My updated archives rant

Open, general discussion of silent films, personalities and history.
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Bob Birchard
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Re: My updated archives rant

Post by Bob Birchard » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:55 am

sepiatone wrote:when the LoC restores or preserves a film why does the original studio, providing the studio is still in existence, have a say so over how that film is exhibited or marketed ilregard of copyright. If the studio wants to make claim on a movie they neglected or worse willfully discarded then they need to help the LoC(and like organisations) fund the restoration and preservation of these films.
One could just as easily argue that Paramount did their bit for preservation of their (perceived as) worthless silent library when they turned the stuff over to the AFI in 1969 or thereabouts. I don't necessarily disagree with your notion that taxpayer money ought to mean taxpayer access, but given the recent election results do you really think that Congress wil vote to confiscate Paramount's property rights in their silent library and turn them over to the people? And, as a point of clarification, it was the AFI that received and preserved that Paramount silents--not LOC; although LOC does now control what is called the AFI Collection in the Library of Congress. Also, LOC has generously provided access to festivals and special venues for years and made titles available for video release when they can.

It is all well and good to say Paramount should have no say because they neglected these films, but then they wouldn't have been liberated from the studio vault, wouldn't have been preserved, wouldn't have been circulated to festivals, and realistically wouldn't have survived to the present day to be seen at all. Is that what you would have preferred?

As a film lover, I'm happy to supply a few cents of my tax dollars toward film preservation. And I do my part to get the movies seen by booking them for Cinecon (we ran something like 10 titles from LOC this year). LOC is very aware that they operate on taxpayer dollars and that they have a mandate to provide access, and their web sites, loan programs and preservation efforts are indicative of this awareness.

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Post by drednm » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:25 am

LOC also sells copies of films if they are PD or if the buyer has appropriate copyright info... Other major archives do not do this to my knowledge....
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Post by silentkermy » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:21 pm

ok so let me give my penny of a thought.

lets say for example madame butterfly (just an example since it know its public domain) at the LOC. it would cost alot of money to restore it and have it trasnfered and thus released as an official dvd. it would even cost alot of money to do it once (if only for their own archives) so why not simply transfer the film to a dvd-r once (un restored) and sell it via their web site (and i mean ONLY their public domain films) for like $25.00 a title. it will give them a copy for their archive and allow certain films to finally find a release (and all proceeds go to LOC). specially since chances are alot of films in the archive will never see the light of day, and another depresing thought how much longer do some of the films have before they you know.....

also it seams when they do an order for someone they dont keep a copy of the dvd-r they send (wich they should). i mean for one, if they did they wouldent have to charge all that money to transfer the film again if some one else orders the same title, and that would put less strain on the reels too.

i agree with ed they are libraries, they are meant to present and preserve. but when they start to hoard thats a different matter. and not all of us have the money and time to travel there and set up a viewing time.

oh and im in no way talking about their copyrighted film, although i would love to give the person (or group) that owns the rights to its a wise child a nice kick in the butt (that film needs a release asap).

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Post by boblipton » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:28 pm

Bob Birchard wrote
Are your really a pig-ignorant boob, just naive, or perhaps mad--as in your Mark Twain quote? ;-}

I like to think it's mostly the latter, but, you see, I know it. I just get occasionally tired of all the money I donate to the big charities being spent dunning me for more money, or other fund-raising. I am very appreciative of the work you and others like you do.

I don't expect that Sumner Redstone is going to get religion and bend all of Viacom's resources towards making all of Paramount's extant silent material is conserved, restored and available at popular prices. That's not Viacom's mandate: it's supposed to make money for its shareholders, like Blockbuster did.

However, it would be nice if the non-profits learned to walk the walk as well as they talk the talk. I don't expect that either, but I can recognize the discrepancy as well as you. At least, as well as you would if you weren't locked into this adversarial mode.

At least you put a smiley at the end.

Bob
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Post by drednm » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:35 pm

Daniel that's part of what I've been saying....

It only costs a couple hundred dollars to transfer a film as is from 16MM or 35MM (so far as I know)... selling PD titles to even a few dozen people would pay for the project and the film is "out there" for those interested.

I'm not sure what's wrong with this logic.

Yes many people would prefer seeing "the film" on a big screen, with music etc. Others of us don't care about this.

