Is Maria Newman's music that bad?

[Olivia]

And because no-one else has, I'd like to say to Olivia; welcome to Nitrateville, we like a healthy debate here.......thanks for contributing to this one.

Thank you, Penfold!

[BankofAmericasSweetheart]

I have seen Maria Newman play live and conduct her scores. I've seen her live for Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, Heart O' The Hills, and the Biograph shorts Ramona(1910), What The Daisy Said(1911), Willful Peggy(1910), & The Gibson Goddess(1909).

I find her scores very refreshing and enhancing the story of those motion pictures not making them worse.

I may be of minority opinion on here but I feel I have a very solid stance on the matter than those who have not seen her scores live and just on some DVD print from the early 2000s...

I also feel that I should welcome those newcomers to this forum. I don't believe the regulars on this forum have been terribly friendly to anybody that is new here. That's.... of course MY OPINION.

[boblipton]

Welcome, Olivia.

I've been thinking for a couple of days about what you've said and I am afraid I disagree. My respect for the work of Lionel, Alfred and Randy Newman does not mean I will automatically assign the same respect to the work of Ms. Newman. Every movie, every accompanying set of music, heck, every restaurant steak is a separate work to be judged on its own merits. The fact that a particular artist has done well in the past means I will be more likely to go back for another effort, but that does not guarantee excellence. I've gotten a bad steak at my favorite steakhouse, Woody Allen turns out the occasional Deconstructing Harry and even a film composer with a good track record can suddenly start producing pointless scores; Henry Mancini, for example, while never less than competent, stopped producing great scores towards the end of the 1960s. I'd like to know why, but it doesn't affect the facts.

Basically, a good track record will get my attention, but every individual work must stand or fall on its own merits. Passion and desire for expression don't mean a thing. If they did, Edward Wood Jr. would be a great cineaste and not an incompetent buffoon whose works survive because they are so awful as to be entertaining in their ineptness. Talent can run in families, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that it must extend to every individual.

None of this is not to say that Ms. Newman is an incompetent musician or composer. However, composition for silent films is its own specialty. One goes into the theater for grand opera, musical comedy, dance, rock concert hall etc. for different purposes. Had Maria Callas shown up at the Fillmore East when I worked there to sing selections from Lucia di Lammemoor, she would have been hooted off the stage, and rightly so. If I went to to the Cloisters for a concert of Gregorian Chants and it turned out to be a tap show, I would be annoyed. Ms. Newman may be a fine composer of certain classes of music, but my experience does not support the thesis that she can compose or compile music for silent movies well.

Her music for them has been shatteringly bad. They have broken my concentration on the action on screen. They have certainly failed to support the emotional impact of scenes. They have covered up the sound of the projectors, which seems to be original purpose of music during movie shows. I don't know if, in the event I lose concentration on the action, they provide some nice music for me to listen to; my reaction has been to shut off the music, go back to the beginning and use my ITunes program to provide some vaguely appropriate dropneedle score.

Just as a good track record will make me pay attention to an artist, a bad one will make me avoid one. It may be that Ms. Newman's live performances are better than the recorded ones, although certainly Richard Roberts' report of the way her group winds up obscuring part of the screen does not bode well. Nor, so long as Ms. Newman is on the Pacific Coast and I am in New York City, is there much chance I will get the opportunity to see a silent movie with her live performances. I rarely look at a movie more than once and I would be most unlikely to pay the extra money to hear Ms. Newman's group.

If Ms. Newman's work in silent movie composition speak to your aesthetic and you have the opportunity to experience it, then bully for you. It certainly doesn't appeal to mine nor to the vast majority of silent film fans; and I fear that the distractive qualities I have experienced will not serve to bring many new people to silent films.

Bob

[Zoetrope]

Having never heard any of Ms. Newman's work, this topic raised my interest. I just did a search on YouTube and found some Mary Pickford clips with her music along with a short film about Ms. Newman's composing for silent films.

From what I have watched so far I have to agree with many of the other posts. In my opinion, while the music on it's own isn't bad, it does distract the viewer from the film and frequently doesn't seem to match the action on the screen.

[Olivia]

Welcome, Olivia.

