10 Best Silent Films Poll

[T0m M]

These are the films that I repeatedly go back to and would take on my Arctic assigment:

The Wind
Sherlock Jr.
The Big Parade
Why Worry?
Miss Lulu Bett
Peter Pan
Nosferatu
Hindle Wakes
Orphans of the Storm
My Best Girl

[jeff]

1. Liberty
2. Two Tars
3. Modern Times
4. Why Worry?
5. Safety Last
6. Sherlock Jr.
7. The Immigrant
8. The Circus
9. The Goat
10. The Spanking Age

[R Michael Pyle]

1. Birth of a Nation
2. The Kid
3. Sir Arne's Treasure
4. Napoleon
5. J'Accuse
6. Pandora's Box
7. The Iron Mask
8. The Life Story of David Lloyd George
9. Safety Last
10. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
11. (I know, I can't count!) The Penalty

[laugh4me]

Here goes, in no particular order :

The Patsy
Sherlock Jr
Fatty and Mabel Adrift
Metropolis
M
The Doll (Die Puppe)
Sunrise
Girl Shy
Faust
One Week

[Gregg Rickman]

Long time reader; first time poster.

The Mothering Heart
A Dog’s Life
Der Mude Tod
Sherlock Jr.
The Love of Jeanne Ney
Koko’s Earth Control
Lonesome
The Passion of Joan of Arc
The River
Wiggle Your Ears

Chronological order; alphabetical within years. I stopped at 1929, otherwise I would have to consider such films as AN INN IN TOKYO and MODERN TIMES. Also limited to one film per director. Very sorry not to include so many other films!

[Mike Gebert]

And the winners are...

2009 NITRATEVILLE POLL/TOP TEN SILENT FILMS:

1. Sunrise (15)
2. Sherlock Jr. (11)
3. City Lights (10)
4. The Kid (9)
....Nosferatu (9)
6. The Big Parade (8)
....The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (8)
....The Crowd (8)
....Metropolis (8)
....Pandora's Box (8)

11. The General (7)
.....The Passion of Joan of Arc (7)
.....Safety Last (7)
14. Greed (6)
.....Seventh Heaven (6)
.....Steamboat Bill Jr. (6)
17. Broken Blossoms (5)
.....Faust (5)
.....Girl Shy (5)
.....My Best Girl (5)
.....Napoleon (5)
.....The Wind (5)

FOUR MENTIONS: A Cottage on Dartmoor, The Docks of New York, Flesh and the Devil, The Kid Brother, Lonesome, The Man Who Laughs, Peter Pan, The Unknown

THREE MENTIONS: Big Business, The Circus, Destiny/Der Mude Tod, Intolerance, The Iron Mask, It, I Was Born But, Die Nibelungen, Our Hospitality, Paths to Paradise, The Patsy, Speedy, The Thief of Bagdad, Tol'able David, Les Vampires, Way Down East, Wings

more to come...

[Mike Gebert]

And the winners are...

2009 NITRATEVILLE POLL/TOP SILENT FILMMAKERS*:

1. Buster Keaton (36)
2. F.W. Murnau (30)
3. Charlie Chaplin (29)
4. Harold Lloyd (27)
5. King Vidor (24)
6. D.W. Griffith (18)
7. Fritz Lang (17)
8. Mary Pickford (12)
9. Douglas Fairbanks (11)
....G.W. Pabst (11)

11. Frank Borzage (10)
12. Stroheim (9)
13. Robert Wiene (8)
14. Clarence Brown (7)
.....Carl Dreyer (7)
.....Laurel & Hardy (7)
.....Victor Sjostrom (7)
.....Josef von Sternberg (7)
19. Herbert Brenon (6)
20. Tod Browning (5)
.....Paul Leni (5)
.....William Wellman (5)

2009 NITRATEVILLE POLL/TOP SILENT FILM PERFORMERS**:

1. Buster Keaton (36)
2. Charlie Chaplin (29)
3. Harold Lloyd (27)
4. Janet Gaynor (23)
5. Lillian Gish (15)
6. John Gilbert (14)
7. Louise Brooks (12)
....Mary Pickford (12)
9. Douglas Fairbanks (11)
10. Lon Chaney (10)

11. Laurel & Hardy (7)
12. Valentino (5)
13. Greta Garbo (4)

* Defined as both directors and stars who had primary creative control over their own vehicles, whether credited as director or not
** A totally arbitrary decision was made to count only people represented in the voting by more than a single title, thus no listing for Conrad Veidt, George O'Brien, etc. Note that cameos— e.g. Gish in Intolerance— are omitted.

more to come...