How many hundreds of PD films sit in vaults, unseen for decades?
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Post by Arndt » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:39 pm

I have given up on the Murnau-Stiftung's commercial sidekick Transit Films. They are an elitist, uninspired, government-funded bunch of ignoramuses, who sit on a wonderful body of film and do nothing with it. Did you know that there is no German DVD of CALIGARI out, and that there never has been? Transit had promised one for 2006. And while KINO and MoC are releasing the Murnau-Stiftung's new METROPOLIS restoration this month, Transit cannot say at what time there will be a German DVD release. I can't help thinking that these people are only interested in their own easy lives and secure pensions. What a shame!
"The greatest cinematic experience is the human face and it seems to me that silent films can teach us to read it anew." - Wim Wenders

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Post by boblipton » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:43 pm

They didn't say which calendar system they were figuring on for that 2006 release, did they? Don't give up now!

Less than six hundred years to Islamic 2006.

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Post by Arndt » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:49 pm

Thanks, Bob. So there is hope yet.

Actually, it's interesting you should mention calendars, because that's the only thing Transit has brought out in Germany in the past few years - calendars! And quite wonderful they are, too. But can you buy them? Oh no! They are given away to a select few as gifts. (Needless to say I'm not one of those select few, nor will I ever be if Transit get wind of my rants here.)
"The greatest cinematic experience is the human face and it seems to me that silent films can teach us to read it anew." - Wim Wenders

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Post by Mike Gebert » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:01 pm

I wish we had more archivists participating here because I think if people understood more about the condition of films in the archives, much of this discussion would go away or at least cool down.

Yes, if you have a TV print you can put it on video for a few hundred bucks or even less and sell it. Go to any film convention, or look for Alpha Video releases on Amazon, and you will see films to which exactly that has been done. They are often murky gray, inaudible, scratched, full of visible splices, etc. Doing work of the quality to which the studios have accustomed us requires more than that-- it requires access to negatives or very high quality prints, often to original audio materials, it requires time on a very high end scanning system, and so on. All that can easily rack up 5 to 6 figure costs on a release.

But silents don't exist in TV prints. They exist in... whatever they exist in. James Cozart of LOC talked at Cinesation about piecing together The Cossack Whip bit by bit because it existed in half a dozen different versions... each of them altered in a different way by a different censor board. He talked about having to rephotograph John Hampton's lone surviving print of The Bright Shawl frame by frame. And so on.

So LOC is not stocked with thousands of films on the shelves like books at Barnes & Noble. It's more like, it has the parts for thousands of films, like hardware at Home Depot. They have to choose projects based on the likeliest prospect for getting something out of them. Which is often nothing more than the few showings they can manage to dig up for them. And if they put them online, then who will go to the trouble to show 35mm when everyone has seen them on You Tube?

There's a wonderful-looking film that Cinesation showed a few years ago. Maybe not a great film dramatically, but a stunning looking film. I forget the name offhand, it had Viola Dana as a Japanese woman. (The Willow Tree? James Bazen will remember.) Seeing this in 35mm was an absolute treat. Would it have been as good on DVD? It would have been pretty good, but less remarkable. It would be hard to imagine actually sitting through it on the computer, though.

So the archives have all these competing needs. To preserve things some people care about and other people don't, and some the first group doesn't and the others do. To be the monks keeping the flame of 35mm and film alive. Instead of complaining about what they don't do, why not support what they do do, and that may lead to them doing more of it-- and some of what you want, too.
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Post by drednm » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:27 pm

Mike, why do you read everything as a complaint?

I thought the point of this board was to discuss and share ideas and ask questions.

If you want this discussion to go away, don't read it.
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Post by missdupont » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:06 pm

While an archive or collector might own a film print of a title, the releasing studio or its owner still owns the copyright. Same with a book. You might own a first edition of ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT, but the author and publisher still own the copyright. They are free to do whatever they wish with it as along as they own it. So it doesn't matter how much money an archive, individual, or government puts into restoring a film, if it is still under copyright, only the owner of that copyright can legally allow it or release it for distribution.

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Post by missdupont » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:16 pm

Great film transfer and restoration is not as cheap as you think. Restoration work can run into thousands of dollars. I know that several years ago transfer was $1 a foot, which really adds up for a feature film of 5000-15000 feet. Telecine time for a quality master is also hundreds of dollars a hour, which means it would cost thousands of dollars for the best digital transfer. And they don't retransfer a film every time a DVD is ordered. Once the master is made, that is what dubs are made from. It's easier and cheaper to mass produce at one time, rather than one at a time, so that makes it more expensive. It's not free to send packages out. You have to pay people to open emails, letters, etc., fulfill them, and send out packages. And those people get benefits, they don't work for free. So it's nowhere near as cheap as most of you people seem to think it is to do a top quality professional transfer and dubbing.

