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A couple of Days ago Derek B generously provided a link where a man claimed that TCM had broadcast Marion Davies THE CARDBOARD LOVER before? Does anyone know if this is correct? I have had TCM for nearly 10 years and have never seen it aired. My copy is a bootleg from the now defunct Forgotten Films. Not horrible quality, and it has a good score too. But there is a counter running on the screen throughout the entire film?


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movi ... f2f34d1f1c


Did THE CARDBOARD LOVER have a Western Electric Track in 1928, and if so does it still exist? If so, maybe TCM has run the movie? I have a bunch of Silents that TCM hasn't broadcast in years and years. Most with synchronized scores. So just maybe this is one of them that I somehow missed??? Any information would be most appreciated. Thanks.

As far as I can tell, TCM has never aired The Cardboard Lover (aside from clips in the Marion Davies documentary). No other AMS posts mention TCM showing it, and even if it had been run in the earliest days of the channel, someone would probably have mentioned it. It is possible that an overseas branch of TCM (or some other network) aired it. We already know that The Blackbird was ready for air some time before it was actually shown, but I know nothing further in this regard.

None of the sources I consulted (the NYT review, the AFI catalogue, et al.) mention a synchronised score for The Cardboard Lover. MGM's two other releases for August 1928 (Four Walls and The Mysterious Lady) also seem to have been released without tracks.

There are indeed a lot of films from the 1928-31 period that TCM has shown only a few times, like The Viking, The Flying Fleet, It's a Great Life, The Great Meadow, In Gay Madrid, Call of the Flesh, Desert Nights, and many of William Haines's early talkies. Others seem to be caught up in rights problems, like Letty Lynton, Christopher Bean, and Night Flight. I certainly hope that TCM tries to clear these films for airing as they did the RKO titles.

-Harold

Harold,

Thanks. I didn't think that TCM had run THE CARDBOARD LOVER, and was quite stunned to read the post. He must have been mistaken about this matter?

Some of the Silents that I have which TCM rarely runs are THE FIRST AUTO (1927), THE TRAIL OF '98 (1928), THE TIDE OF THE EMPIRE (1929), SPEEDWAY (1929), WEARY RIVER (1929), and Chaney's WHERE EAST IS EAST (1929). Now you have informed me of several others that I previously had heard nothinjg about. I will need to hunt those down. So that is great. Gives me more to look for. Incidentally, I know it hasn't been on TCM, but has anyone here ever seen TILLIE THE TOILER before? Maybe at a live screening someplace?

I also have TCM versions of King Vidor's PEG'O MY HEART (1922), and Henry King's THE WHITE SISTER (1923) without scores. Actually they do have scores, since I added them. What about the Tod Browning films THE MYSTIC, and MAGICIAN? Have they run either of those before?

DESERT NIGHTS was on Silent Sunday Nights in early 2006. So they did run that again a couple years ago. And THE DIVINE LADY was on in August during Marie Dressler day. Prior to that it had not been shown since 1997. I really wish they would run WHERE EAST IS EAST again, as my recording is rather sub-par.


By the way, have they ever run WINE OF YOUTH before? I know it's a long shot, but I just thought I would ask. Again, thanks for mentioning all those extra titles I don't have yet!

Precode,

There are no "underlying story rights", where THE FAIR CO-ED is concerned. They haven't aired that either. Just another film that needs a score I guess? Thanks for the information.

So has anybody here seen TILLIE THE TOILER before? If so, what can you tell me about it? A friend of mine just snagged a copy from some guy overseas!

There are no "underlying story rights", where THE FAIR CO-ED is concerned

Why do you say that? It's based on a play by a fairly famous author (George Ade-- I've been to the Indiana rest stop named for him) so it's exactly the sort of thing that would have those issues (famous authors being in a better position to negotiate non-perpetuity deals).

Which film are we talking about that has the rights problems? They do run the 1942 version of "Cardboard Lover" (Norma Shearer's last film) from time to time, as well as The Passionate Plumber (based on the same source material).

Tillie the Toiler was remade by Columbia in 1941, so that film might be more of a question mark.

While we're on the topic, are there rights (or print) issues with Caught Short or This Mad World? Neither of those 1930 pictures has shown up on TCM as far as I know.

-Harold

Unless it's been found in the last 20 years or so (i.e. since a list of MGM vault holdings made the rounds), CAUGHT SHORT's soundtrack is lost.

I've always been curious about those talkie Rin Tin Tin films that Warners made. They never seem to turn up on TCM, unless they got by me somehow. Are they lost? Missing their discs?

The Marion Davies version of THE CARDBOARD LOVER has never been shown on TCM because they consider the surviving materials to be below par quality. Their print, which was shown at Cinecon several years ago, does has decomp running through goodly portions of it, but it was certainly watchable. It was not released with a synchronized score.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Chris Snowden wrote:I've always been curious about those talkie Rin Tin Tin films that Warners made. They never seem to turn up on TCM, unless they got by me somehow. Are they lost? Missing their discs?

