silent films that show people watching film?

[Rollo Treadway]

Somewhat in the manner of Laurel & Hardy's later Sons of the Desert, Fatty Arbuckle in A Reckless Romeo (1917) is tripped up by a treacherous newsreel camera, capturing his philandering which is then revealed to his wife and mother-in-law when he takes them to the movies.

Does anyone know where Robert Youngson took this footage from? It's the opening of 30 Years of Fun, but I believe he employed the same opening on other of his compilation features, as a sort of trademark:

[Gary Newman]

In the final and best scene of Prix de Beaute, 1930 (spoiler alert), newly minted movie star Louise Brooks is shot by the working class husband she left behind as she watches her film premier. In the iconic final image, Louise dies in close up while in the background the projected Louise lives on into immortality. Prix de Beaute was originally shot as a silent, and later adapted for sound. I believe both versions were released and still survive, although only the latter is available on DVD (Kino).

[Big Silent Fan]

[quote="Beth C-D"]I’m a PhD candidate at Northwestern, writing on the cultural reception of silent film. At the moment, I am attempting to compile a list of silent films in which we see people watching films.[quote]

Wow! 14 months later and this posting is still at the top...and Beth is still watching it! I've seen most all of the earlier suggestions. I might as well add one more that most here have never seem. It's "Maciste" (1915), the first of a whole series of films based on the strongman character from the huge hit, "Cabiria" in 1914.
You can find the complete "Cabiria" available on line, but the only clip I've found of "Maciste" doesn't illustrate the movie theatre experience. I've made a brief website showing what is seen in the opening four minutes of the story.

http://community-2.webtv.net/BigMovieFan/Maciste/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Christopher Jacobs]

No one seems to have mentioned CRAZY TO ACT (1927) with Oliver Hardy, who reluctantly finances his girlfriend's amateur movie and is distressed with her love scenes both during the shooting and as they all watch it projected on the screen. It's on DVD from Kino. Clips from this were also included as part of the odd British compilation film THE SLAPPIEST DAYS OF OUR LIVES (1953), which is a bonus feature on the BFI's release of PENNY POINTS TO PARADISE.

[Lokke Heiss]

Here's a great movie to track down-The Stolen Voice. Not only do we watch people watching movies, the act becomes a vital part of the plot. Here's my review:

One of the most pleasant surprises of the festival was the showing of a relatively unknown film, The Stolen Voice (1915). This film was made in Fort Lee, New Jersey, which was the original American movie-making capital before the appeal of sunny skies and a healthy distance from New York patent attorneys enticed studios to move to southern California. Directed by Frank Lane, The Stolen Voice is the story of a famous opera singer, Gerald D’Orville (Robert Warwick) who, under a hypnotic suggestion by Svengali-like Dr. Von Gahl (Giorgio Majeroni), loses his voice. Completely mute, Gerard leaves for Europe for a cure. Told his case is hopeless, Gerard returns to America, where he is befriended by an old friend, Dick (Bertram Marburgh) an alcoholic whom Gerald had previously rescued from the gutter.

A reformed Dick is now a movie producer, and has a job for which Gerard never needs to say a word — he is cast as a movie matinee idol. With only a few exceptions (like The Hunchback of Notre Dame) silent films rarely had a character who was mute or deaf — perhaps there was a fear of calling attention to the fact that everyone in a film made in that era, is in effect, mute. That is, silent film is not ‘silent’ (there is almost always music playing with the images) but the key element that defines the art form is that silent film has no synchronized dialogue. In a silent film, characters may communicate by title cards, but words cannot be spoken aloud. The Stolen Voice brilliantly disregards the silent film taboo of a mute character, and Gerard finds himself with a second career — a film actor — working in a medium in which his disability is in many ways an asset.

When Dr. Von Gahl, (who made Gerard mute because he was jealous of Gerard’s success), goes to the movies, he is shocked to find that his archrival, Gerard, is the star of the film, now more popular than ever. The enormous, dominating image of Gerard is too much for Dr. Gahl to take, and he tries to run out of the theater. But in a exceptionally clever shot, in an almost literal coup de cinema (“blow of the cinema”), the bad doctor collapses directly underneath Gerard’s image on the screen, thus lifting the hypnotic spell, allowing Gerard’s voice to return. The Stolen Voice is a wonderful, entertaining film, and a terrific example of the level of sophistication already reached by filmmakers in 1915.

[FrankFay]

That IS a good one- and Robert Warwick gets to play for both drama and laughs. This one is available for viewing on the Eastman House site.

[greta de groat]

Since we were referencing The Picture Idol in this thread, i thought i'd mention here that it is now available online.

http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip ... 101_s01.do" target="_blank

I watched it last night. It's quite amusing, and despite the Dutch titles is perfectly easy to follow.

greta

[FrankFay]

Thanks! Very amusing to try and see any of Drew Barrymore in her great grandfather.

[greta de groat]

Thanks! Very amusing to try and see any of Drew Barrymore in her great grandfather.

So far i haven't seen much evidence of Costello features in her, aside from the blonde hair. To me she has the classic Drew face. They really have strong genes.

greta

[FrankFay]

Thanks! Very amusing to try and see any of Drew Barrymore in her great grandfather.