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Post by rogerskarsten » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:33 pm

drednm wrote:Mike, why do you read everything as a complaint?

I thought the point of this board was to discuss and share ideas and ask questions.

If you want this discussion to go away, don't read it.
Well, the title of this thread contains the word "rant," so how can you not read it as a complaint?

I think Mike's contribution to this discussion is just as valid as the others: a healthy dose of reality to go along with the wishful thinking.

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Post by boblipton » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:49 pm

Part of Mike's concern is that the vigorous debate might ..... well, no host likes to see his guests drawing their guns and shooting. Well, few of them and Mike is not one of them.

As for the rest of it, yes, many, probably most of the people who work in archives are good sorts who do it because they love old movie. But part of my work is in analyzing business structures and I have never seen an organization without fat that could be be trimmed, and usually it concentrates around the head. All too often -- perhaps inevitably -- organizations founded for worthy, even noble purposes lose sight of those purposes, and C. Northcote Parkinson was not just making silly jokes when he did research to demonstrate that organizations increase in size regardless of the work done. Eventually the purpose becomes to support the dignity and wealth of the head administrators and the work such organizations were founded for becomes all too frequently, merely a Potemkin village to show people who provide the actual funding.

I don't pretend to be the final authority on which projects the various archives should pursue. A common complaint hereabouts is that this or that particular film is unavailable. Well, there are ways of ameliorating that. Yesterday in my regular perusal of Youtube, I saw a D.W. Griffith short from 1908, THE FATAL HOUR, that I had never seen before. It was blurry, clearly from one of the old paper prints, but it was better than nothing for a Griffith fan like me, and that was what I had of it before yesterday: nothing.

It's great that like-minded fans are wiling to do the work, but there are plenty of substantiated stories of archives standing in the way of people -- Iris Barry, a great woman in film preservation, turned down an offer from William K. Everson to provide money for the preservation of a print because preservation would be done in the order she decreed or not at all... and it was not done.

All too often, I worry, worthy projects don't get done for reasons which have little or nothing to do with anything that has to do with the job at hand. When I see such things in my work, I know how to deal with such matters -- I don't invest in that company, either for myself or the moneys I manage. When I see such things in this hobby of mine, my reaction is much the same -- I don't donate to such organizations But there is much misaligned effort and money going on -- it's always more important to pamper the boss than to get the organization's nominal work done.

I try to thank the people who do the real work. Am I supposed to thank the people who don't, too?

Bob
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Post by drednm » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:58 pm

I was talking mostly about PD films, not films with long attachments of "owners." I was also talking about films that might not need a lot of restoration, though I was not envisioning Barnes & Noble.

But just for a brief second there I got the chilly memory of another message board in a galaxy far, far away ... one that got awfully prohibitionistic.
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Post by Mike Gebert » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:15 pm

Sorry, bad choice of phraseology. Didn't mean the discussion shouldn't happen-- meant that I think some of it wouldn't happen if people had a better idea of the constraints on the archives, and that it isn't as easy as all that in so many of these cases.

Bob, I suspect many people within archives would be happy to agree all day long that there are pompous figureheads here and there, or very nice furniture in executive offices at archives that are starved of other resources, or whatever you choose. God knows, the nonprofit world is as full of executive turf protecting and fiefdom building as, well, every other world. Except the internet message board running one.

But they're making the films as available as they can sometimes. Cinesation likes to show things LOC has done that are incomplete, partly because NOBODY else will show them because they're incomplete. In that case, well, they literally can't give it away. But I believe that if you want to show Lois Weber's What's Worth While at a venue that meets their standards, LOC will get you the 35mm print they worked on so lovingly, and which may have been only shown that once, at a very reasonable cost.

Knowing that there's so much hopeless love going into some of these things at the archives, there was one comment that did bring out a little high dudgeon in me:
The LoC sits on a wealth of great silent material many of us have never even heard about. Im sure many of us don't have the rest of our lives to wait for the LoC, Eastman, MoMA, UCLA etc to show these treasures at THEIR behest.
The picture of imperious, unhelpful archivists this conjures up is just so far from anything I've seen that I just couldn't leave it unchallenged. Come to Cine-whatever and then see if you still feel like that about them, is all I can say.
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Post by drednm » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:23 pm

I'm sure LOC and others are sitting on a wealth of silents.