Based on various AMS posts, here's the survival status of the Rin Tin Tin films that had soundtracks:

The following are not known to exist:

A Race for Life (28)
Rinty of the Desert (28)
Frozen River (29)
The Man Hunter (30)
Rough Waters (30)

The following do exist, but I don't know if TCM has them:

Land of the Silver Fox (28) GEH
The Show of Shows (29) Rinty has a cameo, and this has been aired
Tiger Rose (29) at U of Wiscosin-Madison; Rinty has a supporting part
On the Border (30) at U of Wisconsin-Madison

I've never heard one way or the other about The Million Dollar Collar (29).

-Harold

Richard M Roberts wrote:The Marion Davies version of THE CARDBOARD LOVER has never been shown on TCM because they consider the surviving materials to be below par quality. Their print, which was shown at Cinecon several years ago, does has decomp running through goodly portions of it, but it was certainly watchable. It was not released with a synchronized score.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

And we ran the LoC print, since Warners has no materials, nor did we have to clear it with them (Warners, that is).

Mike S.

Very interested to see that IN GAY MADRID (1930) among others is not only extant but has been aired on US tv. I saw a (very worn) trailer for this a long time ago and have come across a clip on YouTube but until now had no idea whether or not it had survived. Nitrateville has been a fascinating source of information as well as offering mouth-watering details of vintage film showings 3000+ miles away. However, the films being uploaded on YouTube, etc and now coming up for sale offer ample consolation. Beats the stuff being offered on British television (with a few honourable exceptions) over here,...

THE FAIR CO=ED is on YouTube, but mute, and of inferior quality. It seems to be a recording taken from a cinema showing, and uploaded for those of us who can't get to festivals easily or live across the Big Pond. Possibly worth your downloading until a decent copy comes along...

The Cardboard Lover was screened at the Stanford Theatre in Palo Alto. It was a really wonderful film and the print was good.

Richard M Roberts wrote:The Marion Davies version of THE CARDBOARD LOVER has never been shown on TCM because they consider the surviving materials to be below par quality. Their print, which was shown at Cinecon several years ago, does has decomp running through goodly portions of it, but it was certainly watchable. It was not released with a synchronized score.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

When Richard Roberts origionally wrote this, it was before the LOC restored (or at least I thought it was restored)a print of this movie.
I saw said print at the LOC Culpepper, VA location (with the estemed and knowledgeable Mr. Roberts in attendance) in July of 2012.

What has happened to the LOC potential restoration (which I thought was a lovely print of a delightful film) since 2012?
I haven't seen it show up on disc or broadcast. I don't know why. Is there something about the fotmat that it is not acceptable for broadcast? I certainly wish TCM would air it, and certainly wish it would come out on disc.

Agnes

Agnes wrote:When Richard Roberts originally wrote this, it was before the LOC restored (or at least I thought it was restored)a print of this movie.
I saw said print at the LOC Culpepper, VA location (with the esteemed and knowledgeable Mr. Roberts in attendance) in July of 2012.

What has happened to the LOC potential restoration (which I thought was a lovely print of a delightful film) since 2012?
I haven't seen it show up on disc or broadcast. I don't know why. Is there something about the format that it is not acceptable for broadcast? I certainly wish TCM would air it, and certainly wish it would come out on disc.

Agnes

Was there a score synced to the restoration you saw in Virginia? That could be the reason; many films are not shown on TCM because they have no scores.

Ben Model played for it and he was absolutely great. It seemed to me to be the same print shown in 2004 at Cinecon with slight but extensive decomp. -but so watchable, Agnes has forgotten. And what do you know -Nils Asther could do comedy.

The print has some decomp in some spots and was preserved from Marion Davies' print in the LoC collection. It's not going to look any better unless another print turns up. It's a great film, and I remember the audience really enjoying it when we ran it at LoC Packard.

Ben

Eric Cohen wrote:Ben Model played for it and he was absolutely great. It seemed to me to be the same print shown in 2004 at Cinecon with slight but extensive decomp. -but so watchable, Agnes has forgotten. And what do you know -Nils Asther could do comedy.

I <3 Nils Asther!

BenModel wrote:The print has some decomp in some spots and was preserved from Marion Davies' print in the LoC collection. It's not going to look any better unless another print turns up. It's a great film, and I remember the audience really enjoying it when we ran it at LoC Packard.

Ben

Maybe now that one of the reels turned up in 2015 supposedly in better condition than the one held by the LOC, a new restoration could be done incorporating that improved reel. I'd love to see this film.

WaverBoy wrote:

BenModel wrote:The print has some decomp in some spots and was preserved from Marion Davies' print in the LoC collection. It's not going to look any better unless another print turns up. It's a great film, and I remember the audience really enjoying it when we ran it at LoC Packard.

Ben

Maybe now that one of the reels turned up in 2015 supposedly in better condition than the one held by the LOC, a new restoration could be done incorporating that improved reel. I'd love to see this film.

It's in the group of Davies' MGM silents now owned by Warners. Only Show People, The Red Mill, and The Patsy have surfaced as releases. Quality Street was issued as an extra on the Davies documentary.

While copyrights on Janice Meredith and Yolanda may possibly have lapsed, Warners still controls Zander the Great, Lights of Old Broadway, Beverly of Graustark, Tillie the Toiler, The Cardboard Lover, The Fair Co-Ed, and the silent Marianne.