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silentfilm wrote:Yep, I've got both of the Milestone and David Shepard/Image DVDs, plus I used to have the Shepard/Image and George Eastman House laserdiscs. The Milestone extras are terrific.

This title seems like a no-brainer for release on BluRay. I'm surprised that it has not been released on the format yet.

I'm not surprised; obviously there's more work that needs to be done on this baby before that happens.

Is there any edition that inserts the 2-colour Tech footage into the '25 print? That's what I'd really be looking for in any new version.

-Harold

Harold Aherne wrote:Is there any edition that inserts the 2-colour Tech footage into the '25 print? That's what I'd really be looking for in any new version.

-Harold

I've never heard of one; the '25 versions floating around are from the Show-at-Home prints, which didn't include the Tech footage. It would seem easy enough, however, for someone to insert it into their version of the '25 version. Surely a selling point for the next Ultimate Phantom version...

The ReelclassicDVD release's disc 4 has the 1925 show-at-home version with the color footage inserted into it.

Ben

silentfilmmusic wrote:The ReelclassicDVD release's disc 4 has the 1925 show-at-home version with the color footage inserted into it.

Ben

And I have that! Guess I haven't watched it yet

silentfilmmusic wrote:The ReelclassicDVD release's disc 4 has the 1925 show-at-home version with the color footage inserted into it.

Ben

Unfortunately, it's not in as good of shape as the '25 cut on the Milestone DVD. But it does have an excellent organ score. :-)

One thing the laser had that seems to have been lost along the way is the original script.

I hope that makes the transition to some future edition, as it's interesting (and heartbreaking) to see how much better a film it would have been if they had stuck to the original.

" The eyes and brains of some of us just don't notice picture motion anomalies/flaws/etc., no matter how prominent."

I'm not sure what to make of this stupid comment....

However, coming from someone who has a history of finding some fault with every release on home video...I'll ignore it.

WaverBoy wrote:The eyes and brains of some of us just don't notice picture motion anomalies/flaws/etc., no matter how prominent. I really wish I was one of these people sometimes. My girlfriend doesn't seem to notice this stuff either.

Maybe that's why she's sticking with you!

Only joking! Honest!

Wasn't UCLA supposed to do a restoration of the 1925 "show at home" cut, at some point ?

I've read this somewhere, bu a long time ago, thought...

Scoundrel wrote:" The eyes and brains of some of us just don't notice picture motion anomalies/flaws/etc., no matter how prominent."

I'm not sure what to make of this stupid comment....

However, coming from someone who has a history of finding some fault with every release on home video...I'll ignore it.

I apologize if any offense was taken; I certainly meant no slight. It's just like some people don't notice the slightly higher pitch of a film due to PAL speedup. And there's nothing wrong with that. As I said, I wish I didn't notice it.

As for your last comment, that's not true, as I've praised many releases on this board, and only had an issue with three or four.

Arndt wrote:

WaverBoy wrote:The eyes and brains of some of us just don't notice picture motion anomalies/flaws/etc., no matter how prominent. I really wish I was one of these people sometimes. My girlfriend doesn't seem to notice this stuff either.

Maybe that's why she's sticking with you!

Only joking! Honest! :lol:

My video shelves tend to get a bit out of control for her taste, but she hasn't kicked me out yet. :-)

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see this on blu soon. Given that DVD is starting to dry up in favor of the latter format, and that these license agreements require renegotiating for a high def release, I'd imagine they purposefully let it lapse in anticipation of a remaster and HD release. Warner's did the same recently, yanking both "Citizen Kane" and "Ben Hur" from distribution in preparation for new remastered releases due in 2011.

For public showings, the ONLY acceptable version is the '29 reissue. I've suffered through public showings of the '25 version and the quality is horrible compared to the '29 version, which, despite the missing scenes looks wonderful on a theatre screen projected with professional digital equipment.

I have rarely seen ANY silent film transfer derived from 16mm that was something I would show to someone who paid admission! Even actual 16mm film falls far short of acceptable viewing when blown up larger than 8 feet wide--impossible to get a good focus when you magnify that small of a frame of film.

For standard TV screens, the 16mm transfers are acceptable, and despite being all we have in most cases, are not as enjoyable to watch as a clean 35mm transfer. True fine-grain 16mm prints are VERY rare!

Another case in point is HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME--horrible quality even in its "Ultimate" version. Here again, derived from a show-at-home 16mm that was rough and grainy.

16mm was designed for small-screen home, school and business projection and it falls far short for theatrical large screen exhibition.

As an exhibitor, assembling and projecting a movie program is like serving a fine dinner to my guests--I won't feed them dupey, soft-focus or dark "slop"!

As I recall from viewings at the Silent Movie Theater in the 70's, the Hampton 16mm print is the best I've ever seen of '25. As mentioned earlier, he compiled it from several prints to get it as good as he could.

I do hope that UCLA is working on that one.

Marr&Colton wrote:...Another case in point is HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME--horrible quality even in its "Ultimate" version. Here again, derived from a show-at-home 16mm that was rough and grainy.

Maybe so, but it's far from "horrible" - and a vast improvement over earlier issues. Would I prefer to see "The Hunchback" from a pristine 35mm print? Sure. Who wouldn't? But since a 35mm print doesn't exist (pristine or otherwise), I'm satisfied that they did the best they could with the best quality material that still exists.

