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Looks like Kino will be releasing a 2-disc collection of Buster's Educational output from the mid-30s on 6 July (the date comes from Amazon; Kino doesn't yet include it on their page).

This is probably the part of Keaton's career I'm least familiar with and while the Educationals don't enjoy the reputation of his earlier work, the little trailer on Kino's site does show some amusing moments. Any other thoughts on these?

-Harold

Not Buster's best work, but a couple like GRAND SLAM OPERA are pretty good and one or two others, like THE GOLD GHOST have some very interesting moments. Buster is always an interesting comic actor, even when being buffeted on order of Jules White.

Bob

I don't think I've seen any...... I'll be buying

I think they are a cut above the Columbias when Buster was actually being buffeted by Jules White. I love Kino's trailer but it kind of implies that the Educationals are little more than a series of spectacular falls. There are lots of well-constructed gag sequences, some of which are reprises from Buster's silents and some original. I can't imagine any comedy buff not enjoying these. And Grand Slam Opera is a worthy successor to the silent shorts.

They're definitely worth having--I see they are transferred from 35mm so they should be very enjoyable.

Educational Pictures was an interesting company....began doing 2-reelers in the 20s and even made a few features.
Their 30s output was distributed through Fox, and I believe most of their films have fallen into the public domain.

They did many comedy/musical 2-reelers that survive today, thanks to companies like Official Films that released them to the home market back in the 40s and 50s. The content, though was a different story: some were quite good, but most quite uneven--and often unbearable. They did give us lots of film record of Vaudevillians like Bert Lahr and of course, Keaton.

Oh, crap, not Kino. That means there will be no captions.


Jim

Marr&Colton wrote:They're definitely worth having--I see they are transferred from 35mm so they should be very enjoyable.

Educational Pictures was an interesting company....began doing 2-reelers in the 20s and even made a few features.
Their 30s output was distributed through Fox, and I believe most of their films have fallen into the public domain.

Actually, most of their post-1933 product is still under copyright. Maurice Zoary owns them, and in fact, questioned the ownership Rohauer claimed to have on the Keaton Educationals, which, as with so much of Rohauer's so-called ownership, is certainly suspect to say the least. But it will be nice to see material that does not derive from the Zoary negs. Perhaps we'll finally get to see Buster sing "So Long Elmer" in GRAND SLAM OPERA without the splice in the middle of the song which cuts a line or two in most circulating prints.

I think Keaton's Educationals are some of Busters best talkie work. They are certainly more in tune with Buster's style than the Columbias are, though it is also interesting watching Buster try to fit his own style into Jules White's at Columbia.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Richard,

As a researcher into PD films, can you give any further information who Maurice Zoary is, and how he came to own the rights to Educational Films?

All I ever heard was, when Educational went out of business in the late 30s, their product became (like so many independents) orphaned.

I know Raymond Rohauer's claims on some previously--and still solidly public domain titles--were through possession of prints and not through actual contractural rights.

Marr&Colton wrote:Richard,

As a researcher into PD films, can you give any further information who Maurice Zoary is, and how he came to own the rights to Educational Films?

All I ever heard was, when Educational went out of business in the late 30s, their product became (like so many independents) orphaned.

I know Raymond Rohauer's claims on some previously--and still solidly public domain titles--were through possession of prints and not through actual contractural rights.

Well, like a number of independents, Educational's product was sold in bankruptcy to whomever was willing to buy those rights. Zoary was an early television distributor who picked those comedies up and marketed them in the 50's to the syndication market. Sadly, most of Educational's original negative materials had gone up in the 1937 Fox vault fire, so Zoary's prints were mostly made up from secondary materials: fine grains, old positive prints, and are less than sparkling, but at least preserved.

Last I heard, Maurice Zoary was still alive, and he has been trying to sell the Educational materials for a number of years, but wants a ridiculous price for them. He also owns materials on some other interesting items like a number of Lee Deforest Phonofilms, and his collection is housed at the Library of Congress.


Rohauer also frequently claimed rights ownership through some very rocky setups, quit- claims through relatives of stars who really had no rights in the first place, original story rights, etc., that made for an interesting lost lawsuit or two in the 1970's. You'll find few who disagree that Rohauer was a total scum, if they remember him at all today,which is really the best revenge on his memory.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

"You'll find few who disagree that Rohauer was a total scum, if they remember him at all today,which is really the best revenge on his memory. "


Rohauer was a skunk..but without him how much of Buster's legacy would have survived...?

Rohauer also saved those beautiful out takes that form the bulk of UNKNOWN CHAPLIN as well.

Even skunks have some value..but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with one.

For a skunk he sure is getting a lot of 'footage' these days on various sites. He was as described though and a sad and lonely man, somewhat obnoxious.

