The Artist - amazing connections to Chaplin, Keaton, et al.

[Donald Binks]

I only watched the trailer, making a logical inference from what that scene was deliberately suggesting. Had that scene ended with Rudy punching his nose, or the like, of course I wouldn't have arrived at that erroneous conclusion.

Well we know about trailers - some of them featured whole scenes that weren't in the films!

[syd]

Let's not forget that Rudolf Nureyev,
who was bisexual, played Valentino in the
1977 biopic.

[Mitch Farish]

Forget Rudy, whose real life was probably more mundane than we would like to believe. The bio I want to see - if they would stay close to the truth - is of Clara Bow, whose life was a fairy tale of the Grimm variety, which would contain as much or more horror than enchantment. Might make a good modern silent in the style of The Artist.

[Wm. Charles Morrow]

It occurs to me that the William Desmond Taylor case would be ideal for the "silent treatment." One of the best-known books on the subject, A Cast of Killers, offers a decent framework for a re-telling of the story: an aging King Vidor investigates the murder in 1967, w/ color & sound, while the flashbacks could be in black & white, and silent. This would illustrate the culture clash of the Old Norma Desmond Hollywood of the '20 opposite the garish "New" Hollywood of the '60s.

[entredeuxguerres]

...The bio I want to see - if they would stay close to the truth - is of Clara Bow, whose life was a fairy tale of the Grimm variety, which means it would contain as much or more horror than enchantment....

"Stay close to the truth"...there's the rub! Seems to be an unwritten rule of the Production Code that every celeb's life must be sensationalized, or trivialized, or otherwise twisted out of all resemblance to "the truth." Possibly a picturization of Clara's early life, because it was so genuinely sensational, would escape the usual stupid distortions, but...do you trust H'wood? Perhaps the BBC...

[Mitch Farish]

o you trust H'wood? Perhaps the BBC

No, never have trusted them where biography or literature are concerned. Clara's life would need no embellishment because it was all sensational. She was one of those rare individuals who lived a life where, almost literally, there was never a dull moment. Maybe that's why no one will make a film of her life. The hack writers would not be able to come up with anything stranger than the truth. Unless they go to Kenneth Anger for their source.

[Big Silent Fan]

Forget Rudy, whose real life was probably more mundane than we would like to believe. The bio I want to see - if they would stay close to the truth - is of Clara Bow, whose life was a fairy tale of the Grimm variety, which would contain as much or more horror than enchantment. Might make a good modern silent in the style of The Artist.

Forget Silent; Clara had a perfect voice for her talkie films I've seen ("Hoop La," "Call Her Savage").
Surely there's an actress with similar looks who could mimic her voice and create a bio-like feature, dramatizing the much talked about events in her life. When the Hollywood Press turned against Clara, she met and married Rex Bell, living Hollywood behind. Too bad it didn't have the fairytale ending she deserved.

A well told story might silence forever the critics who continue to believe she couldn't have made it big in Sound.

[entredeuxguerres]

...A well told story might silence forever the critics who continue to believe she couldn't have made it big in Sound.

If they weren't silenced by the 10 talkies she did make, it's clear they were simply refusing to pay attention. Some think she gave her best performance in Call Her Savage, her next to last picture, though it's a little too offbeat & downbeat to be a great favorite of mine; but True to the Navy...what more could any fair-minded critic ask? Her greatest problem wasn't, I don't believe, "the critics," but the two bastards running her studio--the same two who unceremoniously kicked out one of their biggest silent stars without even the courtesy of a sound-test--Bebe Daniels, of course.

In True to the Navy (in which, surprisingly, she did not reprise "True to the Navy," her song in Paramount on Parade), and in one or two others, she revealed a "cute" singing voice--not great musically (though as good as Helen Kane's), but very pleasant & amusing.

[Mitch Farish]

I love Clara's voice. It's really quite rich and even musical. The box office for her talkies gives the lie to those who claim she couldn't hack it. But she didn't like doing talkies, and a silent film on her life could still work, although I would take any truthful bio pic, talking or otherwise, that would puncture the awful myths that continue to surround her life.

[wich2]

Where's the credible evidence that Rudy was either homosexual or bisexual? Rumors aren't evidence, nor does repetition in that scandal-mongering compendium of trash, Hollywood Babylon, make them evidence.

I write this not to stoke a fire, but because I don't know what weight the "Quirks Camp" is given hereabouts:

http://quirksreviews.tripod.com/id22.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

-Craig

[Frederica]

Where's the credible evidence that Rudy was either homosexual or bisexual? Rumors aren't evidence, nor does repetition in that scandal-mongering compendium of trash, Hollywood Babylon, make them evidence.

