Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Technically-oriented discussion of classic films on everything from 35mm to Blu-Ray
All Darc
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Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by All Darc » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:11 am

I would like to rais e a thematic about digital theater, digital projection, the quality of the projector used and the digital files used for the films.
Some people clains some digital theater can be just like watch a HD blu ray.

Tell me about your experience...

We see technology for 4K TV and 4K blu Rays (despite mostly converted form 2K mastes), but theater with just 2K resolution and even some arfects noticeable here and there.
Sounds like a joke...
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fwtep
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by fwtep » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:54 am

2K and 4k both look spectacular in a theater.

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MoviecollectorOH
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by MoviecollectorOH » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:08 pm

Apples and oranges. In our theaters they do pre-show commercials on a consumer-cost-affordable-grade projector, and the difference is like night and day when they turn on their consumer-cost-prohibitive-grade projector. :lol:

Unfortunately smaller theaters go out of business over the price of these things...

P.S. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that these high end theater projectors would probably make SD (720x480) video look spectacular.
Last edited by MoviecollectorOH on Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by coolcatdaddy » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:47 pm

I still remember the 90s when some universities would show projected laserdiscs, rather than 16mm prints, in auditorium settings for their revival film series for classes. With line doubling and everything set up just right, it could look quite good.

All Darc
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by All Darc » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:06 am

Yes, laserdisc can look godd. Even a prime VHS (if top quality recorded from great master wel telecined ) looked acceptable in a good CRT TV. VHS recorded from a great DVD looks fine on CRT.

What I tried to say is that they advertise something as perfect and way better than chemical film, they must do it right.

I can watch a prime VHS on a CRT TV. But I cannot watch HD broadcast with waxy details and a whole bunch of artefacts and insane lost of details with motion (even medium motion).

I just do not accept a hoax. If you pay me 100 dolars to watch HD broadcast like that on a LCD/LED screen for two weaks, I will refuse.

Would you like to pay for a 35mm print and receive a 16mm print ?
Would you like to watch a print in 5mm that change to 16mm or less during any motiong scene ?
That's how I feel all these digital HD broadcast...
Last edited by All Darc on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Arndt
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by Arndt » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:45 am

All Darc wrote: If you pay me 100 dolars to watch HD broadcast like taht on a LCD/LED screen for two weaks, I will refuse.
Has anybody made you such an offer? Because I would be up for it. Like a shot, in fact.
"The greatest cinematic experience is the human face and it seems to me that silent films can teach us to read it anew." - Wim Wenders

All Darc
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by All Darc » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:46 am

Would you be up to accept the offer or to make a offer.
I would not accept. Honestly, I cannot tollerate the plus of LCD/LED + Digital garbage HD broacast. I tried, but it irritates me a lot.

Have you ever heard about Elvis and the story about he shoot a TV ??? Well, I feel like Elvis when I watch these things... :lol:
Arndt wrote:
All Darc wrote: If you pay me 100 dolars to watch HD broadcast like taht on a LCD/LED screen for two weaks, I will refuse.
Has anybody made you such an offer? Because I would be up for it. Like a shot, in fact.
Keep thinking...

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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by Phototone » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:09 pm

2k theatrical digital projection is better than Bluray. Slightly more pixels and better accommodation for wide-screen, using the whole imager in the projector, which is then stretched optically just like film. Also the digital "film paks" are not compressed like Blueray and cable HD are, so far fewer, if any, artifacts. Home theater HD projectors have their imager built for 16:9 ratio images, thus CinemaScope films are presented in a letterbox format, which doesn't use the whole imager to produce the picture.

All Darc
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by All Darc » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:27 am

Movies, films, it's ended for me until somone creates something decent. Right now I don't find any digital TV decent, nor any digital media, specially broadcast and streaming. Blu-ray have artefifacts and banding (some due limitation 256 tones per color channel but most from compression).
I don't like theater, since all here in my citiy are in shoppping centers, placeI don't like, and I don't know if it's digital or not.
Honestly I never liked color film projection by chemical film. Colors look poor, not satureted, shadow details also looks poor, sharpness also poor. Maybe due overduplication, since it's a print made from a indeternegative, made from a interpositive, made from the camera negative, and in fast continuous film printer. Maybe also projectionist don't care for the best possible focus... I don't know...

