Toll of the Sea: Gorgeous

misspickford9 · Post by **misspickford9** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:37 am

The Silent Movie Theatre ran Toll of the Sea last night and it the first time I had seen it. Judging by the early technicolor list I've seen every surviving thing except The Black Pirate and The 10 Commandments. Of course clips arent the same as an entire movie in technicolor.

It was like something out of the 60s quality wise! Just MIND blowing! I know it was 2 strip color (red and green) so most people seem to think thats the only colors used but especially in the early scenes I thought it looked very vibrant across the board.

You know its ironic and sad: this was Anna May Wong's first starring role, and it was actually a pretty sensitive one that gave her a chance to ya know ACT instead of being an evil Chinee. You think with such a good start she could have just gone from there but it still boggles my mind how Hollywood wouldn't let her (well you cant blame Hollywood alone, the Hays Office more like it).

Sure she still dies (per the usual) and theres some funny Engrish (though in fairness I didnt find it stereotypical; seems legit for someone who barely ever would use English)...but still the costumes were MIND BLOWING and Anna is the sympathetic character...of course maybe thats just to modern eyes. Hays office and Yellowface rules make it so someone has to die when interracial love occurs; and even though it wasnt her fault she being the Asian had to jump off the cliff in the end.

Anna was a good actress, though she rarely got to show it. She reminded me a lot of Mary Pickford particularly in the sad scenes; for a little girl who grew up mimicking movie stars in the mirror I'd say she did quite well. Also she faced hellfire for being the first but what she did was so important; to this day so few Asians (let alone Asian women) get to star in an American film (less it be a Kung fu movie).

I'm still madly in love with the technicolor as well. It was like seeing Claroscureaux photos coming to life. Its such a shame that color was deemed frivolous and not a necessity until the late 20s (yes yes I know it was extremely expensive and complicated to run). Ah to have Valentino or Theda Bara or Mabel Normand or even Charlie in color (for his long career he was only in color once: his last directed film as a cameo)! Frankly it would be mind blowing.

Okay I'm done gushing. In fairness the plot was a tad bit weak (could have been better had they flushed it out a little more) and most of the other actors were forgettable (the guy was okay, the catty girls were funny, and the baby was adorable). But still!

rudyfan · Post by **rudyfan** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:38 am

Color was not deemed frivolous, it was damned expensive to produce. Bottom line, dearie.

Post by **Mike Gebert** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:51 am

I thought Toll of the Sea worked very hard and ingeniously to avoid situations that would involve the colors that didn't work very well in two-strip, so that when you saw her in a room of lacquered red, you didn't think about how you never saw true purple or yellow. (Indeed, the story may have been chosen because traditional Chinese colors suited the process well.) No other two-strip film I've seen seems so carefully and thoughtfully designed to show off the process at its best, and the effect is really quite impressive.

Harlett O'Dowd · Post by **Harlett O'Dowd** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:01 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:I thought Toll of the Sea worked very hard and ingeniously to avoid situations that would involve the colors that didn't work very well in two-strip, so that when you saw her in a room of lacquered red, you didn't think about how you never saw true purple or yellow. (Indeed, the story may have been chosen because traditional Chinese colors suited the process well.) No other two-strip film I've seen seems so carefully and thoughtfully designed to show off the process at its best, and the effect is really quite impressive.

While this gets us into sound teritory, I thought the art direction for Follow Thru and The Vagabond King used the available colors to great effect. Nancy Carroll - with her green eyes and bright red hair was really made for 2-strip. I have yet to see FT without having the audience audibly gasp at her introductory close-up.

Individual silent scenes work well in color - the bal masque in POTO, the underwater balet in The Black Pirate, etc. But yes, as a start-to-finish achievement, Toll of The Sea is probably the creme de la silent creme.

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:50 pm

I'm gonna be pedantic here-- guys, it's not two-STRIP. The Technicolor cameras only exposed one strip of film, recording two frames at once through a beam splitter. The confusion arises from perhaps the fact that the original technique involved cementing two strips of film back to back.

Why Technicolor did not utilize Kodak's duplitized film like every other sane color company on the market at the time is still a mystery to me because the double-cement process was the worst.