I write this not to stoke a fire, but because I don't know what weight the "Quirks Camp" is given hereabouts:

http://quirksreviews.tripod.com/id22.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

-Craig

Ahem. That first photo at the top of Quirk's essay? It's Russ Columbo, not Valentino. Take what you will from that.

[wich2]

Well, I take it as a misidentified photo!

(But then, some newspaper obits for Boris Karloff used a file photo of Glenn Strange as The Monster, and I don't think that invalidated the whole piece.)

Again, I pointedly DID NOT present that link as gospel; but honestly wondered what folks thought of its content.

-Craig

[Frederica]

Well, I take it as a misidentified photo!

(But then, some newspaper obits for Boris Karloff used a file photo of Glenn Strange as The Monster, and I don't think that invalidated the whole piece.)

Again, I pointedly DID NOT present that link as gospel; but honestly wondered what folks thought of its content.

-Craig

I don't think much of it. I'll leave the whole gay thing undiscussed, but that wax dummy story is ludicrous. It does not surprise me in the least that Adela Rogers St. Johns corroborated it all over the place.

[Mitch Farish]

I thought all those salacious details about Novarro's death originated with Kenneth Anger. We all know how reliable he was. If that's who Quirk is relying on, it calls the whole piece into question in my mind.

[wich2]

Well, I have no horse in this race.

I know that the sexual life of Alexander the Great was considerably whitewashed when I first learned of him in school; but on the other hand, I know a good deal about Abraham Lincoln, and in that case, the revisionism has been pretty throughly debunked.

In Valentino's case, as an actor in NY, I know that homo- and bi- sexuality are far from rare among performers. As well, the fact that several of the women he was most involved with were bisexual, has to be fairly admitted to complicate the issue...

-Craig

[Big Silent Fan]

I love Clara's voice. I would take any truthful bio pic, talking or otherwise, that would puncture the awful myths that continue to surround her life.

Those early days on the ranch must have been magical. Clara's life might have had a fairytale ending if only Rex Bell hadn't been lured away by the politicians, leaving her stranded to raise their children.

[entredeuxguerres]

I write this not to stoke a fire...
-Craig

Really? Search around on the web, & you can find ample "proof" that the Twin Towers were brought down by a joint conspiracy of the CIA & the Mossad.

[wich2]

Not an apt analogy, Between. The Towers Conspiracies rank with Hitler In Argentina and The Faked Moonlanding.

Pretty different from the Valentino situation.

-Craig
(Writing from two miles North of the late Twins)

[entredeuxguerres]

The accuracy of Wikipedia is often maligned, as we all know, but the "Personal Life" section of their Rudy article (which ridicules the Navarro assertion in that internet hatchet-job) should strike anyone reading it as a lot more reliable than that slander-sheet.

I'd prefer to take the word of the Manassa Mauler: "Boxing heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey, who trained Valentino and other Hollywood notables of the era in boxing, said of him "He was the most virile and masculine of men. The women were like flies to a honeypot. He could never shake them off, anywhere he went. What a lovely, lucky guy."[50]"

[wich2]

Just in the interest of fairness, many men would've said the same of Rock Hudson, until shortly before his death.

[rudyfan]

Well, I have no horse in this race.

I know that the sexual life of Alexander the Great was considerably whitewashed when I first learned of him in school; but on the other hand, I know a good deal about Abraham Lincoln, and in that case, the revisionism has been pretty throughly debunked.

In Valentino's case, as an actor in NY, I know that homo- and bi- sexuality are far from rare among performers. As well, the fact that several of the women he was most involved with were bisexual, has to be fairly admitted to complicate the issue...

-Craig

Well, Jean Acker certainly confuses the issue. She was most certainly bi/gay. When they met, both were vulnerable. Having seen one of Valentino's letters to her one month after their marriage, it is quite apparent he had *not a clue* about her. She did not help matters at all by sending him very confusing messages. The miracle is, in the end, after all the litigation and such, they ended up being friendly.

I have not seen any evidence that Natacha was either bi or gay. She seemed to have a fairly healthy sex life with men before, during and after Valentino.

For the record, in my own research on Valentino, I've never uncovered even the slightest evidence of him being bi or gay. In my one interview with someone who knew Valentino in NY and who, himself, was gay, stated in most emphatic terms Rudy was straight.

There were claims made in the book from a few years ago based on the memoirs of Samual Steward (not sure if I got his name right) but lining up his dates with a dated timeline of Valentino's movements in 1923, the claims in that book are disproved. Not to mention the autograph from thsi man's collection is patently false. The other "evidence" in his collection is, I suspect, wishful dreaming. LOL.

In any case, not to belabor this, my research says no.

