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I spent about an hour searching David Pierce's American Silent Feature Film Database for basic information about a new project.

I had 3 main criteria: must be housed at LOC, must be public domain, must be complete.

The search tool allowed me to search all 3 criteria together (1920 Library on Congress complete). By just changing the year I was able to search 1917-1922 holding in about an hour. Searching 1920, for example, brought up a total of 107 films. By clicking each title I could see length of film in reels, director, star, and any notes.

Using my own personal likes, I wrote down titles that sounded interesting. I eventually had almost 50 titles that at least initially met the 3 basic criteria. A good place to start.

Next step is to research each title for any information (plot, co-stars, and anything else that might be relevant).

I assume this lengthier process will winnow the list by about half. From there I'll contact LOC librarians for any catalog notes they might have about the condition of the film, donor restrictions, and on what media it exists. This step is bound to eliminate some films.

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There were probably a couple hundred films I did not record because of the star listed. I pretty much stuck to major names and my own favorites. I figure, all things being equal, trying to crowd fund a film starring Norma Talmadge would more successful than one starring Grace Darling or Glen White. And again the LOC database lists only one star for each film therein.

My list of potential projects includes films starring Norma Talmadge, Constance Talmadge, Elliott Dexter, Bebe Daniels, Mae Marsh, May McAvoy, Elaine Hammerstein, Wallace Reid, Alma Rubens, Enid Bennett, Carmel Myers, Carlyle Blackwell, Shirley Mason, Milton Sills, Blanche Sweet, Geraldine Farrar, and Louise Glaum. There were many others I did not pick that starred William S. Hart, Madge Kennedy, Tom Mix, Olive Thomas, Ethel Clayton, Florence La Badie, etc... and many others I never heard of.

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So if anyone is looking for a project to crowd fund, I'll gladly share the bits I've gleaned. There might be a star of title you're itching to see......

I spoke with Joe Yransky(sp?) about restoration of some of the Talmadge material after a showing at the 53rd Street Library via digital projection -- the film elements were not in shape to be projected. Joe had discussed the matter before and said that the Douris Corporation would own any prints under restrictions from their donation. I think that means that Cohen Media would own them now. So while I would very much like to see them restored, it would almost certainly be better to look elsewhere.

However, any project you decide to undertake next will have my support. And if you decide you've done enough, you still have my thanks.

Bob

You're right, Bob. There's no way to know what shape any of these are in without looking. Other LOC catalog listings sometimes give more specific information.

I don't remember any of these Talmadge titles being in the Cohen catalog, but then I didn't go back to check. I just did this today. It's a first step. Donor restrictions can be unpredictable and you can only tell if there are any from further research, but beyond donor restrictions, the Cohen group would have no claim on Talmadge public domain films.

The two films that jumped out at me right off are The Witching Hour with Elliott Dexter and Ducks and Drakes with Bebe Daniels...... they might be in lousy shape, but as I said.... Just a starting place....

drednm wrote:Ducks and Drakes with Bebe Daniels......

I'll vote for that (if A Kiss in a Taxi is not on the list).

Always willing to check holdings (speed of reply depending on workload). Email: [email protected]" target="_blank

Thanks, Rob.....

WITCHING HOUR certainly sounds interesting...

Bor Enots wrote:Always willing to check holdings (speed of reply depending on workload). Email: [email protected]" target="_blank

Hi Rob,
If reasonably possible, I'd still be interested if you found out anything about the question I sent you some time ago (about a picture-only vitaphone short and a TV pilot). Thank you!

>they might be in lousy shape<

Ed, there's a member here whose digital restoration tests have shown remarkable promise.

-Craig

LOC's preserved print of The Witching Hour directed by Wm. D. Taylor was screened at the 1986 Cinecon in Minneapolis. It's briefly discussed in John T. Soister's 2010 McFarland book, Up From the Vaults. Jon Marsalis is quoted describing it as "very spooky with lots of visual touches." I recall it as being solemn and set primarily in a drawing room with much discussion about the Corot painting over the fireplace. This was spooky for me as I had earlier that day fallen in love with a Corot, an artist I was then unfamiliar with, at the Minneapolis Institute of Art:
https://collections.artsmia.org/index.p ... ail&id=794" target="_blank

drednm wrote:
The two films that jumped out at me right off are The Witching Hour with Elliott Dexter and Ducks and Drakes with Bebe Daniels...... they might be in lousy shape, but as I said.... Just a starting place....

Ducks and Drakes was directed by future NYC Prohibition Tsar, Maj. Maurice Campbell (and Mr. Henrietta Crosman.) I'd walk a mile to see that!

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:

drednm wrote:
The two films that jumped out at me right off are The Witching Hour with Elliott Dexter and Ducks and Drakes with Bebe Daniels...... they might be in lousy shape, but as I said.... Just a starting place....