[Mike Gebert]

Results of Alt.Movies.Silent poll, as posted August 23, 1996, with annotations in color:

1. The Crowd (13 votes) down 5
2. Sunrise (12 votes) up 1
3. Greed (11 votes) down 11
4. City Lights (10 votes) up 1
5. The General (8 votes) down 6
6. Pandora's Box (7 votes) unchanged
7. Wings (6 votes) off list
8. The Big Parade up 2
The Kid Brother off list
The Last Laugh off list— only one vote!
Metropolis (5 votes each) up 2

RUNNERS-UP:
12. The Gold Rush off list
It off list
Nosferatu up 8
Sherlock Jr. (4 votes each) up 10

FILMS MENTIONED ON THREE LISTS: Intolerance, The King of Kings, Napoleon, The Navigator, Orphans of the Storm, Our Hospitality, The Passion of Joan of Arc, The Phantom of the Opera, Potemkin, Safety Last, Show People, Steamboat Bill Jr., Two Tars, Underworld

FILMS MENTIONED ON TWO LISTS: Big Business, The Birth of a Nation, Broken Blossoms, Chang, Faust, Flesh and the Devil, The Gaucho, Girl Shy, Hell's Hinges, The Iron Horse, The Kid, Mantrap, The Man Who Laughs, The Man With a Movie Camera, Modern Times, One Week, Orphans of the Storm, Robin Hood, Speedy, Stella Maris, The Tempest, The Thief of Bagdad, The Toll of the Sea, Why Worry?, The Wind

PERSONALITIES:
F.W. Murnau-- 23
Chaplin-- 22
King Vidor-- 21
Keaton-- 21
Lloyd-- 13
Clara Bow-- 13 (including 6 votes for Wings)
von Stroheim-- 12 (only one for a film besides Greed)
Fairbanks-- 10
Griffith-- 10
G.W. Pabst-- 8
Fritz Lang-- 6
Lon Chaney-- 6
Cecil B. DeMille-- 5
Mary Pickford-- 4
John Barrymore-- 4
Laurel & Hardy-- 4
Von Sternberg-- 4
Garbo-- 3
Valentino-- 3
Eisenstein-- 3
William S. Hart-- 2
Flaherty-- 1

[Mike Gebert]

Okay, so by my best count 43 different lists yielded no fewer than 200 films, on the nose.

For me the first obvious conclusion is that the lists are far more diverse than they were 13 years ago— we've seen a LOT more movies from a lot more places. I think I was the only one to mention any Asian film in '96, for instance, but not only did my choice (I was Born, But) get three votes this time, another Ozu film got a 4th, and a Naruse film and a Chinese film got votes as well.

You see this especially in the comedians— Keaton, Chaplin and Lloyd all scored very highly, but (following high-profile video releases) they did so for a much broader range of their work, which had the effect of pushing them down the list as votes were split among more titles. It's less obvious than it once was that The General, The Navigator (which got no votes at all), The Kid Brother or Safety Last are the great Keaton or Lloyd films, as multiple votes came in for once lesser-known films such as Go West, The Cameraman, Speedy or Girl Shy. But in fact this spread of votes among more titles proved to be the case throughout— I wasn't surprised Murnau and Vidor scored the highest among pure directors, for instance, but this time they were helped by votes for once little-seen titles such as Faust or The Patsy, not just Sunrise or The Crowd.

