Is Maria Newman's music that bad?

[Michael O'Regan]

Ah, Reg is here. I recall him from another forum a few years back.
Welcome here, Reg.

[Jim Roots]

Reg Hartt is one of those cantankerous guys who crabs about everything and has very eccentric opinions (something like Robert Klepper), so I wouldn't worry about him disliking Rodney's work. Rodney, your stuff is aces by me! (Of course, I can't hear any of it, but you don't need to mention that when you're compiling your critical praise scrapbook...)

Jim

Rodney lacked the balls to score THE BIRTH OF A NATION right. Shame on him.

And shame on you Jim Roots. I take it from your post that you are deaf. That is unfortunate. However it automatically disqualifies you to talk about the effect of music and/or sound.

Er, Reg, that is the point. I was making a joke.

I do not crab about everything. I do do my homework.

Yes, you do. That doesn't negate the fact that you are a famously crabby guy, well-known for haranguing and insulting your audience even as you inform and educate them, and that you have many opinions that can be accurately described as eccentric. So what? We all do.

Jim

[Jim Roots]

I submit that Jim Roots, deaf though he may be, is at least as qualified to talk about silent film accompaniment as Reg Hartt

Whoa! Man, no, I would never make that claim for myself!

I am an expert on rock music from the 1960s to about the end of the 1980s, after which point my hearing had deteriorated too far. But even in the 60s and 70s, I could not form any kind of credible opinion on the musical accompaniment to silent films, because they usually used Tin Pan Alley songs, Broadway showtunes, and classical music, none of which were ever my area of expertise. All I could recognize in those fields were Mary Poppins songs and whatever classics I had learned to play on piano or in junior high school band, pre-1972.

If you ever want to set a silent film score to a selection of youthful Lou Reed or Murray McLauchlan songs, I could offer some ideas. Other than that, I'm not qualified to comment or advise on music for films.

Jim

[Jim Roots]

I do not crab about everything. I do do my homework.

Yes, you do.

Just to clarify: I meant, "Yes, Reg, you do do your homework."

For damned near 50 years, I think, Reg has proven he knows his stuff and he works HARD on his presentations and other work. I would never question his credibility in that regard. I grew up in Toronto at the same time Reg was launching his life's work there; I know what he has done.

Likewise, I also know he can be a crab and an eccentric. Just like everybody else!

Jim

[Agnes]

OK, the answer is. YES. !
Maria Newman's scores (so far) are dreadful, & for anyone who values musical accompaniment, they can ruin an otherwise wonderful silent film.

Better to mute the TV & hummmmmmmm.

[NotSoSilent]

I don't normally have a strong opinion about silent film scores (original scores, anyway), but have to say that watching Mr. Wu the other day there was a scene where I wondered why the score didn't match the action on the screen. There was a disconnect. It was painfully obvious. I believe it was an original score by Maria Newman (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). I don't think a score should trump the film. In my humble opinion, a silent film is a film that happens to have a score...not the other way around.

[benjaminvvaughn]

I personally find Ms. Newman's scores to augment these wonderful stories without verbal dialogue. They are delightful and well-synced to picture. Her music adds depth in story telling, as well as an incredibly interesting texture. Are all of you so fixated on the way things used to be done that you have no room for the interpretation of anyone else?

Have you no respect for someone who dared to dream and speak her artistic truth of how these pictures moved her?

Not everyone can, should or will have the same reaction to any artistic work. In fact, art by is very nature is subject to individual interpretation.

I recently came across this message board and most of you all sound like very bitter people, with little imagination. Are you jealous that you can not speak your own creative truth?

Remember Aesop's fable:
"Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves."

Since you don't like Ms. Newman's work, why not write your own scores to picture, instead of speading your libelous criticisms of a person whom you don't even know.

Of course this is a free country and you are welcome to dislike Ms. Newman's work. However, I would advise that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Your criticisms are abusive and slanderous: against the terms of service of this website.

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “NitrateVille.com” is hosted or International Law."

Thanks for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Benjamin V. Vaughn

[drednm]

I'll take fingernails on a chalk board.....

and not liking her music is not abusive, it's not liking her music.

Are all of you so fixated on the way things used to be done that you have no room for the interpretation of anyone else?

and I don't need to see a neon frame on the Mona Lisa..... MY CHOICE.

[entredeuxguerres]

Have you know respect for someone who dared to dream and speak her artistic truth of how these pictures moved her?

That's it...know respect.

[drednm]

Oh a first post..... I smell a rat.