Ducks and Drakes was directed by future NYC Prohibition Tsar, Maj. Maurice Campbell (and Mr. Henrietta Crosman.) I'd walk a mile to see that!

Me, too!

THE WITCHING HOUR has donor's restrictions that would have to be worked out. DUCKS AND DRAKES is P.D. and has no such restrictions. Both films have been preserved, neither has been digitized.

Sounds like SICK ABED (1920) (Wallace Reid, Bebe Daniels), might be a prime choice. Charles Epting highly recommends this title. Plus he says that it was already restored in 35 millimeter several years ago and looks "crystal clear". He said that DUCKS AND DRAKES is fun, but needs allot of work done.

Gagman 66 wrote: Sounds like SICK ABED (1920) (Wallace Reid, Bebe Daniels), might be a prime choice. Charles Epting highly recommends this title. Plus he says that it was already restored in 35 millimeter several years ago and looks "crystal clear". He said that DUCKS AND DRAKES is fun, but needs allot of work done.

Is OH LADY, LADY! (1920) handy?

What are the Olive Thomas holdings that were under consideration?

There looks to be a George O'Brien film that may be incorrectly labelled:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.m ... fault.html" target="_blank

Gilded Lies [motion picture]
Dates Issued
1921
14/03/1921
Type of Material
moving image
Forms
motion picture
film reel
Physical Description
5 reels; 4,496 ft.
Notes
Director: William P. S. Earle
Star: Eugene O'Brien (Keene Mccomb)
Archive: Library of Congress (Washington) [Usw]
Copyright claimant: Selznick Pictures
Registration number: Lp16291
Holdings: U.S. Archive
Studio: Selznick/Select
Completeness: complete
Format: 35 mm: Usw
Note: 35 mm Nitrate Positive: Usw 35 mm Acetate Dupe Negative: Usw
Record No.: 14924
Note: New Zealand


This is the NY Times write-up:

When her fiancé is reported lost on an expedition to the North Pole, Hester Thorpe (Martha Manfield) is coerced by her ambitious aunt into marrying society wolf Martin Ward (Frank Whitson). But when Ward proves to be a penniless brute, Hester seeks protection from her former boyfriend, Keene McComb (George O'Brien), who had returned mere hours after the nuptials. Facing bankruptcy, Ward fakes his own suicide and Hester marries McComb. Ward, however, returns to engage in a bit of blackmail, but meets a violent end on a rocky precipice. George Stewart and veteran character actor Arthur Donaldson also appeared in this routine melodrama from Selznick Pictures. ~ Hans J. Wollstein, Rovi

http://www.nytimes.com/movies/movie/929 ... s/overview" target="_blank

This is a film with Eugene O'Brien, not George.

George O'Brien never made a film for Selznick, pere or fils.

How's about the 1920s Dantes Inferno?

Here's the list of titles that jumped out at me. There were probably 2 or 3 times as many on the initial search.

1917
THE EVIL EYE Blanche Sweet
HAPPINESS Enid Bennett
GIRL OF THE TIMBER CLAIMS Constance Talmadge
LAW OF COMPENSATION Norma Talmadge
THE GOLDEN FETTER Wallace Reid
THE REGENERATES Alma Rubens
ON DANGEROUS GROUND Carlyle Blackwell
THE APPLE TREE GIRL Shirley Mason
LAW OF THE NORTH Shirley Mason
LIGHT IN DARKNESS Shirley Mason
LADY OF THE PHOTOGRAPH Shirley Mason
LITTLE CHEVALIER Shirley Mason
AWAKENING OF RUTH Shirley Mason
THE SEVENTH SIN Shirley Mason
1918
AHES OF LOVE James Kirkwood
DE LUXE ANNIE Norma Talmadge
KEYS OF THE RIGHTEOUS Enid Bennett
THE TRAP Alice Brady
1919
FLAME OF THE DESERT Geraldine Farrar
THE CLIMBERS Corinne Griffith
TEMPERAMENTAL WIFE Constance Talmadge
1920
YOU NEVER CAN TELL Bebe Daniels
THOUGHTLESS WOMAN Alma Rubens
THE WOMAN GAME Elaine Hammerstein
SILK HOSIERY Enid Bennett
HER HUSBAND’S FRIEND Enid Bennett
YES OR NO Norma Talmadge
BRANDED WOMAN Norma Talmadge
DAUGHTER OF TWO WORLDS Norma Talmadge
SHE LOVES AND LIES Norma Talmadge
THE WOMAN GIVES Norma Talmadge
IN SEARCH OF A SINNER Constance Talmadge
LEOPARD WOMAN Louise Glaum
1921
MORALS May McAvoy
NOBODY’S KID Mae Marsh
WAY OF A MAID Elaine Hammerstein
DUCKS AND DRAKES Bebe Daniels
THE WITCHING HOUR Elliott Dexter
SIGN ON THE DOOR Norma Talmadge
PASSION FLOWER Norma Talmadge
THE WONDERFUL THING Norma Talmadge
A DAUGHTER OF THE LAW Carmel Myers
1922
SKIN DEEP Milton Sills

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Joe Yransky (sp?) showed several of the Talmadge sisters' films at the Donnelly Library via digital projections. Here's my IMDB review of Deluxe Annie:

I have had a great number of issues with the Norma Talmadge features I have seen. Her husband and producer, Joe Schenck, spared no expense in purchasing properties for her, but while they might have been excellent stage shows, they were not well adapted for the screen -- a problem that Buster Keaton, who was Schenck's brother-in-law and whose films Schenck financed, suffered from.