Availability on video obviously helped a number of films and filmmakers— four votes for A Cottage on Dartmoor, Joe May's three votes (two for Asphalt and one for The Indian Tomb) or Mauritz Stiller's three (two for Sir Arne's Treasure, one for Gosta Berlings Saga) wouldn't have been possible in 1996. And it seems likely that perennials such as Metropolis, Caligari and Nosferatu were aided by video versions which finally did them full visual and narrative justice. Conversely, the slide of The Big Parade, The Crowd, Greed and Wings all probably have something to do with the fact that they were easier to see in 1996, fresh on laser and VHS, than they are now.

On the other hand, Potemkin is easier to see in a better version now, too, and it only got one vote (the only vote for Eisenstein and one of only two for Soviet film at all). Compare this list to what the film histories say has been important and there are some notable omissions: Flaherty and Vertov completely absent (not a single vote), Soviet film nearly so, Griffith personally well represented but no single film standing particularly highly. DeMille has gone down, Borzage and, most surprisingly, Herbert Brenon have gone up.

On the other other hand, comedians aside you couldn't exactly say we were a star-obsessed bunch, either; Clara Bow has fallen significantly since 1996, and there was no burning love for Garbo or Pola Negri, though Mary Pickford has gone up (again, no doubt thanks to video availability). Chaney and Fairbanks did all right, though I'm surprised mine was only one of two votes for William S. Hart. All in all, we seem to go for films of strong directorial imprint... but they have to have an emotional impact too, like Sunrise or City Lights. Too auteur-cold or too star-driven and we withhold our highest approval.

And despite the frequent gibes made at them or the I-just-don't-get-it posts, Louise Brooks continues to be a striking personality, earning votes for Pandora's Box, Diary of a Lost Girl, and Beggars of Life— and The Passion of Joan of Arc has a strong following as much as it has detractors.

[boblipton]

I've been looking at this list on and off for a few hours, trying to think what, if anything, the results mean. None of it is terribly surprising. To me the biggest shock is SHERLOCK JUNIOR coming in second in the poll instead of something more conventional. Also of interest is the fact that the newest poll shows more of a bias towards comedy. Is this because even in a group like this the 'serious' movies have become less relevant, the comedies are inherently better and we are clearer on this or just random shifts due to the group polled?

I note that the only short subject to show up is BIG BUSINESS and that, with the exception of LES VAMPIRES, everything is from 1920 or later. Both of these tendencies are understandable -- there is an unspoken assumption that longer works are better than shorter one -- certainly a good long work is more intricate -- and technique continued to evolve rapidly.

But what does it all mean? Considering how out of step I am with the other folks here, my only conclusion is that this poll, like all others, is relatively meaningless in any deep sense, although it is fun.

Bob

[silent-partner]

Plebians.
How can you all be so wrong? It shocks and disturbs me that Fairbanks 'Mystery of the Leaping Fish' is absent from your collective lists.

[Gagman 66]

With respect I am not very impressed. The results of this poll bare almost zero resemblance to a similar poll taken on the Silver Screen Oasis forum just last year! Practically nothing here matches that poll in any way!

[Mike Gebert]

With respect I am not very impressed. The results of this poll bare almost zero resemblance to a similar poll taken on the Silver Screen Oasis forum just last year! Almost nothing matches that poll in any way!

Not sure why that's a bad thing, or a good thing— just evidence of difference in the audience, one imagines.

[Gagman 66]

Mike,

Hey, Nice to see Bardelys And The Count Dueling overhead! I already received my set from Flicker Alley yesterday. Just watched Gilbert's daughter reflect on him. It was wonderful.

[Chris Snowden]

And the winners are...

Can you really draw any conclusions from our Top Ten lists, though? Some people named the ten films they enjoy the most, and others named the ten films they think are the greatest. Apples and oranges, I think.

[silentfilm]

And the results would be much different if we could choose from more films. There were certainly more than ten great silent films. I think that some of the perennials like The Gold Rush and The General would have moved up the list. And I would have had room for more non-Hollywood films like Metropolis, Downhill, and A Cottage on Dartmoor.

Like I said in my post before, I can name ten Laurel & Hardy shorts that I think are great. And stuck with only one Chaplin slot, I had to drop things like The Pawnshop and The Kid.

