

Included is a 36-page booklet with photos of Charlie Chaplin, Paulette Goddard and essays: "Exit the Tramp" by Saul Austerlitz (author of "Another Fine Mess: A History of American Film Comedy"), "Chaplin Sees the World" by Lisa Stein (who is writing a biography about Charlie's half brother, Sydney Chaplin which is forthcoming).

I know a lot of minds have been made up of this release but for those who are curious about the Blu-ray release, the film looks great. Good amount of grain, blacks are nice and really good contrast. I still have to watch the special features but so far, I was quite pleased with the HD treatment of the film.

[WaverBoy]

It may look great, but it's not all there. What a wasted opportunity.

[kndy]

It may look great, but it's not all there. What a wasted opportunity.

I disagree, but to each their own. I can easily understand why fans are upset. But the Criterion Collection has pretty much focused on releasing films to what the directors wanted. And yes, many fans of the original release are not happy with the change that Chaplin made by eliminating part of that scene but it's a change he made back in 1954. That was his decision and I'm sure how "Star Wars" fans took it to George Lucas for that Han Solo and Guido scene in the "Star Wars" re-release, I'm sure that Chaplin probably stuck to his guns from 1955 to the '70s.

Now was their ever an explanation of why the change was made? Maybe in the commentary it is explained but I'll listen to it later today (or perhaps one of you has the answers to why the short sequence was deleted).

But my feeling is this, you get the both of both worlds as you can still find the original release on DVD but at the same time, you get this fantastic Blu-ray release and I emphasize that this film looks fantastic on Blu-ray! Even hearing the uncompressed soundtrack was very cool!

Yes, I am even going further and will say that after watching "Modern Times" on Blu-ray, I do not see myself ever watching it on DVD again. When you see how big of a difference the picture quality is in HD versus DVD, you will be surprised. Overall, a pretty awesome 2K transfer by Criterion Collection and Cineteca di Bologna.

I have yet to listen to the commentary by Chaplin biographer David Robinson which I will do later today.

For those who are looking for a breakdown of the special features on the disc, here they are:

* "Modern Times: A Closer Look" by Chaplin historian Jeffrey Vance - (18:53) This featurette goes into the production photography and how Chaplin was very strict on what shots were taken and let out to the public.

* A Bucket of Water and a Glass Matte - (20:02) A featurette on the film’s visual and sound effects, with experts Craig Barron and Ben Burtt.

* Silent Traces: Modern Times - A Visual Essay by John Bengston - (15:08 ) A very cool featurette that shows the locations of where "Modern Times" was shot in LA and shows how those locations have changed today.

* David Raksin and the Score - (15:48 ) This featurette is from the 1992 interview with Raksin about arranging the music for "Modern Times". Also, included is a selection from the film's original orchestral track (8:38 ).

* Two Bits - Featuring a deleted scene "Crossing the Street" (1:48 ) which Chaplin deleted in 1936 before its release the premiere and "The Tramp's Song Unedited" (4:16) which features the entire nonsense song sequence with a sequence cut by Chaplin for the 1954 re-release.

* Three Trailers - (7:33) Theatrical trailers for "Modern Times" for U.S. France and Germany

* All at Sea (1933), a home movie by Alistair Cooke featuring Chaplin and actress Paulette Goddard - (17:35) Alistair Cooke is known for his radio programs and Masterpiece Theater but he was also one of the few in media that Chaplin let into his inner circle at that time. While the three were going to Catalina Island for some R&R (alongside with Andy Anderson ala Keystone Cops fame), the group shot a silent film on Cooke's 8mm camera. Watch Chaplin show off his Greta Garbo and Janet Gaynor imitation.

Also, features an optional new score by Donald Sosin and a new interview with Cooke’s daughter, Susan Cooke Kittredge (13:02). In this 2010 interview, Susan talks about her father and how when she was a child, her father would tell the children of how he shot a film of Chaplin but the kids always thought he was joking. After Cooke's death in 2004, after cleaning the home, they found a canister of the 8mm reel titled "All At Sea" and discusses the relationship of Alistair Cooke and Chaplin and the things she remembered told by him to her.

*The Rink (1916), a Chaplin two-reeler - (24:14) The eighth short film of the 12 that Charlie Chaplin made for Mutual Films, "The Rink" is presented in HD.

*For the First Time - (9:10) In 1967, filmmaker Octavio Cortazar and filmed a short Cuban documentary about a traveling moving picture company that shows films in remote areas where people have never watched a film in their lives. In this documentary, we see people who live in the mountains of Cuba watching their first film ever... Chaplin's "Modern Times".