[entredeuxguerres]

Well, Jean Acker certainly confuses the issue. She was most certainly bi/gay. When they met, both were vulnerable. Having seen one of Valentino's letters to her one month after their marriage, it is quite apparent he had *not a clue* about her. She did not help matters at all by sending him very confusing messages. The miracle is, in the end, after all the litigation and such, they ended up being friendly....

A miracle that ranks with the parting of the Red Sea, considering the grief she handed him; what a gentleman he had to be to "let that pass."

This sad case demonstrates why pre-marital sex shouldn't merely be optional, but mandatory before the license is issued. But I guess the divorce lawyers would oppose that idea.

[Donald Binks]

Seeking out the truth as to whether Rudolph Valentino may have been a paid up member of the shirt-lifting brigade seems to me to be an exercise in futility. Back in the 1920's nobody was out of the closet, in fact they were locked in and had thrown away the key. Homosexuality - if it may have been known to a select few - was hardly something to be talked about and if someone had been found to be engaging in the activity- then it was hushed up to the enth degree. A world away from today where you can't shut people up from talking about their sexuality. Valentino lived in a strange world - Hollywood - full of strange people - actors and actresses; and because of that, people with today's values, try adding two and two and making up four or five - all based on conjecture or rumour.

I prefer to judge people on what they actually do in their public life rather than their private life and as such I judge Rudolph Valentino from his filmed performances. It's a pity if one's public life seems to get unavoidably mixed up with one's private life - and that seems to be the prevalent pattern of today's society.

[boblipton]

Well said, Donald. Me, I like to judge film people by what shows up on the screen. I may be interested in how it got there, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I don't care about what Valentino did with what to whom.

Bob

[entredeuxguerres]

Seeking out the truth as to whether Rudolph Valentino may have been a paid up member of the shirt-lifting brigade seems to me to be an exercise in futility....

Certainly, but, unfortunately, it sells: in books or on-line slander-sheets, or if nothing else, it earns publicity.

Shirt-lifting brigade...? Guess I'm even further behind the times than I knew.

[wich2]

There is no sin in finding out more about a well-known figure.

Biography is a worthy genre. And the fact that a previous era was intolerant or oblivious on this or that score, is no reason to keep genuine biography shackled over time.

I am fascinated by human beings. But plaster saints are of no real value, and studio flackery was never scholarship. For me, the key is if the investigation is a search for truth, or an excuse for malice.

Best,
-Craig

[Donald Binks]

, or an excuse for malice.

That would seem to be the express purpose. The attitude invariably seems to be - "Oh, Look what we've found out about so and so". When of course what has been found out is of nobody's business. I can only speak for myself, but I would hate it if some of my private life was fodder for general circulation. Not of course that my dull life would be of any interest in the first place.

[entredeuxguerres]

Biography is a worthy genre....Craig

Of course!...when conscientiously practiced. But that's not the scurrilous trade of Quirk, Anger, & the other scandal-mongers.

[greta de groat]

I'm reading an interesting book right now by Mark Lynn Anderson called Twilight of the Idols. I know that i have tended to want to just concentrate on people's films, considering their private life to be both irrelevant and none of my business (not to say that i don't love a good biography as well!). But part of film history is also the social role, the meaning that films and stars had to their audiences, whatever their actual private life (as opposed to their public private life) might have been. Books on Valentino always seem to talk about his crazy female fans rioting at his funeral, after several years of making middle class white males uncomfortable with their adulation of this dark-skinned foreigner that men liked to deride as effeminate. But the book points out that the photos of the mobs also contain lots of men, and the author tries to do some investigation on what Valentino may have meant to male audiences, including gay male audiences, which are hard to research since they were so closeted. He even has an interesting reinterpretation of the Pink Powder Puff article. It's a bit overdone but it does raise an interesting point in not only history but historiography--why has it been important for later writers on the Valentino phenomenon to ignore possible male fandom? And it's clear there were some male fans: for example a sad news article quoted at the end of the chapter i finished over lunch today, reporting that a black male drag performer who was on his way to pay his respects to Valentino was beaten to death by a white policeman.

greta

[entredeuxguerres]

...Books on Valentino always seem to talk about his crazy female fans rioting at his funeral, after several years of making middle class white males uncomfortable with their adulation of this dark-skinned foreigner that men liked to deride as effeminate....

greta

How does someone impersonating sheiks, matadors, gauchos, Cossacks, & other dashing, virile characters, earn the "effeminate" stigma, I wonder; at any rate, I (a "middle class white male") never perceived him in that light. I haven't, to my great disappointment, seen Monsieur Beaucaire (because I can't reconcile myself to another inept & inane Grapevine score), but still...that's only one picture out of many dramatically non-epicene roles.