Maybe I just lucked out but my experience with LOC in buying a copy of the Marion Davies film netted me a complete film in terrific condition. It's PD and (seemingly) ready to go except I have no resources or skills to do anything with it other than watch it.

But isn't this the kind of film that could be bought and scored and marketed by the various DVD companies?

For the companies that DO market PD films, where do they get them? Archives?
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Post by missdupont » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:37 pm

Do any of you know how desperately archives need money to do anything, because thanks to some of the great people elected Tuesday night, their budgets have drastically been cut and probably will be further cut. both LOC and UCLA had to have David Packard finance their new vaults/film archives, because the government wasn't. That's where they're trying to find money now, from people like him and Hugh Hefner, because the government isn't giving them anything, in fact, it's drastically cutting back. UCLA hasn't been able to hire people for years, be it the archives or programming or whatever. They're hanging on by a shoestring. They're just trying to pay the bills, not spending all their time wondering how they can sell DVDs of their films.

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Post by boblipton » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:56 pm

Whereas I, Mike, was not thinking of the Library of Congress. I was thinking of at least one other archive where there are some great people working -- and the usual gang of idiots. I have been privileged -- if that's the right word, which it isn't -- to see the man behind the curtain on several occasions, both in business and in the non-profit world and it's never a pretty sight.

It seems odd to be complaining about the waste in film archives when I have done a half hour on Hewlett-Packard's Board of Directors and can manage an hour on Cisco System if you give me a blackboard and two packs of chalk, one colored. But that's not my money and I have no psychological investment in those companies either.

Nonetheless, there is an absolute difference in these matters: if the CEO of a multi-billion dollar corporation spends ten million dollars redecorating his office, well, that's a pecadillo in terms of scale. But if the director of one of the archives spends ten thousand redecorating his office, that's quantifiable as equivalent to the loss of issuing one economically unsound dvd of a key film -- one of these days I need to ask Mark Roth or Jack Hardy how much one of their dvds actually costs to produce -- and it should be recalled that the purpose of these archives and the reason we support them with donations and government money is that they are supposed to do economically unsound things -- and I don't mean redecorating the CEO's office.


And we all know you're making billions off of Nitrateville, but that's fine.

Bob
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Post by Brooksie » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:14 pm

missdupont wrote:Do any of you know how desperately archives need money to do anything, because thanks to some of the great people elected Tuesday night, their budgets have drastically been cut and probably will be further cut. both LOC and UCLA had to have David Packard finance their new vaults/film archives, because the government wasn't. That's where they're trying to find money now, from people like him and Hugh Hefner, because the government isn't giving them anything, in fact, it's drastically cutting back. UCLA hasn't been able to hire people for years, be it the archives or programming or whatever. They're hanging on by a shoestring. They're just trying to pay the bills, not spending all their time wondering how they can sell DVDs of their films.
and
Mike Gebert wrote:So the archives have all these competing needs. To preserve things some people care about and other people don't, and some the first group doesn't and the others do. To be the monks keeping the flame of 35mm and film alive. Instead of complaining about what they don't do, why not support what they do do, and that may lead to them doing more of it-- and some of what you want, too.
This is the crux of the matter - managing competing needs in the light of severely limited resources. There is an assumption being made that the capacities of archives are unlimited - or at least, that they have existing capacity that they are not using. In my experience, this simply isn't so. Capacity is not only limited, it's a wonder that some are able to keep their doors open.

I'm betting those archivists would love to increase access to their archives as much as we would, but for poorly funded public organisations (increasingly, that's all public organisations, particularly in the arts sector) working around capacity constraints isn't a minor consideration - it's the whole game. Your job is to achieve as much as you can with as little as possible, and in order to do that, some things simply have to be prioritised over others.

A depressing state of affairs, but one I come up against every day in my day job as a public servant.

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Post by Jack Theakston » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:14 pm

I've bowed out of this discussion for better or for worse, but there are points that aren't being made here, so I'm going to hopefully jump in unscathed. Speaking on these terms, I think it's safe to say that most archivists aren't joining the conversation because a) they're busy with their work, rightfully so, and b) I'm sure that many feel that discussions such as these are a waste of time, as there are individuals who will never see it from the other side of the camp.

I'm not really an archivist in a sense that I work for any major archive, but I've worked for a number of archives in the past, and I'm the Vice President of the 3D Film Preservation Fund, which is a 501c3 set up to preserve stereoscopic films. Since most of the materials we work with are on safety stock, and since there isn't a commercially viable way to present these films properly for the home market, a lot of what we do is rather moot to this discussion.

