How to access and release an archive-held silent

[David Pierce]

Ed,

Douglas Fairbanks praised THE HUMMING BIRD as Swanson's finest film. I would sure love to see it. Incidentally, Hugh Munro Neely told me that he believes that REVENGE (1928) is out of copyright. I

The copyright to REVENGE was renewed.

David Pierce

Renewed by who? It doesn't make much since that REVENGE is still copyrighted while RAMONA is not? In any case, Hugh doesn't think it matters much at this point. Ideally, RAMONA and REVENGE would both be released at the same time in the same set. Each of them Star Dolores Del Rio and were Directed by Edwin Carewe.

It does make sense. The copyright to RAMONA expired because it was sold to Twentieth Century-Fox for the remake with Loretta Young, and Fox neglected to file a timely renewal on the original film. This was the same reason that other original versions of films Fox bought for their remake value fell into the public domain, including BLOOD AND SAND, FORBIDDEN PARADISE, and REBECCA OF SUNNYBROOK FARM.

David Pierce

[drednm]

OK so my Kickstarter campaign ended successful on May 8. They then take 14 days to process everything. My latest statement shows funding at $2,904 (a few pledges didn't go through). From that amount Kickstarter takes a fee of $145.20 with an additional payment processing fee (Amazon I assume) of $109.15, leaving me with $2,649.65. That's 5% to Kickstarter and about 3.7% for Amazon.

Not sure what happens to pledges that come in after the campaign has closed. I have 2 at the tail end that don't seem to be included in the total but it looks like they were processed...

Painless enough. But remember to include those fees in your campaign goal.....

[elliothearst]

OK so my Kickstarter campaign ended successful on May 8. They then take 14 days to process everything. My latest statement shows funding at $2.904 (a few pledges didn't go through). From that amount Kickstarter takes a fee of $145.20 with an additional payment processing fee (Amazon I assume) of $109.15, leaving me with $2.649.65. That's 5% to Kickstarter and about 3.7% for Amazon.

Not sure what happens to pledges that come in after the campaign has closed. I have 2 at the tail end that don't seem to be included in the total but it looks like they were processed...

Painless enough. But remember to include those fees in your campaign goal.....

Useful info. Thanks, Ed.

[Gagman 66]

It does make sense. The copyright to RAMONA expired because it was sold to Twentieth Century-Fox for the remake with Loretta Young, and Fox neglected to file a timely renewal on the original film. This was the same reason that other original versions of films Fox bought for their remake value fell into the public domain, including BLOOD AND SAND, FORBIDDEN PARADISE, and REBECCA OF SUNNYBROOK FARM.

David Pierce[/quote]

How's that? FORBIDDEN PARADISE is Public Domain? Are you certain? You still didn't answer my question as to who renewed the copyright to REVENGE? Was it UA? and if so, who holds it now?

[paulb]

Hi Donald:

You could also try your local Theatre Organ Society. Only last week in Hobart we had a concert by visiting US organist Jerry Nagano which featured a screening of Buster Keaton's "One week" accompanied by our wonderful Wurlitzer. And late last year another visiting US organist Donna Parker accompanied Laurel & Hardy in "Brats" (a 16mm print from my collection as her dvd had been left behind at a previous concert!).

Cheers
Paul

[Frederica]

OK so my Kickstarter campaign ended successful on May 8. They then take 14 days to process everything. My latest statement shows funding at $2.904 (a few pledges didn't go through). From that amount Kickstarter takes a fee of $145.20 with an additional payment processing fee (Amazon I assume) of $109.15, leaving me with $2.649.65. That's 5% to Kickstarter and about 3.7% for Amazon.

Not sure what happens to pledges that come in after the campaign has closed. I have 2 at the tail end that don't seem to be included in the total but it looks like they were processed...

Painless enough. But remember to include those fees in your campaign goal.....

Useful info. Thanks, Ed.

Yes, thanks, that is good information to know. Did you know that when you did the first kickstarter, or was it an unpleasant surprise?

[drednm]

It's up-front info.... You just need to build the fees into your goal. The fees aren't bad for smallish projects.

[BenModel]

Exactly. I did the same: worked out my budget, and then built 9% or 10% on top to cover this.

Ben

[Frederica]

Exactly. I did the same: worked out my budget, and then built 9% or 10% on top to cover this.

Ben

For both of you, was there anything that came as an unpleasant surprise? Something you hadn't anticipated that drove up the cost, time, etc.? Something that happened just out of sheer bloody "I've never done this before"?

[drednm]

Not from Kickstarter. There's a 14-day period before you actually receive funds but then they go directly into your bank account. I don't remember it working that way before. I remembered that the money sat in an Amazon account, but I could be wrong. No matter. Anyway, when selecting a delivery date for the finished project (and if there are any gift for donors), you need to remember the 14-day payout window as well as the length of your campaign. I picked 30 days; Ben picked a shorter timeframe. The campaign runs for that selected timeframe no matter how quickly the project funds. I think between us, our projects have funded in just days (or less), but the longer timeframe ensures a better chance of success since it sometimes take a while for word to get out. It also allows time for "extra" money that can upgrade the project (or premium) or go toward the next one. Another thing is that the longer timeframe (30 days in my case) gives you a cushion since there's always a possibility that some pledges might be reduced or canceled for whatever reason.

No matter what the campaign timeframe, if the project doesn't fund, no one pays anything, including you.

Kickstarter also reviews your project and provides helpful hints and questions to keep everything focused and clear. The review process can add a few days or more to your start time.

Finally, if you are making your own film disks, dealing with a composer or other video professional, or farming the whole thing out to someone else, leave yourself enough time to produce the final product.