So far i haven't seen much evidence of Costello features in her, aside from the blonde hair. To me she has the classic Drew face. They really have strong genes.

greta

Maybe a little Costello in the set of the eyes. Time will tell- no matter how different the Barrymores might have looked when young they all aged the same way. I wish that John and Lionel had been in one good picture where they had really played off each other. When either of them starts leering they become identical twins.

[Beth C-D]

[quote="greta de groat"]Since we were referencing The Picture Idol in this thread, i thought i'd mention here that it is now available online.

http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip ... 101_s01.do" target="_blank" target="_blank

Thanks Greta! I've been dying to watch this film!

[Richard P. May]

How did everyone miss SHERLOCK JR.?
I saw this last week as part of the Academy's series of programs "Inside the Booth". A full house at the Linwood DunnTheater (283 seats), and great reception.

[Rodney]

How did everyone miss SHERLOCK JR.?

Actually, it was mentioned in the first post as an example.

As another example, I recently watched Les Vampires (1915), and in the sixth episode, the comic side-kick disrupts a movie screening when he recognizes Irma Vep and the Grand Vampire in a newsreel about a murder. Technically it's a curious scene -- from the framing and size of the actors in the "movie," it looks like they weren't confident of being able to film a projected film, so the scene on the "screen" was actually a set that looks like a movie.

My interest is in film musicians, of course, and this theater has a four or five piece orchestra playing for the newsreel: upright piano, 2 violins, cello, and a guy standing at the left... bass? It's a little hard to see. They're all facing the screen, and have no conductor.

[Richard P. May]

Right! I read the list of films without paying much attention to the text.

[Ed Watz]

How about Will Rogers' Hal Roach short UNCENSORED MOVIES, in which the rural audience is watching Will's movie clips projected on a home theater screen in a schoolhouse or church setting?

And then there's Harry Langdon's TRAMP, TRAMP, TRAMP, in which Harry's wheelchair-bound dad (Alec B. Francis) has easy access to the ticket booth, entryway, and an aisle spot to watch Harry onscreen in the newsweekly, surely a thoughtful and considerate movie house for 1926...

It's not a silent film, but Robert Benchley's HOME MOVIES where his friends watch Benchley's silent movies is one of the funniest films ever made.

[Beth C-D]

As another example, I recently watched Les Vampires (1915), and in the sixth episode, the comic side-kick disrupts a movie screening when he recognizes Irma Vep and the Grand Vampire in a newsreel about a murder. Technically it's a curious scene -- from the framing and size of the actors in the "movie," it looks like they weren't confident of being able to film a projected film, so the scene on the "screen" was actually a set that looks like a movie.

One could indeed do a very interesting study about the various strategies of presentation of screens on screen. As early as 1901 the Countryman and The Cinematograph used a matte process [I think that's what its called] to show a film within a film
However, the countryman had to stand off to the side of the frame which gets a bit awkward. The same technique is used in the Edison rip-off (Uncle Josh at the Moving Picture Show) but the actor in this one stands directly in front of the screen and the result is that you see the "projected" images on his body in a way that clearly indicates they are not projected at all, but rather that they are two separate shots matted together.

Then in 1909, the editor for Those Awful Hats,must have spent many tedious hours masking out film where the edges of the women's elaborately feathered hats were supposed to obstruct the view of the other spectators.
I guess the advantage to staging the film within the film scene is a lot less labor in the editing room if you have people standing up in front of the screen-- which I'm thinking must be the case here if it the screening was disrupted?

[Rodney]

I guess the advantage to staging the film within the film scene is a lot less labor in the editing room if you have people standing up in front of the screen-- which I'm thinking must be the case here if it the screening was disrupted?

Here's the episode in question, as it exists on youtube, probably ripped off from the David Shepard / Robert Israel release on Image... unfortunately, it's been youtubized and doesn't have a very good image quality compared to what I was watching before.

Our heroes arrive at the theater at about 3 minutes 30 seconds into the episode, and the "film" runs from about minute 4 to minute 5. I think the "opening title" is just a banner hung on the theater wall (note the lack of flicker). Closeups taken on the stage set imply that there are closeups in the newsreel, although using a stage set makes it impossible to show those closeups as they'd appear "in the theater." It gets the idea across.

[FrankFay]

Definitely a stage set, but the border mask and lighting give a fairly good illusion. To the original audience it would have been convincing enough.

[Rodney]

Definitely a stage set, but the border mask and lighting give a fairly good illusion. To the original audience it would have been convincing enough.

Yes, and the fake rock is a bit of a giveaway too. The action is supposed to be at Fontainebleau, which is famous for having large rocky outcrops in the forest, but it's impractical to bring a real rock indoors (although the actual rocks appear as locations later in the episode).

[Beth C-D]

Definitely a stage set, but the border mask and lighting give a fairly good illusion. To the original audience it would have been convincing enough.

I don't think we have any reason to presume that audiences in 1915 wouldn't be able to recognize this for what it was -- Mabel's Dramatic Career, in 1913, did a much better job of representing a close-up on screen showing the frame of the screen. Plus we have to assume that the quality of the film was much better on the big screen of the picture-palace of the 1910s than it is for us on Youtube. If we can tell the difference, I'm betting they could too.