It would be interesting to see a list of everyone top ten from the 1910s, or even the aughts (1900s).

[Mike Gebert]

Well hey, start a top ten of the pre-1920 era thread.

I certainly find it hard to evaluate earlier silents against the slicker, more modern films of the late 20s (I had one 1919 film on my list but otherwise mine is nearly all 1927 or later). So it would be interesting to see what comes up in a pre-1920 list.

[Danny Burk]

Like I said in my post before, I can name ten Laurel & Hardy shorts that I think are great. And stuck with only one Chaplin slot, I had to drop things like The Pawnshop and The Kid.

I think that this explains, in part, the high ratings for many comedy features. Not that they're not great, of course, but I noticed in viewing the lists that many of us had the thought of "well, I have to include a Chaplin, and I should include a Keaton, and a Lloyd, and....."

Nothing wrong with this, but perhaps the "one of this and one of that" mindset prevented listing others that we wanted to include but didn't. Maybe someone wanted to include 3 Keatons out of the 10 titles, for example, but instead chose to list one Keaton, one Chaplin, and one Lloyd. On the other hand, if one thought that a Keaton title should be one of the ten, "just because", perhaps he or she included it rather than listing a different film that didn't make the cut.

[Mike Gebert]

Actually, several people did list three Keatons or three Lloyds. I was a little surprised because, yeah, it seems to me like you should only have one from any one person. Even though, why?

I thought for a while about ditching every title I named 13 years ago and forcing myself to think of all new titles-- as it was I booted Sunrise just out of boredom with it being #1 or #2 for so long, cut The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg because if I thought it was that great I should have watched it again in 20 years, etc. So my list had a few new things (Asphalt) but not as many as it could have.

[Gagman 66]

Mike,

Well, I think OLD HEIDELBERG, or THE STUDENT PRINCE if you prefer is a great, great movie. I ended up watching the whole thing again last week on TCM even though it was on late at night. Something I never intended to do. I have a good Laser-disc transfer on DVD-R. However, just like THE BIG PARADE, once you start watching it is not easy to stop. I have seen the picture several times, but never grow tired of it.

They played some very good sound films of Lubitsch last Tuesday evening including LITTLE SHOP AROUND THE CORNER, NINOCHKA, and THE MERRY WIDOW, but for shear emotional punch, and depth of character none of those can compare to OLD HEIDELBERG. And Jean Hersholt gives one of the most memorable performances ever as Karl Henrich's mentor Dr. Juttner. Virtually stealing the movie away from it's two giant Stars. The entire cast is just tremendous. Generally OLD HEIDELBERG, or THE STUDENT PRINCE , is in my Top 10 Silents list, and sometimes in the Top 5.

There has been virtually no talk of a DVD release for this movie at all that I recall? At least as far as I know there hasn't been one? Probably because of the lack of a more recent restoration than the early to mid 80's? I believe it was 1984 that the version was produced. I used to have a list of the years of the Thames Silents, but lost it some time ago. Could have been earlier than that?

When referring to the great MGM Silents not yet on DVD, OLD HEIDELBERG it seems is never brought up. Maybe by a few fans, but I don't remember any of the Warner Chat's ever mentioning the title in the past? There is no question that the film could stand some re-mastering. The Thames print is a relatively soft transfer, and has allot of artifacts. Some tints would also help to distinguish a few of the night scenes from daylight. In all honesty, if not for Kevin Brownlow, and the late David Gill the film probably would never have been revived, and would not be known at all today. It's possible that newer prints have been screened at some recent festivals, but I have no confirmation of that being the case. o

[boblipton]

I understand why people chose slicker productions from the 1920s. For me, there is an enormous power in seeing something as it was done for the first time which is why I included the film study of McKinlay's funeral. I also considered one of Coolidge's campaign movies - VISTING 'ROUND COOLIDGE CORNERS is the title off the top of my head.

In reality, it would be easier to compose a top 100 with a twenty-five title leeway than a top ten.

Bob

[Jim Roots]

I didn't participate in the voting, for a variety of reasons -- although I would like to point out that I vote in every political election, so I'm not a complete deadbeat!

