NitrateVille.com

I'm looking at an ad in the October 25, 1924 Booking Guide Section of the Motion Picture News, wherein I find an ad for Pathe Review, one reel shorts filmed in "incomparable Pathecolor." The subjects are varied, but in this ad they are touting:

"Who are the White Indians?"
"Hunting Wild Animals in India"
"History of Fashion"
"American Cities in Pathecolor"
"Keep Fit"
"Tracing the Origin of Man"

Do any of these reels survive...especially the fashion history reel? I can skip Hunting Wild Animals in India.

Many of the Pathecolor shorts exist and are actually online: http://www.britishpathe.com/" target="_blank

Pathecolor is, of course, stencil color a la CYRANO DE BERGERAC.

Jack Theakston wrote:Many of the Pathecolor shorts exist and are actually online: http://www.britishpathe.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Pathecolor is, of course, stencil color a la CYRANO DE BERGERAC.

Oh squeeee! Lots of fashion!

Many Pathé Review/Pathé-Revue titles can be found on the Gaumont Pathé Archives site, which is the home of the actual producer - http://www.gaumontpathearchives.com. You can see frame still and descriptions, but unfortunately video access is restricted to "broadcasting professionals". Type in "Pathé-Revue" under Keywords.

urbanora wrote:Many Pathé Review/Pathé-Revue titles can be found on the Gaumont Pathé Archives site, which is the home of the actual producer - http://www.gaumontpathearchives.com. You can see frame still and descriptions, but unfortunately video access is restricted to "broadcasting professionals". Type in "Pathé-Revue" under Keywords.

Thanks, I'll explore that link. I think I enjoy these little shorts more than I do feature films.

I wonder if the colorization is accurate or if they just had a "designer" back at the studio who decided what colour certain objects should be?

Interesting question, but all of these fashion films were made with the co-operation of the fashion houses and were intended to promote particular outfits, so one would assume fidelty towards original colours was important.

urbanora wrote:Interesting question, but all of these fashion films were made with the co-operation of the fashion houses and were intended to promote particular outfits, so one would assume fidelty towards original colours was important.

Now that you mention it, I'm not actually sure that couture house ensembles displayed in these little films (especially those dating from 1900-1915 or so) would have been standardized in the same colors, or even the same fabric...although the fabric would have to be something close to the original. I think they were aimed at selling the design itself, which could then be made up in whatever colors or materials the purchaser chose. But don't quote me. Our Greta may know more about that. But the Pathe colorists might have been given a swatch of the original material to help them with color choices. That is an interesting question. Which has just led to a lot more questions.

I doubt that it would have even gotten that involved. Pathe would have basic color guidelines, since the combination of colors were rather limited (four or five at the most), and the range of dye colors were equally limited.

Jack Theakston wrote:I doubt that it would have even gotten that involved. Pathe would have basic color guidelines, since the combination of colors were rather limited (four or five at the most), and the range of dye colors were equally limited.

You mean the couture house would have given Pathe color guidelines, or the Pathe colorists would have had color guidelines from Pathe management?

How did that decision/administration process work? I sort of envision the "Color Director" reviewing the b&w film, then deciding which colors should be used and on what particular bits of the film, and then mixing the colors...or perhaps handing a directive to the "Color Mixer" who mixed sufficient quantities of the chosen colors and distributed said colors in sufficient quantities to the women doing the actual stenciling. There must have been some kind of guide for individual colorists, like a paint-by-numbers guideline, right? Did one woman (Miss Blue) complete one bit on the film and then pass it to another colorist (Miss Green) who colored another spot on the film and then passed it on to another, an assembly line type process, or did each person do an entire film on her own? Choice #2 would have made for more variations between prints, I assume. Do we know how it was done?

Jack Theakston wrote:I doubt that it would have even gotten that involved. Pathe would have basic color guidelines, since the combination of colors were rather limited (four or five at the most), and the range of dye colors were equally limited.