That being said, I'm known as a "get 'er done" sort of guy when it comes to preservation, and somewhat qualified to talk about actual costs, conditions, etc.

A lot of these PD merchants (i.e. always in the $6 and under bin), at their worst are simply copying old tapes of transfers that were done some twenty years ago by people who cared enough to do the transfers in the first place. At their best, they're film-chaining worn out 16 mm prints, hardly what anyone wants to sit through past eccentric cinephiles who will sit through anything.

An example of the former—a good friend of mine, Bob Furmanek, did some transfers of a few PD titles back in the late '80s for Image Entertainment (SCARED TO DEATH, AFRICA SCREAMS, JACK AND THE BEANSTALK, THE DEVIL BAT). Bob went back to as early generation elements as possible, usually prints, but sometimes negatives or fine grains. He paid out of his pocket to sit down at a professional transfer facility to make sure the timing of SCARED TO DEATH was consistent with the original nitrate print that he was transferring it from.

At these places, you book by the hour, and many of the companies that do these on the cheap book a two or three hour slot and do what's known as a "one-light" transfer, in which an un-timed element might pass through the telecine with adjustments done on the fly, or a "best light" where they figure out the average timing and leave it on auto-pilot. Bob pulled strings, favors, and cash out of his pocket to sit down an actually did what you should do when transferring a film, for a mere PRC programmer. To me, that is true dedication.

The end result was nothing short of astounding for its time, and still holds up well today, which is why so many PD outfits have over time, duped the LD, or made backroom deals with various companies to get a hold of copies of Bob's master tapes. If you see SCARED TO DEATH on DVD these days and it looks good, chances are that it's Bob's transfer. Of course, there's nothing he can do about recouping his costs, because the film's PD. But he did it because no one else was going to.

Furthermore, there are a number of people on this very board who have paid out of their own pockets (including myself) to have preservation negatives struck from original elements that were nitrate, or even projection prints when those were the last surviving elements.

About five years ago, the 3D Archive discovered that Library of Congress had what turned out to be the earliest surviving commercial 3D film, a William Kelley/William Crespinel "Plasticon" demo reel. A previous attempt had been made to copy the film, but it never materialized. The 3D Fund ended up spending its own money to do some major work on the film, since we had difficulty in separating the left and right eyes off of an anaglyph print (those interested in the technical details can read about it here). There were no grants involved—the money came out of the individual pockets of the archivists for this project since the film was starting to deteriorate, and we had to do the preservation as soon as possible.

So, you might look at this case and say, "why didn't Library of Congress restore it themselves?" Well, if you consider that the final cost of a negative is minimum of $.60/foot (a very conservative estimate—that's not counting other lab costs), a 1000-foot reel costs about $600 to preserve on film, and most likely just as much to work in the digital realm—again, estimates depend on factors. Ask yourself, "why doesn't Library of Congress do something about it?" for every reel that sits un-preserved and figure out the sum and you will have your answer.

This is on a very simplistic level of preservation—it does not account for anything other than the sheer lab-work that is necessary to preserve a film. But while you might look at the "Plasticon" situation and ask "why didn't Library of Congress restore it themselves," I look at it as, "at least they were well-meaning enough to let us have the film to do it for them," which is always the case for any serious offer to archives for films that don't have donor restrictions on them.

Lest we forget, as well, that we're also in the single worst economic crisis since the 1930s. The DVD market, blind as fans might be to its output, is a perfect microcosm of the reigning in of the lines, as it were. Archives operating in the red during the best of times have it hard enough because they still have to answer to boards, donations, grants, etc., but imagine how much more difficult this is during a time of poor economy.
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Post by DW Atkinson » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:31 pm

Many times in the past I have heard from an archive,
"Want to fund or help fund a preservation? a restoration?"
And just because a title has been preserved doesn't mean there is a projectable print that can be loaned out.
Want to fund a projection print?

Money is the key to getting things done.
Why would the rule$ change in a film vault?
The LoC isn't sitting on anything on purpose. Film preservation is the only thing in the government they could throw money at and make it better.

Every time the talking heads on the news say the US government doesn't produce anything, I know the people at the LoC lab can prove them wrong.

They are the nicest mean people you would ever want to meet.

Dennis

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Post by boblipton » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:23 pm

Arndt wrote:Thanks, Bob. So there is hope yet.