I worked in Germany at a music publisher(the ancient firm of Breitkopf & Haertel orig. from Leipzig and bombed out, with descendants still working there a few centuries later) for a few months late in 1970 after a factory accident back home in Australia. In early 1971 I went to England to find work for another few months until after easter when I was going to Detroit for a meeting with close relatives I had only met one of. I had been given the name & address of a former British Film Institute employee named Bert Langdon by the BFI before I left for London. I wrote & Bert asked me to call and see him. He was living with his wife, May & son, David in a Kentish Town flat upstairs. He had had a stroke at least a year before I met him which left him with one bum arm. After twelve months the BFI had to write and close his employment as it was clear he would not be back which hurt him but it was a fact of life in this case and he got 10 years life out of it until about March 1980.

His job, after a life in a Camden Town piano manufacturing factory where he also lived in flat at the time, was in the National Film Theatre(NFT) where he prepared film for screenings and often went by taxi to collect films from vaults. He did not drive. One day Rohauer came in with a reel of film that was strips to be added to MGM distributed 1920s Keaton silents telling the world that the films belonged to him and must be on the front. There was only a demand, no letter of authority, no going thru the management of the BFI, just straight to a lowly BFI employee with no managerial authority. Bert saw Rohauer as he was, a bum of the first order. I don't know if the footage got added to the BFI prints at that time.
Bert was a man bitter by what life had done to him with a chip on the shoulder and dislike of 1970s youth and their behavior. He always believed if he made contact when the London Underground had posters cfalling for people to come to Queensland/Australia and run farms he would not have had his stroke. However he was a fair man and lots of friends who still involved them in their film parties and the showing of old films. I met some of this circle and some were still employed as projectionists around the city. They were collectors and had 35mm at home. Often they got prints because of the fact that prints get damaged in the cinema and a new reel was needed. Often a complete new multi reel copy came and they did not pick up the damaged print or reel. So they took the old one home and repaired it and that, they said, was how many films are saved before wear and tear thru multiple screenings.

When a son of a former Wardour Street independent renter/distributor came to tell Bert his father died Bert was none to subtle with his remarks about the deceased who was a typical shark in the business.

In one case Rohauer claimed rights to a film from the original book's writer's widow and claimed so in court. Trouble was that the book was written by a woman!

I do enjoy my Keatons and have ordered the Kino set. I would like to see a collection of Educational come out but there might be little sale. I have seen a few 16mm reels I liked from the 1930s. I don't recall seeing any Educational features.

Scoundrel wrote:"You'll find few who disagree that Rohauer was a total scum, if they remember him at all today,which is really the best revenge on his memory. "


Rohauer was a skunk..but without him how much of Buster's legacy would have survived...?

Rohauer also saved those beautiful out takes that form the bulk of UNKNOWN CHAPLIN as well.

Even skunks have some value..but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with one.

You know, for years I used some of the same defense on Rohauer, but the reality is that Buster Keaton's silent work would have been rediscovered with or without Rohauer, and if someone like Paul Killiam had done it instead, perhaps Keaton would have gotten a better financial shake from those reissues. Also, access to those and many other films Rohauer kept hostage could have been better, with less crazy restrictions and deliberately inferior prints to keep his control even tighter. Rohauer was a greedy and unethical oportunist, far from the only one in this game, but definitely one of the worst, and many others would have picked up the ball if he hadn't slimed in first.

Imagine if Robert Youngson had cut a deal with Keaton Rohauerless and been able to make THE FURTHER PERILS OF BUSTER KEATON? And if Rollie Totheroh was shopping around those Chaplin outtakes, there would have been another bidder, and perhaps they wouldn't have sat languishing and decomposing for several decades before being allowed to be copied just in the nick of time.

No,the best thing about Raymond Rohauer is that fewer and fewer people remember him, or even know who he is. One of the greatest examples of the truth that it's really the films that matter, and they will indeed outlive and outlast all of us, no matter what steps anyone takes to control them to their own selfish ends. Calling him a skunk is insulting to the skunks, I stick with monikering him a scum thank you.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

The splice in GRAND SLAM OPERA's opening song was in the negative as far back as 1942; I've seen prints dating from both 1942 and 1945, and the splice was there in each case.

I like the Educationals very much. GRAND SLAM OPERA is wonderful and BLUE BLAZES is my #2. (Keaton himself staged three of them, with writer Raymond Kane getting director credit. These were shot at Educational's New York studio.)

Scott MacGillivray wrote:The splice in GRAND SLAM OPERA's opening song was in the negative as far back as 1942; I've seen prints dating from both 1942 and 1945, and the splice was there in each case.

I like the Educationals very much. GRAND SLAM OPERA is wonderful and BLUE BLAZES is my #2. (Keaton himself staged three of them, with writer Raymond Kane getting director credit. These were shot at Educational's New York studio.)