[quote="Doug Sulpy" ]I'm satisfied that they did the best they could with the best quality material that still exists.[/quote]

I completely agree there are details in the Ultimate Hunchback I have never seen before.

Same with Milestone's '25 POTO. Is it as clear as I remember Hampton's print? No, but it's so much better than any other one I've seen. I was beginning to think I would never have a watchable print of '25.

Why doesn't somebody release the 1925 version, replacing the 16mm footage with the pristine 35mm stuff from the '29 version where possible?

From what I've been told, by those who know more than me, is that there are so many differences in the shots that survive in both versions that it wouldn't really work.

It probably wouldn't be as jarring as the new material in Metropolis but still not a pristine recreation of '25. But again, that's only what I've been told.

A poster on the MonsterKid forum reports he's been in touch with Milestone who say they are preparing a new ultimate version, with additional footage including more Technicolor!

Here's the link... The poster's reply is #11

http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuk ... fiweqN5mSM

Does anyone know anything about this? I wasn't aware of any new footage being found that isn't in the Milestone, except a fragment on Mark Roth's excellent 4 disc set. Unless they're referring to the Man with Lantern sequence which wasn't on the Photoplay Restoration. in any event, none of that is Technicolor.

Unless they are talking about the 25 version, and will be inserting the Tech footage into that.

John

I might as well tell the world that we are just completing production on a new edition of that old warhorse, POTO, for release through Image Entertainment in early October.

This will be Blu-Ray, mastered at Movietone aperture from much better 35mm material than we have ever used before. There will be two complete runs of the 1929 version: one at 24 fps with a new score by the Alloy Orchestra and an optional score on theatre pipe organ by Gaylord Carter, previously issued in monaural but now in stereo from the original master stereo recording; the second run at 20 fps with orchestra/soprano score by Gabriel Thibadeau and an optional new audio essay by Jon Mirsalis. Both runs will include the Technicolor sequence mastered from our 35mm YCM labs negative and hand colored scenes on the opera roof and in the scene of "intolerable heat." The program will also include a standard definition transfer of the original 1925 edit from a tinted 16mm print in the usual deplorable quality but with a superb new score by Frederick Hodges. Extras will include (as still images) set construction and production stills, publicity stills, original advertising art, frames from a stencil-colored French release, and the complete script.

David Shepard

That's great news. Although I've already had several different versions of this, going back to the Eastman House and FPA laserdisc versions, I'll definitely pick up this BluRay version. I'll still keep the Milestone "Ultimate" version because of the excellent extra programs on it.

Would the Milestone version be preferable to Mark Roth's version?

David, that's brilliant news and thank you for taking the decision to release on BD.

While I love Carl Davis's score on the Milestone DVD, I welcome the inclusion of two new scores. If your previous releases are anything to go by, this is going to be a blinder.

Michael - are you referring to the 29 or 25 cut on Mark's DVDs? The 29 cut was mastered from 16mm, in which case I can't believe this new edition will not be significantly better, and the existing Milestone has the edge on the 25 version included in Mark's set. I'd be surprised if the 25 cut was worse than on the existing Milestone. Mark's set is still well worth owning, for the score on the 25, the comparison, and the other extras.

Does the Milestone contain both the 25 and the 29?

Do you have a link to purchase info for Mark's set?

DShepFilm wrote:I might as well tell the world that we are just completing production on a new edition of that old warhorse, POTO, for release through Image Entertainment in early October.

This will be Blu-Ray, mastered at Movietone aperture from much better 35mm material than we have ever used before. There will be two complete runs of the 1929 version: one at 24 fps with a new score by the Alloy Orchestra and an optional score on theatre pipe organ by Gaylord Carter, previously issued in monaural but now in stereo from the original master stereo recording; the second run at 20 fps with orchestra/soprano score by Gabriel Thibadeau and an optional new audio essay by Jon Mirsalis. Both runs will include the Technicolor sequence mastered from our 35mm YCM labs negative and hand colored scenes on the opera roof and in the scene of "intolerable heat." The program will also include a standard definition transfer of the original 1925 edit from a tinted 16mm print in the usual deplorable quality but with a superb new score by Frederick Hodges. Extras will include (as still images) set construction and production stills, publicity stills, original advertising art, frames from a stencil-colored French release, and the complete script.

David Shepard

WOW...this really sounds like a PHANTOM release that will please everybody. And nice to see Mr. Carter's organ score resurrected; I first heard it on the Super 8 print I got from Blackhawk many moons ago. Can't wait to put this one on my shelf. A million thanks, Mr. Shepard & Co.

The existing Milestone contains both 25 and 29.

Mark's set can be purchased here:
http://reelclassicdvd.com/silent_era.htm

You need to scroll down to near the bottom.

John-Paul wrote:The existing Milestone contains both 25 and 29.
Mark's set can be purchased here:
http://reelclassicdvd.com/silent_era.htm
You need to scroll down to near the bottom.

Milestone's DVD is out-of-print right now but a BD edition is in the works for next year. There's a few more surprises, hopefully, and reason to have several copies. Congrats to David S. and I'm looking forward to seeing his edition!

DShep, wanna tell us what else you guys are working on???

milefilms wrote:

John-Paul wrote: Milestone's DVD is out-of-print right now but a BD edition is in the works for next year. There's a few more surprises, hopefully, and reason to have several copies. Congrats to David S. and I'm looking forward to seeing his edition!

Battle of the Phantoms!