I've been thinking for a couple of days about what you've said and I am afraid I disagree... Basically, a good track record will get my attention, but every individual work must stand or fall on its own merits... However, composition for silent films is its own specialty. One goes into the theater for grand opera, musical comedy, dance, rock concert hall etc. for different purposes... Her music for them has been shatteringly bad. They have broken my concentration on the action on screen. They have certainly failed to support the emotional impact of scenes. They have covered up the sound of the projectors, which seems to be original purpose of music during movie shows... so long as Ms. Newman is on the Pacific Coast and I am in New York City, is there much chance I will get the opportunity to see a silent movie with her live performances. If Ms. Newman's work in silent movie composition speak to your aesthetic and you have the opportunity to experience it, then bully for you. It certainly doesn't appeal to mine nor to the vast majority of silent film fans; and I fear that the distractive qualities I have experienced will not serve to bring many new people to silent films. Bob

Mr. Liption-

Thank you so much for taking time and thought to address some principles I laid out and not have a knee-jerk reaction to scold me for my thoughts. I appreciate you addressing some principles and questions I laid out in my defense for Ms. Newman's work. You are correct. It does speak to my aesthetic and I have been blessed to have seen live performances of her original scores, both to accompany a film and original pieces on their own. I did not feel the film accompaniments diluted the story on the screen. I do hope that if you're in Los Angeles during a silent film screening with a Maria Newman accompaniment, you would take the opportunity to reevaluate your opinion.

But, you raised an interesting point, and one that I was not aware of- that the music of silent films was supposed to act in harmony with the sounds of the projector. Very interesting. I will have to learn more! I'm sorry to hear that she does not speak to your aesthetic, since she speaks so deeply to mine.

Olivia

PS- I believe you're also right with regard to DNA. It helps, but doesn't necessarily make someone predisposed to being better at something just because they have lineage that says they should be. In the case of Maria Newman, for me, she has that great DNA.

[BankofAmericasSweetheart]

Welcome, Olivia.

I've been thinking for a couple of days about what you've said and I am afraid I disagree... Basically, a good track record will get my attention, but every individual work must stand or fall on its own merits... However, composition for silent films is its own specialty. One goes into the theater for grand opera, musical comedy, dance, rock concert hall etc. for different purposes... Her music for them has been shatteringly bad. They have broken my concentration on the action on screen. They have certainly failed to support the emotional impact of scenes. They have covered up the sound of the projectors, which seems to be original purpose of music during movie shows... so long as Ms. Newman is on the Pacific Coast and I am in New York City, is there much chance I will get the opportunity to see a silent movie with her live performances. If Ms. Newman's work in silent movie composition speak to your aesthetic and you have the opportunity to experience it, then bully for you. It certainly doesn't appeal to mine nor to the vast majority of silent film fans; and I fear that the distractive qualities I have experienced will not serve to bring many new people to silent films. Bob

Mr. Liption-

Thank you so much for taking time and thought to address some principles I laid out and not have a knee-jerk reaction to scold me for my thoughts. I appreciate you addressing some principles and questions I laid out in my defense for Ms. Newman's work. You are correct. It does speak to my aesthetic and I have been blessed to have seen live performances of her original scores, both to accompany a film and original pieces on their own. I did not feel the film accompaniments diluted the story on the screen. I do hope that if you're in Los Angeles during a silent film screening with a Maria Newman accompaniment, you would take the opportunity to reevaluate your opinion.

But, you raised an interesting point, and one that I was not aware of- that the music of silent films was supposed to act in harmony with the sounds of the projector. Very interesting. I will have to learn more! I'm sorry to hear that she does not speak to your aesthetic, since she speaks so deeply to mine.

Olivia

PS- I believe you're also right with regard to DNA. It helps, but doesn't necessarily make someone predisposed to being better at something just because they have lineage that says they should be. In the case of Maria Newman, for me, she has that great DNA.

Olivia, I guess only you and I really enjoy the silent film scores. It speaks to me artistically and doesn't take away from the film. I can't imagine watching some of the silents without her score actually, it would seem like something was missing. That's how much I like the scores. Then again I've seen her and her family play live so it's different perspective too. All I'm going to say about this is when she premiered her Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm score in Downtown LA a few summers ago, she got a standing ovation and people actually were interested in seeing more silent films. I guess that must be some positive out of all of this hate.