Most period literature mentions up to six colors but its not clear what that means. While it could be a limit in the number of dye colors, I suspect its actually a economical limit based on the cost of cutting stencils and applying the dye. I imagine that there was a fairly broad spectrum of dye colors.

Frederica wrote:You mean the couture house would have given Pathe color guidelines, or the Pathe colorists would have had color guidelines from Pathe management?

How did that decision/administration process work? I sort of envision the "Color Director" reviewing the b&w film, then deciding which colors should be used and on what particular bits of the film, and then mixing the colors...or perhaps handing a directive to the "Color Mixer" who mixed sufficient quantities of the chosen colors and distributed said colors in sufficient quantities to the women doing the actual stenciling. There must have been some kind of guide for individual colorists, like a paint-by-numbers guideline, right? Did one woman (Miss Blue) complete one bit on the film and then pass it to another colorist (Miss Green) who colored another spot on the film and then passed it on to another, an assembly line type process, or did each person do an entire film on her own? Choice #2 would have made for more variations between prints, I assume. Do we know how it was done?.

There are several good on-line descriptions of the actual stencil cutting and dye application process. It went from originally being totally manual to being a fairly mechanized process.

http://bioscopic.wordpress.com/2008/04/ ... -stencils/" target="_blank" target="_blank

http://www.cinerdistan.co.uk/path%C3%A9color.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank


Basically, an individual was assigned one colour and the approriate stencil. However, since they had to colorize every print (and they made about 200 prints) there were dozens of "Miss Blues". Initially there were about 600 people working on the process, with this dwindling to about 300 after the process became more mechanized. Even after the introduction of the mechanized dye application process, there was still the possibility for a fair amount of deviation between prints, as each print still had it own stencil, each of which which were created by a separate individual, as the process was extremely time consuming.

Somewhere, there is a actualtie, showing the process. I believe it my be in the French section of Cinema Europe.

Still, this doesn't resolve the question of the fidelity of the color and who decided what color was to be used.

T0m M wrote: There are several good on-line descriptions of the actual stencil cutting and dye application process. It went from originally being totally manual to being a fairly mechanized process.

http://bioscopic.wordpress.com/2008/04/ ... -stencils/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

http://www.cinerdistan.co.uk/path%C3%A9color.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Basically, an individual was assigned one colour and the approriate stencil. However, since they had to colorize every print (and they made about 200 prints) there were dozens of "Miss Blues". Initially there were about 600 people working on the process, with this dwindling to about 300 after the process became more mechanized. Even after the introduction of the mechanized dye application process, there was still the possibility for a fair amount of deviation between prints, as each print still had it own stencil, each of which which were created by a separate individual, as the process was extremely time consuming.

Somewhere, there is a actualtie, showing the process. I believe it my be in the French section of Cinema Europe.

Still, this doesn't resolve the question of the fidelity of the color and who decided what color was to be used.

Gracious, I'd read the Bioscope post, the technical parts obviously didn't stick. The machines the women are using in those photos look a wee bit scary...I also note that there are no chairs, so "Miss Blue" must have been standing up all day. Talk about suffering for your art.

The few books I've read on fashion history do mention the films, but usually only give them a paragraph or two. Perhaps the fashion industry viewed the films as an interesting but failed experiment? Or perhaps it reflects a dearth of research on the films from a fashion perspective. There might not be much left in the way of records.

Frederica wrote:Gracious, I'd read the Bioscope post, the technical parts obviously didn't stick. The machines the women are using in those photos look a wee bit scary...I also note that there are no chairs, so "Miss Blue" must have been standing up all day. Talk about suffering for your art.

The few books I've read on fashion history do mention the films, but usually only give them a paragraph or two. Perhaps the fashion industry viewed the films as an interesting but failed experiment? Or perhaps it reflects a dearth of research on the films from a fashion perspective. There might not be much left in the way of records.