*Chaplin Today: “Modern Times” - (27:24) Director Philippe Truffault created a documentary in 2003 starring filmmakers Jean-Pierre and Luc Dardenne (directors of "L'enfant", "Rosetta", "La Promesse") who are big Chaplin fans and love the film "Modern Times". The two talk about why they love the film, their favorite scenes and how Chaplin inspired them a little for their 1999 film "Rosetta". Presented in French and English with English subtitles.

EXTRAS: Included is a 36-page booklet with photos of Charlie Chaplin, Paulette Goddard and essays: "Exit the Tramp" by Saul Austerlitz (author of "Another Fine Mess: A History of American Film Comedy"), "Chaplin Sees the World" by Lisa Stein (who is writing a biography about Charlie's half brother, Sydney Chaplin which is forthcoming).

[Doug Sulpy]

It may look great, but it's not all there. What a wasted opportunity.

I disagree, but to each their own. I can easily understand why fans are upset. But the Criterion Collection has pretty much focused on releasing films to what the directors wanted. And yes, many fans of the original release are not happy with the change that Chaplin made by eliminating part of that scene but it's a change he made back in 1954.

At the risk of sounding redundant, it was also Chaplin's "decision" to edit the film as it was in 1936. Why, exactly, should his decision to alter the film in 1954 (long after his creative peak) be respected? Why not respect the decision of the artist who made the original version of the film? I'm not sure whose decision it actually was, but if David O. Selznick had made the call to re-frame "Gone With The Wind" into widescreen in 1954, would you support that, too?

[kndy]

At the risk of sounding redundant, it was also Chaplin's "decision" to edit the film as it was in 1936. Why, exactly, should his decision to alter the film in 1954 (long after his creative peak) be respected? Why not respect the decision of the artist who made the original version of the film? I'm not sure whose decision it actually was, but if David O. Selznick had made the call to re-frame "Gone With The Wind" into widescreen in 1954, would you support that, too?

I would have imagined that after the re-release in 1954....from the 50's through 70's, fans must have been vocal about this change. I'm actually quite curious, has this question been posed to him after that re-release when he was alive?

I notice this is the argument that people use that it was long after his creative peak or he was old and he didn't know what he was doing. Come on...that's just less than minute worth of footage, there must be a reason why he deleted it? He didn't like the dance for that single sequence? He didn't like how his socks were showing?

Watching it on Blu-ray, personally, I didn't really miss it. But once again, to each their own because I know there are a lot of people who are passionate about this but still, if you have a Blu-ray player and have an HDTV, you just have to give this film a try.

Last, you can still have the best of both worlds with the old Image DVD and new Criterion release. I know some of you have actively boycotted this upcoming release of "Modern Times" but at least give it a chance. (Especially now that the Barnes & Noble 50% off is happening this month and you can literally get the Blu-ray and DVD for cheap!)

[sc1957]

I'm currently watching my review copy of "Modern Times" and wow...it really looks very good on Blu-ray.

Thanks for the details. I'm looking forward to this.

[WaverBoy]

Last, you can still have the best of both worlds with the old Image DVD and new Criterion release.

The best of both worlds? Hardly. I can either have the film complete in standard def, or incomplete in hi-def. Which means I can have the best of one world (SD) and the worst of the other (HD). Having an incomplete Chaplin classic when the complete one is available is useless to me, as I'd never ever watch it. It would gather dust on the shelf.

I know it's a minute's worth of footage, but we're not talking an insignificant trim here. We're talking about a prime bit of Charlie's pantomime comedy in one of his most beloved films. The blu would be great up until that moment, and then I'd go DAMMIT, I sure wish I was watching the Image disc...

[Jack Theakston]

I would have imagined that after the re-release in 1954....from the 50's through 70's, fans must have been vocal about this change. I'm actually quite curious, has this question been posed to him after that re-release when he was alive?

Judging from reviews, most fans in the early '50s were less conscious of the change, and welcomed another screening of one of their favorite films, in one format or another.

Likewise, few filmmakers in general seemed to understand the value of film as it was originally released and many had no problems making permanent alterations to the original negatives and elements, such as Selznick with the re-framing of several shots and having the color completely re-timed in GONE WITH THE WIND.

Alterations continue to happen regularly to films and probably always will. Those of you lucky enough to have seen original prints of films may notice that timing in both black and white and color are drastically different sometimes than their video counterparts. The reasons for this range from ignorance of the department in charge of re-mastering the films to placating the general public.

All of this is a moot point. The reason the films released by Criterion are the "daddy versions" are because of the Chaplin Estate, of course. It's either their versions or no deal.

[kndy]

I just listened to David Robinson's audio commentary and he does touch upon the reasoning of the cut and that Chaplin felt that audiences of that time may get bored and may have felt the song went too long and Robinson interjects that he felt Chaplin was wrong in cutting that scene.

Very informative and enjoyable commentary track by the way!