For me, the main problem (other than a general contempt for top-ten lists and all things David Letterman) is that it was just too broad. I am not willing to compare Two Tars with It and Hell's Hinges.

For next year's poll -- assuming Mike makes this an annual event -- I would very strongly recommend specific categories: Short Comedies (1-3 reels), Feature Comedies, and Feature Dramas would be a decent start. I can see the argument for splitting up categories by era, too, but let's start with just 3 or 4 generic categories to avoid getting too complicated.

And I would have voted for Hart too, Mike!

Jim

[Mike Gebert]

Considering what a pain tabulation is... I think every 13 years is good. But feel free to start polls for subcategories.

I don't think the results have some scientific legitimacy, but I do think they offer an interesting snapshot of how people look at the field these days. For me the most interesting part is seeing films like Seventh Heaven and A Cottage at Dartmoor working their way up the list from semi-obscurity; the top ten could have just about been the top ten of 40 years ago, Caligari and City Lights and so on, but below that it's more intriguing.

[Penfold]

I'm just delighted that a couple of non-Hitch British Silents are 'bubbling under' in the charts...A Cottage on Dartmoor and The Life Story of David Lloyd George would not have been generally available even five years back, let alone appreciated; I don't know what would happen if The First Born, Shooting Stars or High Treason ever get a DVD release, but it would be nice to see these generally underappreciated (outside of the UK, at least ) films get some belated recognition. I'll have to come up with a British Silent Top Ten....

EDIT; sorry if this repeats the ideas in Mike's post, I started writing my post before his was onscreen.

[Frederica]

I'm just delighted that a couple of non-Hitch British Silents are 'bubbling under' in the charts...A Cottage on Dartmoor and The Life Story of David Lloyd George would not have been generally available even five years back, let alone appreciated; I don't know what would happen if The First Born, Shooting Stars or High Treason ever get a DVD release, but it would be nice to see these generally underappreciated (outside of the UK, at least ) films get some belated recognition. I'll have to come up with a British Silent Top Ten....

EDIT; sorry if this repeats the ideas in Mike's post, I started writing my post before his was onscreen.

I would like a chance to see The Life Story of David Lloyd George, it's not exactly showing around my hood. But I liked A Cottage on Dartmoor...except for the one quibble...and I like British silents and British films in general. More, please.

Heck, I even rush out to see the plethora of Welsh-language films released each year. Erm.

Fred

[boblipton]

Freddy, I'd like a chance to see anything by anyone. Got dental x-rays? Lemme see!

Bob

[Harlett O'Dowd]

I think that this explains, in part, the high ratings for many comedy features. Not that they're not great, of course, but I noticed in viewing the lists that many of us had the thought of "well, I have to include a Chaplin, and I should include a Keaton, and a Lloyd, and....."

More to the point is Mike's original set of instructions:

1. Jot down your top ten, preferably without looking at the lists as they're posted. You can define "top ten" however you want-- greatest, favorite, most artistically important, what you'd most happily watch again, stuck on a desert island with, however you choose.

I think a lot of us (well, I did) based our decisions not only out of a desire to be representative of major artists, but also on films we love to watch over and over again.

I'm sure many nitratevillaisn consider BOAN one of the greatest films ever made, but it's probably not high on your list of Saturday night popcorn fare.

And I think that ease in repeat viewings give late silents an edge over films from the 00s and 10s.

The list may be better described as "most beloved" insetad of "best" - which may be the best way to compile these types of lists in the first place.

[Frederica]

I think a lot of us (well, I did) based our decisions not only out of a desire to be representative of major artists, but also on films we love to watch over and over again.

I left out the part about representing major artists.

Fred

[Norma Desmond]

I have agonised over this for weeks, to the point that I have been commited to a State Hospital. I hope all of you out there know the sacrifices I've made for Nitrateville.

ND

1. Pandora' Box
2. The Wedding March
3. Greed
4. Foolish Wives
5. Queen Kelly
6. Don Juan
7. Four Horsemen of the A.
8. Sunrise
9. The Big Parade
10. The Thief of Baghdad