Actually, the conditions look very clean and safe. If you look at other silent films depicting industrial jobs in the early 20th century, you'd consider this a dream job. Only the dye applicators are standing. In the 2nd photo, the one with the mezzanine, you'll notice that all the ladies are seated. These are the stencil cutters.

BTW, I went back and checked my copy of Cinema Europe. The section on French Cinema does indeed include a brief clip of girls working on Pathecolor. There's a travelling shot where the camera passes rows of seated girls then cuts to a close-up of stencil cutting.

Frederica wrote:

urbanora wrote:Interesting question, but all of these fashion films were made with the co-operation of the fashion houses and were intended to promote particular outfits, so one would assume fidelty towards original colours was important.

Now that you mention it, I'm not actually sure that couture house ensembles displayed in these little films (especially those dating from 1900-1915 or so) would have been standardized in the same colors, or even the same fabric...although the fabric would have to be something close to the original. I think they were aimed at selling the design itself, which could then be made up in whatever colors or materials the purchaser chose. But don't quote me. Our Greta may know more about that. But the Pathe colorists might have been given a swatch of the original material to help them with color choices. That is an interesting question. Which has just led to a lot more questions.

I'm not an expert on the fashion industry, but my guess is that few women actually purchased couture outfits made by the major designers, and for those that did they would be made to order with the fabric choice and color probably negotiated between the client and designer. The women watching these films would have have enjoyed looking at the fashions, just as they enjoyed looking at the fashions in "society" films worn by the stars. They would be informed about the line and (in this case) colors of the upcoming season so they could take appropriate action on their wardrobes--remember that fashion was much more rigid in those days, and to wear things that were severely out of fashion was quite embarrassing. Though the average woman wasn't in the market for the couture, the lines would be imitated in ready to wear, similar but simplified versions would be marketed as home sewing patterns (and a few designers were beginning to get into that market). Sewing skills were pretty good in those days, and for women that didn't sew, skilled professional dressmakers were abundant and could copy what they'd seen on screen and in magazines.

Coincidentally, while i'm typing this on the right side of my screen i've got a video of "Fig Leaves" playing on the left side. Not sure yet whether the color sequence is there or not, but guess i'll find out.

greta

Isn't there a silent film with a country lass who makes or adapts her own clothes based on current designs from magazines? I'm thinking maybe Johanna Enlists, but it's been a while since I've seen it. Or maybe it was a Lilian Gish film--it was played for comedy in any case. I'm sure the "fashion display" sequences from films served a similar purpose for many home seamstresses, who I'm sure were perfectly capable of making up a dress based on a picture or maybe even a film sequence. There's one of these sequences in Vernon and Irene Castle's The Whirl of Life, where Irene patriotically points out that all of the dresses were made in America. It's outside my area of expertise, but I imagine the style was nevertheless influenced by Paris.

Rodney wrote:Isn't there a silent film with a country lass who makes or adapts her own clothes based on current designs from magazines? I'm thinking maybe Johanna Enlists, but it's been a while since I've seen it. Or maybe it was a Lilian Gish film--it was played for comedy in any case. I'm sure the "fashion display" sequences from films served a similar purpose for many home seamstresses, who I'm sure were perfectly capable of making up a dress based on a picture or maybe even a film sequence. There's one of these sequences in Vernon and Irene Castle's The Whirl of Life, where Irene patriotically points out that all of the dresses were made in America. It's outside my area of expertise, but I imagine the style was nevertheless influenced by Paris.

There was a lot of design cross-fertilization going on even at that time between Paris, London, and New York, but my (hazy) guess is that Paris was still winning the palm d'couture, at least in the public mind. I know that copying of styles was of great concern to designers like Poiret and Lucile, who were both in the vanguard of the "new marketing." Greta is the one to ask about sewing clothing (I can barely handle a button), but I've seen my sister inspect clothing in shops, and then go home and whip up a copy. It's very annoying, the woman could sew an aircraft carrier if she wanted to. There were a lot more women who knew how to sew in those days--older women probably remembered their mothers making the cloth to do the sewing.