[Frederica]

Not from Kickstarter. There's a 14-day period before you actually receive funds but then they go directly into your bank account. I don't remember it working that way before. I remembered that the money sat in an Amazon account, but I could be wrong. No matter. Anyway, when selecting a delivery date for the finished project (and if there are any gift for donors), you need to remember the 14-day payout window as well as the length of your campaign. I picked 30 days; Ben picked a shorter timeframe. The campaign runs for that selected timeframe no matter how quickly the project funds. I think between us, our projects have funded in just days (or less), but the longer timeframe ensures a better chance of success since it sometimes take a while for word to get out. It also allows time for "extra" money that can upgrade the project (or premium) or go toward the next one. Another thing is that the longer timeframe (30 days in my case) gives you a cushion since there's always a possibility that some pledges might be reduced or canceled for whatever reason.

No matter what the campaign timeframe, if the project doesn't fund, no one pays anything, including you.

Kickstarter also reviews your project and provides helpful hints and questions to keep everything focused and clear. The review process can add a few days or more to your start time.

Finally, if you are making your own film disks, dealing with a composer or other video professional, or farming the whole thing out to someone else, leave yourself enough time to produce the final product.

Thank you. These are all very helpful comments.

[BenModel]

The delays that pop up are always in the production end of things. Everything takes longer than you think it will, and often there will be a tech issue or two or (three) that pops up. Most important during production is to keep sending updates and let your backers know about the delays as/if they happen.

Ben

[boblipton]

I'd like to hear Ben & Ed's thoughts on budgeting expanded. When I've been involved in budgeting projects, I've always set in a certain wiggle room, both in terms of time and money. Ben has already commented on the utility of sending updates to backers -- a wise idea as it keeps backers aware of the project, makes them aware of the fact that something is being done, and promotes good will. Each, in his follow-ups here and elsewhere, have written of what they will do at certain break-points in moneys pledged in excess of the minimum. If either or both of you would be willing to discuss accurate have the estimates of expenses been, how much wiggle room in a budget is allowed and so forth, it would be useful for anyone who wishes to do the same.

I know a lot of issues works out as "free labor" -- Ben does his own scores and Ed has benefited from the generosity of others. Speaking as a numbers guy, I'd be interested in hearing these figures, including time. I know that Ben discovered a glitch in the way the files were encoded in a couple of his projects and had to spend time identifying and dealing with those issues, so time estimates would also be worthwhile.

Bob

[drednm]

Again blind luck enhanced Enchantment in that Donald Sosin had already composed a score specifically for that film years before. That was an easy one. But it also led to an obvious decision for The Restless Sex in my asking Donald to compose a new score for the film. So I had that all lined up before I launched the Kickstarter.

The music is really important, so for anyone planning a PD silent film project, it's a major consideration. Several people came forward and offered services for all my projects, but I suppose that shouldn't be counted on. You definitely need some solid plans for music before you launch.

Then you still have to figure who/how you're going to put this all together for the final disk.

[Mike Gebert]

By the way, at Cinevent I met Tim Lussier, who runs Silents are Golden, an excellent source for news and such about silent films, and he complimented NitrateVille generally but in particular offered praise for the various efforts to release PD films with name American stars like Marion Davies, which he feels are kind of neglected from the existing home video labels. He also mentioned Ben Model's releases, and in general had praise for the way it has come to work that films can be, to a considerable degree, funded and marketed through the NitrateVille community (and other online sources, to be sure). This is a cool thing and people are noticing it (I can talk it up like that because I'm not doing it, people here are).

[drednm]

By the way, at Cinevent I met Tim Lussier, who runs Silents are Golden, an excellent source for news and such about silent films, and he complimented NitrateVille generally but in particular offered praise for the various efforts to release PD films with name American stars like Marion Davies, which he feels are kind of neglected from the existing home video labels. He also mentioned Ben Model's releases, and in general had praise for the way it has come to work that films can be, to a considerable degree, funded and marketed through the NitrateVille community (and other online sources, to be sure). This is a cool thing and people are noticing it (I can talk it up like that because I'm not doing it, people here are).

Yes, Tim has contacted me and offered his web site as a another way of getting out the word on future crowd-funding projects. Lots of good stuff on Tim's site!

[boblipton]

It may seem that this is a little off-topic, but it concerns itself with the sort of frustration that we fans of old films feel, with so many films seemingly still in existence but unavailable. It concerns itself with the Broads, a wealthy couple with a fine collection of contemporary art, who have been generous and major donors to the LACMA, who have donated their important collection to.... a museum they set up themselves, because they didn't want their collection sitting in a museum's basement.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2 ... e-basement" target="_blank" target="_blank

I'm not sure I agree with the solution offered by the writer, which is extremely libertarian, even by my standards. Still, it's a different viewpoint.

Bob

[Donald Binks]

It may seem that this is a little off-topic, but it concerns itself with the sort of frustration that we fans of old films feel, with so many films seemingly still in existence but unavailable. It concerns itself with the Broads, a wealthy couple with a fine collection of contemporary art, who have been generous and major donors to the LACMA, who have donated their important collection to.... a museum they set up themselves, because they didn't want their collection sitting in a museum's basement.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2 ... e-basement" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I'm not sure I agree with the solution offered by the writer, which is extremely libertarian, even by my standards. Still, it's a different viewpoint.

Bob

It's invariably a Catch-22 situation. Museums collect things which in a lot if instances could be either thrown out, whisked into private collections or just plain lost. The very fact that they accumulate so much by this very practice necessitates they store most of it as there is just not enough room to display it all. Here in Oz we have seen museums expand their display spaces, the opening of more museums and galleries and the loan out of works for hire by major commercial institutions to exhibit in their public foyers.

I think it's a different story when it comes to film as it is not necessarily the original artifact that needs to be put on display, most pundits are quite amenable to a copy. But, like everything else in this world - it still costs money!