The three Keaton Educationals that were shot in New York were THE CHEMIST, MIXED MAGIC, and BLUE BLAZES. GRAND SLAM OPERA was shot in Hollywood.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Richard M Roberts wrote: You know, for years I used some of the same defense on Rohauer, but the reality is that Buster Keaton's silent work would have been rediscovered with or without Rohauer, and if someone like Paul Killiam had done it instead, perhaps Keaton would have gotten a better financial shake from those reissues.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

I think it is important to keep in mind that Eleanor Keaton was always very clear about the fact that she felt Rohauer treated Buster more than fairly. She also said that she continued to receive quarterly checks from RR.

I have no idea what kind of a deal Rohauer had with Buster, but I do know that Eleanor was always very emphatic about this. It should be remembered that Buster did not own his films. Rohauer spent a lot of time and money unraveling the legal mess that was Buster Keaton Productions. It is speculative at best as to whether Paul Killiam or anyone else would have had the tenacity that RR had in this regard.

In any event, Eleanor always said how much she appreciated Rohauer's efforts and the fact that she continued to receive income long after Buster had passed away.

azjazzman wrote:

Richard M Roberts wrote: You know, for years I used some of the same defense on Rohauer, but the reality is that Buster Keaton's silent work would have been rediscovered with or without Rohauer, and if someone like Paul Killiam had done it instead, perhaps Keaton would have gotten a better financial shake from those reissues.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

I think it is important to keep in mind that Eleanor Keaton was always very clear about the fact that she felt Rohauer treated Buster more than fairly. She also said that she continued to receive quarterly checks from RR.

I have no idea what kind of a deal Rohauer had with Buster, but I do know that Eleanor was always very emphatic about this. It should be remembered that Buster did not own his films. Rohauer spent a lot of time and money unraveling the legal mess that was Buster Keaton Productions. It is speculative at best as to whether Paul Killiam or anyone else would have had the tenacity that RR had in this regard.

In any event, Eleanor always said how much she appreciated Rohauer's efforts and the fact that she continued to receive income long after Buster had passed away.

Well, if she had had a good accountant and attorney to look into what Rohauer was actually making as opposed to what she was getting, she would have most likely changed her tune. She would always stop anyone from saying an ill word about Rohauer, and it always sounded like she really didn't want to know. Mabel Langdon on the other hand, has very little nice to say about Rohauer, and didn't care who knew it.

I stand by what I said, somebody else would have taken Rohauer's place, and most likely done better by it.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Well, as they might say in song, Rohauer was a "man of wealth and taste." But give the devil his due, he did have taste and with Tim Lanza's help, his collection is pretty valuable historically. And I really liked Paul Killiam and loved visiting his office, but he did do some underhanded things as well. (Not NEARLY as many, but enough...)

One thing I tell friends who become heads of archives is that at some point they will either have to break organizational rules or real laws to save a film, or many films. (And they better know which staff members and competitors will gladly turn them in.) The film business is not for the weak of heart.

milefilms wrote:Well, as they might say in song, Rohauer was a "man of wealth and taste." But give the devil his due, he did have taste and with Tim Lanza's help, his collection is pretty valuable historically. And I really liked Paul Killiam and loved visiting his office, but he did do some underhanded things as well. (Not NEARLY as many, but enough...)

There's plenty of chicanery to go around in this business, no question, but Rohauer was a particularly nasty example, his taste was actually pretty questionable if we wish to go into some of his more lurid obsessions apart from film, and in many respects, he kept more film from being widely available than he made available during his lifetime. It is in fact, Tim Lanza and the Douris Corp who really deserves the credit for correctly preserving and making available much of Rohauers treasures, and in ways that I'm sure are making ol' Raymond's corpse spin. That's why the best revenge is the fact that his name is dimming quickly from the public memory, and that was the one thing that was the most important to him.

As silent film was being rediscovered, Buster Keaton's genius was going to shine through and be rediscovered whether Rohauer had come on the scene or not, especially because Buster was still a public figure and working. It was only a matter of time, and again, with someone like Paul Killiam who was already making inroads into television making silent film more known before the public, it might have been even more profitable and mass market successful with Buster and Eleanor getting a better cut of it. So screw that Devil his due, it really is just the films that matter, and most likely they would have been saved by others with a few more scruple brain cells and less monomania and ego if Rohauer had never existed.

One thing I tell friends who become heads of archives is that at some point they will either have to break organizational rules or real laws to save a film, or many films. (And they better know which staff members and competitors will gladly turn them in.) The film business is not for the weak of heart.

Yep, far too many films were indeed saved by some form of chicanery and bless those who were brave enough to do it, especially to their real life risk and detriment (and dare the others to cast the first stone). But the best thing I ever want to hear someone say about Rohauer is " Raymond Who?".....


RICHARD M ROBERTS

The fact that even casual film buffs can purchase the cream of the Rohauer collection on high-quality DVD at very affordable prices explains that scream from Hell one occasionally hears whenever Kino sells a Keaton box set. Thanks Tim! Thanks Kino!

Okay, I will mention one true Rohauer story. Paul Killiam got a phone call from Bill Everson one day.

"Paul, I got two good news for you. I'm getting married and Rohauer died!"