[FrankFay]

I think that the quality on the screen in 1915 is hard to determine. The quality of the print would have been better of course, but would the projectors of the era have been as brilliant as modern ones? If I recall correctly the screen of the era woudn't have been a modern glass bead screen but a painted wall or a stretched cloth- they were good for sharpness but with less brilliance.

I've even heard of one theater which projected the film on the surface of a huge ground glass frosted mirror.

[greta de groat]

Just spotted another at the Thought Equity site:

Lost and Won (1911) Hobart Bosworth
http://www.t3licensing.com/video/clip/1411119906_s01.do" target="_blank
Near the end of the film, Bosworth goes to the movies and recognizes his girlfriend.

greta

[FrankFay]

The scene starts at the 9 minute mark. They use live actors on a stage to represent a movie, and jump cut to painted flats to represent titles. Not very convincing , though it is clever that they use a double exposure (with an incredibly ragged mask) to put the projector's light beam into the shot.

Very nice to see a fairly young and rather dashing Bosworth.

[greta de groat]

And another one, Idle Wives, from the restored New Zealand films on the NFPF site:

http://www.filmpreservation.org/preserv ... wives-1914

greta

[Rollo Treadway]

Just watched the funny and charming Potseluy Meri Pikford (A Kiss from Mary Pickford, 1927) online. At the beginning we see a Moscow cinema audience enthralled by Doug in The Mark of Zorro. Later on, there's footage of Doug and Mary from their trip to the Soviet Union.

The film can be viewed here:

http://www.filmannex.com/movie/a-kiss-f ... ford/23079

(Russian intertitles only, but the action is mostly self-explanatory.)

Does anyone have the real lowdown on the Pickfairs' involvement? According to a report from the 2009 San Francisco Silent Film Festival, "Fairbanks died without knowing of the film’s existence. Pickford reportedly learned of the film in the late 1940s, but her reaction is unknown." Yet I've read elsewhere that the two of them participated most knowingly as a goodwill gesture to the Soviet film industry, and the key scene, involving the kiss of the title, certainly has Mary acting with leading man Igor Ilyinsky.

[Saimo]

L'illustre attrice Cicala Formica (1920) by Lucio D'Ambra (the so-called "Italian Lubitsch")
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356728/

[FrankFay]

Just watched the funny and charming Potseluy Meri Pikford (A Kiss from Mary Pickford, 1927) online. At the beginning we see a Moscow cinema audience enthralled by Doug in The Mark of Zorro. Later on, there's footage of Doug and Mary from their trip to the Soviet Union.

The film can be viewed here:

http://www.filmannex.com/movie/a-kiss-f ... ford/23079

(Russian intertitles only, but the action is mostly self-explanatory.)

Does anyone have the real lowdown on the Pickfairs' involvement? According to a report from the 2009 San Francisco Silent Film Festival, "Fairbanks died without knowing of the film’s existence. Pickford reportedly learned of the film in the late 1940s, but her reaction is unknown." Yet I've read elsewhere that the two of them participated most knowingly as a goodwill gesture to the Soviet film industry, and the key scene, involving the kiss of the title, certainly has Mary acting with leading man Igor Ilyinsky.

From what I've read Pickford thought that she was being filmed for a newsreel and had no idea that an entire picture was built around it.

[Rollo Treadway]

From what I've read Pickford thought that she was being filmed for a newsreel and had no idea that an entire picture was built around it.

Aha! Thanks, that does at least sound plausible. Them sneaky Russkies!

[Saimo]

L'illustre attrice Cicala Formica (1920) by Lucio D'Ambra (the so-called "Italian Lubitsch")
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356728/

Available on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry9XKCBJLas

[BankofAmericasSweetheart]

Forgive me, I forget which Pickford biography it was, I remember hearing that she was aware of the Soviet Cinema style and admired their films. When she visited Moscow she was asked to participate in a Soviet film and she agreed to it. If this isn't true, I would say I would still be surprised if she wasn't aware that she in a Soviet film. The title has her name written all over it so how could she be unaware of it's existance? She strikes me as someone who isn't unaware of her image.

Just watched the funny and charming Potseluy Meri Pikford (A Kiss from Mary Pickford, 1927) online. At the beginning we see a Moscow cinema audience enthralled by Doug in The Mark of Zorro. Later on, there's footage of Doug and Mary from their trip to the Soviet Union.

The film can be viewed here:

http://www.filmannex.com/movie/a-kiss-f ... ford/23079

(Russian intertitles only, but the action is mostly self-explanatory.)

Does anyone have the real lowdown on the Pickfairs' involvement? According to a report from the 2009 San Francisco Silent Film Festival, "Fairbanks died without knowing of the film’s existence. Pickford reportedly learned of the film in the late 1940s, but her reaction is unknown." Yet I've read elsewhere that the two of them participated most knowingly as a goodwill gesture to the Soviet film industry, and the key scene, involving the kiss of the title, certainly has Mary acting with leading man Igor Ilyinsky.