[boblipton]

No one has commented on Ms. Newman as a person; I doubt that anyone here knows anything about Ms. Newman as a person, other than her connection to the well-known Newmans of film composing and in seeing her perform her work. In any case, speaking about Ms Newman in reference to anything but her public behavior would be rude, about as rude as your assertions about our motives, Mr. Vaughn. I also find your implied threats offensive: again, rude. However, this world is full of people who are rude. As I am someone who believes in free speech, I simply note that it is rude and that makes it less intellectually compelling. Do I feel threatened? Mildly. However, I choose to place my faith in the fact that most people who are rude are blowhards and little more.

For the record, and to refresh my memory, I reread this entire thread. I didn't find anything but a range of opinions of Ms. Newman's music. That is her public personna and we are allowed to express our opinions of it. As the topic of the thread and much of its content, including a link to discussion elsewhere, indicates, there are many people who find Ms. Newman's scores for silent movies awful. I am one of them. This is what is known as an opinion. Because it is an opinion, it is protected speech in the United States, where I live, and where this group is based. Because we are discussing Ms. Newman's work as a silent film composer and compiler, it is relevant to this board. I recognize the right of Mike Gebert, as our host, to set the limits of polite discourse and make an effort to get nowhere near those limits.

However, since, in my judgment, you seem to be under the impression that you can set those limits as you please, let me assure you that you can not. I will oppose strenuously and to the limit of my purse any effort you make to do so and will strain it to the utmost to make sure that you are the one who pays for any such effort.

And now, if you wish to indulge in a relatively genial discussion of the merits of Ms. Newman's scores, I am quite anxious to see anything relevant. Feel free to write in an interesting, irreverent manner. I try to do so when I feel I am among friends.

Robert Lipton

[benjaminvvaughn]

No one has commented on Ms. Newman as a person; I doubt that anyone here knows anything about Ms. Newman as a person, other than her connection to the well-known Newmans of film composing and in seeing her perform her work. In any case, speaking about Ms Newman in reference to anything but her public behavior would be rude, about as rude as your assertions about our motives, Mr. Vaughn. I also find your implied threats offensive: again, rude. However, this world is full of people who are rude. As I am someone who believes in free speech, I simply note that it is rude and that makes it less intellectually compelling. Do I feel threatened? Mildly. However, I choose to place my faith in the fact that most people who are rude are blowhards and little more.

For the record, and to refresh my memory, I reread this entire thread. I didn't find anything but a range of opinions of Ms. Newman's music. That is her public personna and we are allowed to express our opinions of it. As the topic of the thread and much of its content, including a link to discussion elsewhere, indicates, there are many people who find Ms. Newman's scores for silent movies awful. I am one of them. This is what is known as an opinion. Because it is an opinion, it is protected speech in the United States, where I live, and where this group is based. Because we are discussing Ms. Newman's work as a silent film composer and compiler, it is relevant to this board. I recognize the right of Mike Gebert, as our host, to set the limits of polite discourse and make an effort to get nowhere near those limits.

However, since, in my judgment, you seem to be under the impression that you can set those limits as you please, let me assure you that you can not. I will oppose strenuously and to the limit of my purse any effort you make to do so and will strain it to the utmost to make sure that you are the one who pays for any such effort.

And now, if you wish to indulge in a relatively genial discussion of the merits of Ms. Newman's scores, I am quite anxious to see anything relevant. Feel free to write in an interesting, irreverent manner. I often do when I feel I am among friends.

Robert Lipton

I challenge you to write a better score for Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm (1917).

[boblipton]

And I challenge you to jump over the moon in your stocking feet. It's just as irrelevant a challenge. I do not claim to be a composer and don't have the ability to compose a decent score for Rebbecca of Sunnybrook Farm. I have not seen the film with Ms. Newman's score. Some people have said they like it.

However, in regards to scores by Ms. Newman which I have heard, I will stand by the words of some wag who noted that he could not lay an egg, but he still knew a bad one when he smelled it. Does anyone recall the source?

Bob

[CoffeeDan]

However, in regards to other works by Ms. Newman, I will stand by the words of some wag who noted that he could not lay an egg, but he still knew a bad one when he smelled it. Does anyone recall the source?

Bob

Sounds like something George Bernard Shaw said: "Although I cannot lay an egg, I am a very good judge of omelettes."

[boblipton]

Thank you, Coffeedan. I fed that into Google and up it popped with Shaw's name attached.

Bob

[Olivia]

I personally find Ms. Newman's scores to augment these wonderful stories without verbal dialogue. They are delightful and well-synced to picture. Her music adds depth in story telling, as well as an incredibly interesting texture.

Thank you, Mr. Vaughn for eloquently saying what was in my heart.