I find TOLL OF THE SEA to be a colossal bore, myself, but it does utilize the process well. It is one of the few RG Technicolor films in which the negative still exists, which is why it looks so clean (although I also wonder how accurate the timing is-- the new prints are a little too bold in the color for that period). Ironically, it was the first film that Technicolor shot for commercial use (the true first Technicolor film, THE GULF BETWEEN, used an additive system and was basically a promotional film behind the guise of a dramatic production), and because the last reel of TOLL was missing, Bob Gitt headed down to the beach with an original RG Tech camera and shot that footage of the waves crashing in the '80s, making it the LAST film shot in the process.

misspickford9 · Post by **misspickford9** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:19 pm

Jack Theakston wrote:I'm gonna be pedantic here-- guys, it's not two-STRIP. The Technicolor cameras only exposed one strip of film, recording two frames at once through a beam splitter. The confusion arises from perhaps the fact that the original technique involved cementing two strips of film back to back.

Why Technicolor did not utilize Kodak's duplitized film like every other sane color company on the market at the time is still a mystery to me because the double-cement process was the worst.

I find TOLL OF THE SEA to be a colossal bore, myself, but it does utilize the process well. It is one of the few RG Technicolor films in which the negative still exists, which is why it looks so clean (although I also wonder how accurate the timing is-- the new prints are a little too bold in the color for that period). Ironically, it was the first film that Technicolor shot for commercial use (the true first Technicolor film, THE GULF BETWEEN, used an additive system and was basically a promotional film behind the guise of a dramatic production), and because the last reel of TOLL was missing, Bob Gitt headed down to the beach with an original RG Tech camera and shot that footage of the waves crashing in the '80s, making it the LAST film shot in the process.

I was going to mention that but it opened up a mostly off topic can of worms for me. I had been wondering these past few weeks if one took a camera from the 1920s and had the appropriate film (is that even possible?) could they get the same results or not?

Judging by Toll of the Sea Im guessing no? It didnt match the earlier ocean scenes at all...I mean yeah its good enough to wrap up the plot but the colors almost seem more dim and less exciting then they did in the original. Anyone know why that is?

Added off topic question: is The Black Pirate (color version) on DVD anywhere?

Gagman 66 · Post by **Gagman 66** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:28 pm

Jack,

The Two-color Technicolor of THE VIKING looks much more impressive than TOLL OF THE SEA does. It is even a huge advance over STAGE STRUCK and THE BLACK PIRATE.

Misspickford9,

THE BLACK PIRATE Technicolor version is on DVD from Kino, but the restoration dates back to 1985 or so. Still looks pretty good.

Post by **Mike Gebert** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:28 pm

I'm gonna be pedantic here-- guys, it's not two-STRIP

'

Yeah, I know, but name another term for two-strip and three-strip that people would understand as referring to the correct films/time periods.

Frederica · Post by **Frederica** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:36 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:
I'm gonna be pedantic here-- guys, it's not two-STRIP
'

Yeah, I know, but name another term for two-strip and three-strip that people would understand as referring to the correct films/time periods.

One Strip Two Frame Beam Split doesn't have the same ring to it.

Fred

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:37 pm

I had been wondering these past few weeks if one took a camera from the 1920s and had the appropriate film (is that even possible?) could they get the same results or not?

Yes, you could basically load the camera with normal, panchromatic film and get away with it, as opposed to the three-strip camera which specifically needs bipack stock (with a red-dyed orthochromatic strip in front and panchromatic in back). Since Kodak doesn't produce the latter anymore, shooting three-strip would be impossible unless you special ordered stock

Judging by Toll of the Sea Im guessing no? (...) but the colors almost seem more dim and less exciting then they did in the original. Anyone know why that is?

Could be any number of reasons. I thought it looked fine, but it could have been crappy optical work. The ocean is also not very colorful and doesn't exactly give the best example of what it could look like.

Added off topic question: is The Black Pirate (color version) on DVD anywhere?

Kino. Caveat emptor: it's not the original version, which only survives in black and white, but an alternate version made from outtakes.

Rolling Eyes The Two-color Technicolor of THE VIKING looks much more impressive than TOLL OF THE SEA does. It is even a huge advance over STAGE STRUCK and THE BLACK PIRATE.

Perhaps. To my eye, it seems the same, but you have such wild variables here. Six years of difference for development, possibly a print vs. camera negative. Whose first attempts ever look as good as their last?