Digital projection... I don't want even to try it, risk to waste money in a ticket to find out the quality it's a garbage... I did a phone call to a movie theater and the person in the phone didn'y know inform if the projector was digital. That was enough for me to stay away from such place. Dumb sh...t places.
Besides, movies here, the tiles, it's just the blockbusters, 95% crap.

I don't even watch TV anylonger. No ore watching the news on a living room TV, since now it's LCD, and I can't look to it without get very disgusted. I only tolerate watch news on computer, and this only if in a small window, since no streaming of LCD/LED display it's worth watch anyting in full screen.

Phototone wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:09 pm
2k theatrical digital projection is better than Bluray. Slightly more pixels and better accommodation for wide-screen, using the whole imager in the projector, which is then stretched optically just like film. Also the digital "film paks" are not compressed like Blueray and cable HD are, so far fewer, if any, artifacts. Home theater HD projectors have their imager built for 16:9 ratio images, thus CinemaScope films are presented in a letterbox format, which doesn't use the whole imager to produce the picture.
Keep thinking...

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16millimeter
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by 16millimeter » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Interesting thread ..
Phototone wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:09 pm
2k theatrical digital projection is better than Bluray. Slightly more pixels and better accommodation for wide-screen, using the whole imager in the projector, which is then stretched optically just like film. Also the digital "film paks" are not compressed like Blueray and cable HD are, so far fewer, if any, artifacts.
regarding the 'film paks' DCP's i presume , any idea what the typical file size in GB of an 90 minute movie would be ?

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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:17 pm

Honestly I never liked color film projection by chemical film.
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MoviecollectorOH
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by MoviecollectorOH » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 pm

16millimeter wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:33 pm
Interesting thread ..
Phototone wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:09 pm
2k theatrical digital projection is better than Bluray. Slightly more pixels and better accommodation for wide-screen, using the whole imager in the projector, which is then stretched optically just like film. Also the digital "film paks" are not compressed like Blueray and cable HD are, so far fewer, if any, artifacts.
regarding the 'film paks' DCP's i presume , any idea what the typical file size in GB of an 90 minute movie would be ?
Not to be confused with the minor difference in aspect ratio between 16:9 home video (1.78:1) and cinema (1.85:1).

Not sure on the exact spec of a 'film pak', but let's assume it is completely raw and uncompressed 2K. It is normal to have at least 100x compression (from 3000 Mb/s 1920x1080p at 24fps uncompressed raw video) to fit onto a Blu-Ray disc. Or to simplify, take the average data size of a 90 min movie on a Blu-Ray disc and multiply by 100 or slightly more. (Would probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of upper GB or single digit TB) Though this is derivative so it could still be way off. :lol:

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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by Marr&Colton » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:47 pm

Aside from all the technical specs and discussion, in the 60-some years I have been watching movies in theatres,
WHAT THE MOVIE LOOKS LIKE ON THE SCREEN is the most important criteria.

(How far you sit from the screen is also critical)

I have owned a movie theatre, had many home theatres over the years and done classic movies in commercial theatres. I have collected 16mm as well as 35mm in years past and here are my conclusions:

16mm film: if the print is original and very sharp, looks good on screens under 8 feet wide, unless shown with
high quality commercial arc or xenon projection and super high end lenses---even then the physics of a tiny frame magnified on a large screen eventually passes a quality point.

35mm film: print quality varies on classic safety film reissues---some prints are so soft or light contrast,
they aren't much better than 16mm. Some are magnificent---even technicolor prints vary: some are super sharp while others are grainy.

Digital: High intensity digital projection is much better now than ever--if the source is a super clean transfer of a sharp fine grained master, the quality is equal to or better than good 35mm.

Yes, we all know of exceptions, but this is the general experience I have had.

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Donald Binks
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Re: Digital Theater. A Hoax ??? Just a big TV ???

Unread post by Donald Binks » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:36 pm

Many moons ago I used to attend the "Melbourne Film Festival" when the films were screened in the cavernous "Palais Pictures". I always opted to sit "upstairs" and sometimes my seat was a long way away from the stage. I don't know what equipment they utilised, but I am sure they would have had the best prints available for screening including those on 16mm. To me, everything was crystal clear and the sound quality equally good.

It is therefore my considered opinion, based, as most of them are, completely devoid of any relevant facts, that the older cinema buildings were much better suited for the purpose than the new "complexes". I suppose too, back then there were more competent people in charge of projection and older style machines that could do the job really well?

I have many fond memories of those times....
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