[entredeuxguerres]

All I'm going to say about this is when she premiered her Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm score in Downtown LA a few summers ago, she got a standing ovation...

Any remote possibility, do you suppose, that the audience on that occasion was drawn by her name, not Rebecca's?

[boblipton]

Doesn't matter in the long run, ETG, if they come to scoff, so long as they remain to pray.

Bob

[Rodney]

I have not heard a lot of Maria Newman's scores -- for the record, I quite liked Daddy Long Legs, I didn't care for Tom Sawyer or Heart o' the Hills. I would add that seeing a show live is worth doing, even if you don't care for the musicians -- being live in the auditorium can greatly change the experience. Even if you don't care for Maria Newman (or the Alloy Orchestra, or Mont Alto, or theater organists), seeing the score presented live with an enthusiastic audience can be infectious and lead to an inspirational evening, even if you wouldn't watch the film with that score at home. And if Maria Newman's fans would never watch the Mary Pickford film at home without that music, that's the flip side of the same coin. Let's not judge people who like a musician and want to see her any more than we'd judge someone who likes a film actor and wants to see her.

[Jim Roots]

Let's not judge people who like a musician and want to see her any more than we'd judge someone who likes a film actor and wants to see her.

Rodney, of course, is a rabid Pia Zadora fan...

Jim

[benjaminvvaughn]

Olivia, I guess only you and I really enjoy the silent film scores. It speaks to me artistically and doesn't take away from the film. I can't imagine watching some of the silents without her score actually, it would seem like something was missing. That's how much I like the scores. Then again I've seen her and her family play live so it's different perspective too. All I'm going to say about this is when she premiered her Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm score in Downtown LA a few summers ago, she got a standing ovation and people actually were interested in seeing more silent films. I guess that must be some positive out of all of this hate.

And I too, really enjoy Maria Newman's Mary Pickford film scores! They bring additional vibrance, charm and jollity to Mary's delightful and deep acting, directing and writing. Mary Pickford had an incredible commitment to the creative process and obviously from how passionately delicious and intricate her scores are, so does Maria. Mary always sought to have the most innovative and daring people working for her on her sets. Mary dared to go against the grain of "the way things were always done," Mary dared to create new genres, blending old craft and new technologies, similarly does Maria.

Thank you, Mary Pickford, for inventing modern film acting that we all know and love. And thank you, Ms. Newman, for by your breaking down genre barriers, you have introduced and delighted new generations of audiences who respond so positively to you work. You are among the greats.

[WaverBoy]

Olivia, I guess only you and I really enjoy the silent film scores. It speaks to me artistically and doesn't take away from the film. I can't imagine watching some of the silents without her score actually, it would seem like something was missing. That's how much I like the scores. Then again I've seen her and her family play live so it's different perspective too. All I'm going to say about this is when she premiered her Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm score in Downtown LA a few summers ago, she got a standing ovation and people actually were interested in seeing more silent films. I guess that must be some positive out of all of this hate.

And I too, really enjoy Maria Newman's Mary Pickford film scores! They bring additional vibrance, charm and jollity to Mary's delightful and deep acting, directing and writing. Mary Pickford had an incredible commitment to the creative process and obviously from how passionately delicious and intricate her scores are, so does Maria. Mary always sought to have the most innovative and daring people working for her on her sets. Mary dared to go against the grain of "the way things were always done," Mary dared to create new genres, blending old craft and new technologies, similarly does Maria.

Thank you, Mary Pickford, for inventing modern film acting that we all know and love. And thank you, Ms. Newman, for by your breaking down genre barriers, you have introduced and delighted new generations of audiences who respond so positively to you work. You are among the greats.

Well, we've found three Maria Newman fans. The rest of us are slanderers, apparently. But at least we're slanderers with good taste in silent film scores.

[entredeuxguerres]

. And thank you, Ms. Newman.... You are among the greats.

If there was a Pulitzer for bombast, this assertion would earn it.

[Olivia]

Well, we've found three Maria Newman fans. The rest of us are slanderers, apparently. But at least we're slanderers with good taste in silent film scores.

It feels like we're a needle in a haystack! It's nice to find friends and aficionados. I hope we can bring more to the love of Ms. Newman original scores either here or introduce them to live music accompanying Pickford films.