Yeah, I know, but name another term for two-strip and three-strip that people would understand as referring to the correct films/time periods.

"Two-color Technicolor," "Two-tone Technicolor," RG (red/green) Technicolor? Systems I (additive), II (double-cement) and III (dye-transfer) if you want to get specific.

But calling it "two strip" is purporting a myth. It's like representing 3D films from the '50s with red and blue anaglyph glasses, even though every 3D feature released in the US in the '50s was shown with Polaroid glasses. It's just not factually true, as romantic or iconic as it might seem.

Jim Gettys · Post by **Jim Gettys** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Two-color TC is often called R/G (red/green) TC. I presume these colors were chosen to get good skin tones. Were the other two possibilities (red/blue and green/blue) ever tried, perhaps for special effect?

--- Jim Gettys

Post by **Mike Gebert** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:29 pm

Ones from the 30s seem to be much more aqua/peach than red/green like Toll of the Sea or brown/navy blue like The Black Pirate. I don't know how accurate any of those are... but red/green Technicolor would seem to be quite inapt to me as a way to refer to, say, the current, available versions of Mystery of the Wax Museum and Dr. X.

rudyfan · Post by **rudyfan** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:06 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:Ones from the 30s seem to be much more aqua/peach than red/green like Toll of the Sea or brown/navy blue like The Black Pirate. I don't know how accurate any of those are... but red/green Technicolor would seem to be quite inapt to me as a way to refer to, say, the current, available versions of Mystery of the Wax Museum and Dr. X.

To derail the original post even further (sorry) having not seen either of the two above Warner titles in a long time, how are the prints on them? I'm very interested in Mystery of the Wax Museum, it is muddy looking?

For the record, I do agree with MsPickford, the film is stunning and Anna May Wong gives a very touching performance. I'll need to revisit it from the Treasures series.

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:46 pm

The red/green combination was a holdover from the earliest additive systems, such as Kinemacolor. These early stocks used only orthochromatic film that had to be sensitized for red light (which in itself was only red-orange because of the limitations of the stock).

Once Kodak introduced duplitized stock in the 1910s, companies that specialized in color went subtractive printing quite quickly, since there was no actual patent being enforced for that sort of color system. So you have a slew of processes-- Prizma, Brewster Color, Magnacolor, Multicolor, etc., that are all essentially the same printing technique. Most of these systems used the red/cyan (or blue) combination, since ferric ferrocyanide (aka Prussian Blue) toning was probably more effective than green vanadium ferrocyanide toning (or dye mordanting, which Technicolor was doing for their double-cement process... these prints fade!).

Technicolor's dyes were always Fast Red and Pontacyl Green. The video transfers you see of some of these films often do not reflect how the original films actually looked. Original Technicolor prints are very subdued, with an overall sepia cast, vibrant reds, and delicate, pastel greens. An artistic decision was made for the restoration of THE BLACK PIRATE that I regret-- in order to make the sky look natural, they used a red/cyan combination in printing, and everyone's skin tones are so mistimed, they look like they have cholera because of it. Revisionism gone bad.

WB's new transfer of MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM is clear, but has been futzed around with so that it looks blue/red. It looks terrible because of it. Compare it to the old LD, which wasn't adjusted and you'll see what I mean.

DOCTOR X on DVD fares better, but the colors have been really boosted.

Richard P. May · Post by **Richard P. May** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:01 pm

The source elements on both DOCTOR X and MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM were internegatives made from the only known existing prints around 1988.
Print damage is evident, especially in MYSTERY...
This could be both good and bad: Bad because the negatives are not available to make the earliest generation transfer, Good because the prints gave an accurate reference to what the image should look like.

Gagman 66 · Post by **Gagman 66** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:15 pm

As regards to the other thread, SHE'S A SHEIK originally had Technicolor scenes. Does anyone know where they were in the film? I assume not, since no one has seen the movie, but maybe there are productions notes or something?

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:15 pm

"Two-strip" is and always was inaccurate for the negatives, but I don't understand why it cannot apply to the release prints of 1922-1927. In Technicolor Movies: The History of Dye-Transfer Printing (McFarland, 2003) Richard Haines does refer to Process II as "Two-Strip Cemented Positive".