The problems with DELUXE ANNIE arise purely from a chopped-down script, based on a stage show, which was based on a novel. It is intended as a liberal treatise on how circumstances can lead moral people into crime. We start out by having Norma Talmadge getting clunked on the head in Manhattan, developing amnesia, wandering off into the fog and winding up in Chicago two months later, with no explanation. She is broke and about to steal a watch and a bankroll. Instead, she gets involved in a variation of the Badger Game in partnership with the man who clunked her on the head following a dust-up with her husband with Norma's predecessor in the con, and whose wallet and watch she was about to steal.

Got that? I got it and for a good twenty minutes I considered walking out in annoyance, but I didn't, because, amidst all the claptrap and plotting-by-coincidence, Miss Talmadge gives a wonderful performance, running a wide range of emotions, played subtly or broadly as the situation required. It wasn't enough to make me really admire this movie, which is believed to be the earliest surviving film of director Roland West, but it made it better than painless.

Eugene O'Brien, as her partner in crime, also gets a few good scenes, and there is some lovely location shooting in Manhattan and along the Hudson River. But except for Miss Talmadge's fine acting, I would have missed them.

Bob

Interesting review, Bob. A film I have not seen but it certainly sounds interesting.....

First fumble..... The Witching Hour has a donor restriction, which is no surprise since the donor is Paramount. I've been through this corporate chair before, resulting in zero response from Larry McCallister. I'll give it another try.

drednm wrote: 1918
KEYS OF THE RIGHTEOUS Enid Bennett

I'm personally more interested in interesting dramas that show a difference in behaviors
of the time compared to today. There seems to be this self-sacrificial impulse in early
silent films that you do not as often see today. Not in throwing oneself to the lions
for someone, but being able to care for people in various ways, especially family. I would
be more interested in supporting these kinds of films coming out into the open, instead
of the average comedy, since already hundreds have become easy to access.


The Keys of the Righteous is set along a lonely stretch of the U.S.-Canadian border, which for nearly two decades has served as the residence of heroine Mary Manning (Enid Bennett). Frustrated and lonely, Mary is unable to leave her home because she must care for her invalid mother. Nor is she able to shake off the belief that her birth was the cause of her clergyman father's fall from grace. Not having seen her father in years, Mary becomes convinced that a ragged stranger (Josef Swickard), who has come to her door seeking shelter from the cold, is her long-lost daddy. It turns out that Mary's instincts are correct, whereupon she promises her dying mother that she will take care of her indigent father. Alas, despite Mary's best efforts, her dad returns to his old hedonistic ways, bringing further shame upon his family. Following her father to the local village's red-light district, Mary is arrested on suspicion of soliciting, a charge which she does not dispute, hoping to protect her father from further disgrace. But a kindly judge sizes up the situation and orchestrates a reconciliation between father and daughter -- and extracts an iron-clad promise that the father will immediately clean up his act. ~ Hal Erickson, Rovi

From http://www.nytimes.com/movies/movie/976 ... s/overview" target="_blank

Here's a photo of Enid Bennett in Her Husband's Friend (1920)

SKIN DEEP sounds interesting: an ugly deformed gangster serves with valor and distinction in WWI, but is led back to criminal paths by his old gang afterward. The IMDB review suggests some melodramatic bits and one great action sequence. Milton Sills shone in character parts and this sounds like a prime example.

Yike. Had a nice-but-brief chat with a VP at Paramount today. We'll talk again in the next few weeks.

Bob, et al -- the hitch with the Talmadge films is that the elements are owned by by Cohen/Rohauer, so even if it's a PD title you still gotta get them to say yes, and also pay them money.

Ben

BenModel wrote:Bob, et al -- the hitch with the Talmadge films is that the elements are owned by by Cohen/Rohauer, so even if it's a PD title you still gotta get them to say yes, and also pay them money.

Ben

But only if they are the donors to LOC, right? They can only control PD films they have donated to LOC.

drednm wrote:

BenModel wrote:Bob, et al -- the hitch with the Talmadge films is that the elements are owned by by Cohen/Rohauer, so even if it's a PD title you still gotta get them to say yes, and also pay them money.

Ben

But only if they are the donors to LOC, right? They can only control PD films they have donated to LOC.

They are the successors to the Douris Interests, which are successors to Rohauer. Effectively the same thing.

Bob