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drednm wrote:

kaleidoscopeworld wrote:

drednm wrote:Here's an example. Dutch EYE has a film with a Dutch title that translates into DEVIL DRINK or DRINK DEVIL. The actors are not identified. It's a 1913 or 1914 film that runs around 12 minutes. Turns out the film is actually one that has been considered among the lost. It's Herbert Brenon's Absinthe and stars King Baggot and Leah Baird.

Or is it? According to people in that thread, it may not actually be Baggot's Absinthe.

It mentions absinthe several times......

RIght, but the consensus in that thread seems to be that it is a different film about absinthe, not the Brenon/Baggot/Baird film.
I've watched it, but I'm not familiar enough with any of the potential actors to ID them. Edit: Having a quick look now, the leading man is a convincing match to the photo of Glen White linked in that thread.

Yes you are correct. That's what I get for accepting someone else's info without checking it out. LOL.



It's the Glen White film from 1913.

But the example of titles and translations stands.

craig2010 wrote:Westegg: When we researched the Film Preservation Study way back in 1993, we did a very rudimentary year by year survival rate based on Embryo, a long-ago precursor to current databases. I noticed that back then as well--suspect it had something to do with WWI winding down, all the chaos in Europe and its impact on US film distribution, film stock might have been of poorer quality, etc. Always felt that would make an interesting topic for someone

It's also because after WWI ended, nobody wanted to see war features, especially if they were full of propaganda against the Huns. So the chances of WWI films being re-issued (with the exception of something like Soldier Arms) were pretty low. There was no incentive for distributors to keep prints of WWI films. It would be the mid-twenties before audiences would be interested in seeing films about the Great War again.

wingate wrote:I am afraid the situation referred to above already occurred many years ago with the BFI.Many years ago when Warners closed their Teddington studios.They offered the prints of their films to the BFI.Unfortunately they were at the time rather elitist so they refused the offer.Warners junked the prints.About 30 still survive.However there is for example only 100 feet of Educated Evans one of Max Miller's most famous roles.I would emphasise nothing to do with current staff.

Sounds horrifying, although could it be possible that it was due to a lack of suitable space and resources. Of course they should have found a home somewhere. I noticed one of their films, THE CHURCH MOUSE (1934), with Ian Hunter and Laura LaPlante, on YT the other day...

Donald Binks wrote:I think the whole problem boils down to a lack of money. There are just not enough resources with some archives to know what they've got.

It would be wonderful if an international team of auditors could be funded. This body could then be charged with doing a full and complete inventory of every archive on earth - finely tuned so that all films are properly identified.

Yeah, I know, dream on...

One would happily offer one's own services for a modest fee... However the chaotic state of my own archive would suggest it not to be the greatest of ideas...

I have no absolute proof of course but I'm sure there's a wealth of lost/missing movies out there that would happily shock all of us. Between protective collectors, mislabeled foreign archive prints and 4 DEVILS unknowingly lying under someone's floorboards, I'm sure it would offset that depressing list a bit.

westegg wrote:I have no absolute proof of course but I'm sure there's a wealth of lost/missing movies out there that would happily shock all of us. Between protective collectors, mislabeled foreign archive prints and 4 DEVILS unknowingly lying under someone's floorboards, I'm sure it would offset that depressing list a bit.

Sounds like a good reality TV Show, "Is It Under There or Not?"

Are the films in the list reportedly lost totally, or would 'lost' include films which survive in such poor shape as to be unviewable? Would help to have some clarification. And it would be interesting to trawl through some of the books on missing films to see what has since turned up. I have a couple, 'Missing Believed Lost', and Frank Thompson's book, but it would be useful to read of further worthwhile titles.

I think the database is an invaluable resource to finding out what happened to that long lost or still extant feature. Steve's right on the money that the database is a monumental work in progress.

There have been some great corrections to changing surviving films from their lost or No Holdings status ie:
*The Beloved Rogue(1927)
*The Tongues of Men (1916)
*Outcast (1928 Corinne Griffith)....( the sought after 1922 Elsie Ferguson version based on the 1915 play she originally starred in is still lost but was said in a William Powell biography to maybe survive in Italian archive;he had an early role in the film.)


But there are still some listed as lost when there's evidence they survive:
*Ponjola(1923 Anna Q. Nilsson; in private collection as stated in the McFarland book on Olive Borden who had a small role.)
*Two-Gun of the Tumblewee(1927); the film is on DVD
*Brotherly Love (1928); Karl Dane, George K. Arthur comedy -- according to IMDb, a print is held at UCLA

Some are not in there at all:
*The Honeymoon(1928) (part two of Stroheim's The Wedding March)
*Hearts in Exile(1929) Dolore Costello romance, it had sound but was also screened in silent versions


But, yes the list/database is a helpful tool and in a sense a lot of fun at times tracking down some of the classic silents and their performers.

There were some errors in the original database that have been corrected (including The Beloved Rogue).

I used the AFI Catalog as the basis for the silent feature film survival study, and as The Honeymoon (1928) was not released in the United States, the AFI did not include it. Also, as the study describes, part-talkies were included if a silent version was also produced. If an all-talkie version of the film was released, then it was outside the definition of a silent feature film used for the study.

All that survives on Brotherly Love (1928), among many other late silents, are the discs at UCLA. Silentera.com made this error frequently, and that information was picked up by IMDB. With this titles and many other late silents, if no moving image material survives, the film is lost.

Throughout this work, conducted with the support of the Library of Congress and additional research by Steve Leggett, we have been fastidious about only including films as surviving when their existence is verifiable. I followed up on many of these stories, and it was frustrating to verify screenings as late as the 1960s of films that are now completely untraceable.

David Pierce
author, "The Survival of American Silent Feature Films: 1912–1929"

sepiatone wrote:I think the database is an invaluable resource to finding out what happened to that long lost or still extant feature. Steve's right on the money that the database is a monumental work in progress.

There have been some great corrections to changing surviving films from their lost or No Holdings status ie:
*The Beloved Rogue(1927)
*The Tongues of Men (1916)
*Outcast (1928 Corinne Griffith)....( the sought after 1922 Elsie Ferguson version based on the 1915 play she originally starred in is still lost but was said in a William Powell biography to maybe survive in Italian archive;he had an early role in the film.)


But there are still some listed as lost when there's evidence they survive:
*Ponjola(1923 Anna Q. Nilsson; in private collection as stated in the McFarland book on Olive Borden who had a small role.)
*Two-Gun of the Tumblewee(1927); the film is on DVD
*Brotherly Love (1928); Karl Dane, George K. Arthur comedy -- according to IMDb, a print is held at UCLA

Some are not in there at all:
*The Honeymoon(1928) (part two of Stroheim's The Wedding March)
*Hearts in Exile(1929) Dolore Costello romance, it had sound but was also screened in silent versions


But, yes the list/database is a helpful tool and in a sense a lot of fun at times tracking down some of the classic silents and their performers.