It's a little like referring to those shellac discs as "78s". Many, many of them, especially in the acoustic years, were not recorded at 78 rpm and playing them at that speed can alter the pitch and misrepresent what the instrument/performer sounds like. I *know* that's true; no one needs to remind me. But convenience and semantic sanity dictate that "78" is still the acceptable shorthand, and if anyone tells me "that Caruso record isn't a 78, it's a 74" or "you should really call them 60-90 rpm records", they're going to find a spindle hole around their neck.

-Harold

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:52 pm

Harold, both valid points. But calling THE VIKING or MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM "two strip" isn't very true either, because they're dye-transferred, not cemented. And then you're confusing the term "three strip," which specifically refers to the negative count.

And with the amount of research that he did Haines book should not have the amount of errors it does (example: listing BEAU GESTE as having two-color Technicolor scenes), he should have known better than to call it that.

The term "78 rpm" at least has its basis in a more accurate generalization, since 78 rpm would be about the average speed or middle ground between the recording speeds of the day.

Gagman 66 · Post by **Gagman 66** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:24 pm

So where was/now is the Technicolor footage to KING ON MAIN STREET? What portion of the film was it in? Anyone know? I have seen the film. No Technicolor. Yet it's listed as surviving? Bessie Love looks her very best in the picture.

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:11 pm

KING was 1925, so in all likelihood, the footage faded before someone got to the print, and it was probably duped in black and white. My notes say that the end of the film was Technicolor.

Gagman 66 · Post by **Gagman 66** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:16 pm

Jack,

Kind of like SEVEN CHANCES and IRENE I suppose? By the way, in the listing for WINGS on TCM Movie Data Base under Alternate Versions that is also said to have originally had Color sequences. Apparently some of the Battle scenes. But it is not listed on Harold's chart. Note it reads "In color"- not tints.

Post by **Danny Burk** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:25 am

The version of KING ON MAIN STREET that's around is the 5-reel Kodascope cutdown. I've never heard whether the complete version survives or not, but as far as I know, Technicolor footage was never included in Kodascope prints and so it would have existed only in the original complete version.

The Kodascope version's ending is very downbeat and I suspect that the full version probably had a happy ending (most likely a Technicolor wedding sequence). Someone with access to a plot synopsis, cutting continuity, etc could verify whether this is correct.

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:21 am

Re: WINGS. Not natural color-- as I recall it was Handschiegl or some other applied process. The film was also extensively tinted and toned.

misspickford9 · Post by **misspickford9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:24 am

rudyfan wrote:
Mike Gebert wrote:Ones from the 30s seem to be much more aqua/peach than red/green like Toll of the Sea or brown/navy blue like The Black Pirate. I don't know how accurate any of those are... but red/green Technicolor would seem to be quite inapt to me as a way to refer to, say, the current, available versions of Mystery of the Wax Museum and Dr. X.
To derail the original post even further (sorry) having not seen either of the two above Warner titles in a long time, how are the prints on them? I'm very interested in Mystery of the Wax Museum, it is muddy looking?

For the record, I do agree with MsPickford, the film is stunning and Anna May Wong gives a very touching performance. I'll need to revisit it from the Treasures series.

I think the scene where she's giving her son away is the most touching. Yeah the plot is hard to give up emotions to but Anna was just a mind blowing actress. It is perhaps on par with the tragedy we never got a Mabel Normand masterpiece that we never got an Anna one either. Damn circumstances.

Odd note: according to the ever unreliable IMDB the baby is still alive and 92 by my account. Thats as mind blowing as the screening of Sparrows where they said the curly haired baby's DAUGHTER was in the audience; she looked about my Grandmother's age.

Harlett O'Dowd · Post by **Harlett O'Dowd** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:36 am

misspickford9 wrote:
I think the scene where she's giving her son away is the most touching. Yeah the plot is hard to give up emotions to but Anna was just a mind blowing actress.

yea, someone should turn that story into an opera.

misspickford9 · Post by **misspickford9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:21 pm

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:
misspickford9 wrote:
I think the scene where she's giving her son away is the most touching. Yeah the plot is hard to give up emotions to but Anna was just a mind blowing actress.
yea, someone should turn that story into an opera.

hahaha. It may be a rip off of Madame Butterfly but its not the best one by far.