I'm studying music at USC's Thornton School of Music. And, as much as I've enjoyed interpreting music, composing and arranging takes a whole other level of insight and appreciation. To take these skills further and write music to augment the story of a film is even more difficult. I don't understand all this venom that is being spewed towards Ms. Newman at the expense of her career, let alone HER artistic insight. The films I've seen with a Maria Newman original score were wonderful and helped tell the story I was watching.

Everyone has the right to an opinion, but opinions should be grounded in fact. i.e. "I think this egg smells bad. (realizing) Oh, well that's because it's rotten." What's being put forth here is slander. It's just a string of unsubstantiated opinions that are put out there to harm someone else. I would kindly hope people would find a live performance of a film paired with a Maria Newman score and see how the two have a symbiotic relationship. (For the person who said that the score was out of sync were you watching a live performance with Ms. Newman conducting or playing First Chair?)

[entredeuxguerres]

To take these skills further and write music to augment the story of a film is even more difficult.

Very difficult, to be sure; Ms. Newman's film work is proof thereof.

(The Maria Newman Anti-Defamation League strikes back: I love it!)

[Danny Burk]

Everyone has the right to an opinion, but opinions should be grounded in fact. i.e. "I think this egg smells bad. (realizing) Oh, well that's because it's rotten."

If I say that I like red better than blue, that's my opinion. It isn't grounded in fact. That's why it is an OPINION.

Of course we welcome new members at Nitrateville, along with intelligent conversation. However, it's also my opinion (not yet grounded in fact) that first posts such as those we've just received (by odd coincidence, not one but two, from members who have joined us within 27 minutes of one another) are often trolling to stir up an argument. Kindly bear in mind that we can and do ban members with overly large chips on their shoulders.

[drednm]

... and another first post by an impassioned supporter 5 months after the thread had died. How odd. Anyone check their IPOs?

[entredeuxguerres]

Kindly bear in mind that we can and do ban members with overly large chips on their shoulders.

Oh, please...let the MNADL speak its silly piece; it's such good fun!

[drednm]

Any disk I get with a Newman score is immediately edited to eliminate the score. I then plug in MUZAK in place of it. This is of course for my own personal enjoyment (and sanity).

[Danny Burk]

... and another first post by an impassioned supporter 5 months after the thread had died. How odd. Anyone check their IPOs?

Of course!

[Olivia]

... and another first post by an impassioned supporter 5 months after the thread had died. How odd. Anyone check their IPOs?

I recognize that the thread was dead some months ago.... I am a fan of the Newman family and their contribution to motion picture music. Having recently seen a film with Ms. Newman's composition, I wanted to see what other people were saying. No chip here, I simply believe in defending good art. I appreciate those pointing out the difference between liable and slander and also helping ground a stronger model of opinion.

[drednm]

Olivia that's fine. While Newman has admirable family connections and musical background, from my experience with her music she has no affinity for silent film. Perhaps her real talents lie elsewhere.....

[Penfold]

I'm a neutral on this topic, as I (as far as I know) have yet to hear a Maria Newman silent film score........I have heard plenty of others. For my twopennorth I will say that one has to assume that she has a great deal of musical talent, not because of her formidable genetics but because the skill of orchestrating any piece of music is a task way above anything I can comprehend.
However, she would be far from the first talented, even big-name, composer who has fallen flat on their face when confronted by a silent film; it seems that silent film scoring requires a totally different subset of skills (or priorities, or both) to concert hall composing.
I'll try to keep an open mind when I do get to hear her film work.
And because no-one else has, I'd like to say to Olivia; welcome to Nitrateville, we like a healthy debate here.......thanks for contributing to this one.

[Joe Migliore]

Olivia wrote:

What's being put forth here is slander. It's just a string of unsubstantiated opinions that are put out there to harm someone else.

Is there some legal process I can endure to get my opinions substantiated? Hitherto this point, I was under the impression that we could hire someone else to post our opinions.

[drednm]

I don't think there's any such thing as an "unsubstantiated opinion." An opinion is just that. It's not necessarily based on anything. Even if it is, it's hardly a "substantiated opinion." In my opinion, green is prettier than blue.

[silentfilm]

It's not that most people here dislike her music. She commits the cardinal sin when composing for a silent film -- the the music "accompany" the film. Her music draws attention to itself, rather than enhancing the film. The music isn't necessarily bad as music, but it doesn't work well with a silent narrative film.

The music for Helen Gardner's Cleopatra (1912) by Chantal Krevinzuk and Raine Maida is another excellent -- I mean bad -- example of distracting music.

[drednm]

Exactly right, Bruce. The music is not the star in a silent film.

[Little Caesar]

Wasn't Maria Newman the one who scored Jack Pickford's version of "Tom Sawyer" to sound like "Nosferatu"?