Actually, it's interesting you should mention calendars, because that's the only thing Transit has brought out in Germany in the past few years - calendars! And quite wonderful they are, too. But can you buy them? Oh no! They are given away to a select few as gifts. (Needless to say I'm not one of those select few, nor will I ever be if Transit get wind of my rants here.)

Nowhere near as cool as the ones that Rodney turns out.

Bob
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Post by Mike Gebert » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:31 pm

Thank you, Jack, for saying what nobody is going to say, because they're too busy.

I would never argue with anyone who chooses not to spend their finite life on internet message boards, but if they want public support and to not let misconceptions take root, well, this'd be one place to start getting one and fighting the other.
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Post by Jack Theakston » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:47 pm

I would never argue with anyone who chooses not to spend their finite life on internet message boards, but if they want public support and to not let misconceptions take root, well, this'd be one place to start getting one and fighting the other.
Agreed. There will always be those who disagree, but being more vocal about what it's really all about is important, and having an Internet presence in this day and age is what generates interest and donations. Too many non-profits have only just jumped on this bandwagon.
J. Theakston
"You get more out of life when you go out to a movie!"

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Bob Birchard
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Post by Bob Birchard » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:33 am

boblipton wrote:if the CEO of a multi-billion dollar corporation spends ten million dollars redecorating his office, well, that's a pecadillo in terms of scale. But if the director of one of the archives spends ten thousand redecorating his office, that's quantifiable as equivalent to the loss of issuing one economically unsound dvd of a key film --
Well, clearly you have never been to the offices of the UCLA Film and Television Archive. The Executive offices are on campus and are strictly "school issue utilitarian." The offices where the vaults are occupy the second floor of the old Technicolor Laboratory in Hollywood. That space was gutted when Tech left and was just an open concrete shell. The office walls were built out in the 1980s when the Howard Anderson Co., from whom the company I worked for at the time rented space, decided to move into Hollywood from Culver City. They didn't want to throw us out into the cold, so they put up the steel framing and dry wall. It was after we moved out that UCLA moved in. There are no ceilings in these offices, either. You can look up and see the concrete several feet above the eight-foot-high office walls. The office where Bob Gitt worked for many years had been my editing room, and though others in the archive work out of this office now the space doesn't look a whole lot different than it did in 1985. I would bet that they haven't even painted the space in that time, but if they did it would have been years ago.

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Post by Jack Theakston » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:56 am

I should also add that there are outspoken critics even within the cinephile community that are against public funding of preservation in general. Tom Weaver, who writes for Leonard Maltin's review guides of all places, has been quoted "on the record" as stating: "When it comes to the preservation of the thousand million items of film like that -- get near my tax dollars, pal, and I'll cut your hand off. YOU pay somebody to preserve it, or put it in your refrigerator, or whatever you feel you gotta do. I've got waaay different ideas where my tax dollars should go."
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Post by deverett » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Yes the money is thin and getting thinner...Being state employees most of the UCLA workers had to start taking furlough days last year, plus positions got vacated by a small exodus of employees within the past 2 years and are only now being refilled...The biggest effect this has is how much preservation can actually be accomplished.

Plus not everyone works at the same pace...While one person might be able to preserve up 10-20 titles in a year, someone else may only finish 1 or 2, add to that the amount of films that can only be funded far enough to make a dupe negative simply for safety sake, and then the rest are in no condition to make even a transfer from and you've got your answer why they are not filling the shelves with new dvd's...

OH YES and the agencies that actually give money for preservation generally want to see where the money goes because the money now comes in for specific projects... Many years ago it was more like "Here's such and such amount of money--go have at it and preserve films." Now it is much more regulated as in this amount is for this film, this amount is for archival cans, this amount is for one person to inventory only this collection, and so on....I cannot imagine which archive is living extravagantly decorating etc...I think if you knew you'd see that it is a very humbling experience running purely on desire and whatever resources they can afford, doing as much as possible, which often means protecting, but not always finishing.

This isn't utopia, and obviously not all archivists are the same, but for the most part I think you'll find the people doing the work are there because they are just like you and are extremely passionate about getting the films out to people, but it is not always their call...

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Bob Birchard
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Post by Bob Birchard » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:08 am

Jack Theakston wrote:I should also add that there are outspoken critics even within the cinephile community that are against public funding of preservation in general. Tom Weaver, who writes for Leonard Maltin's review guides of all places, has been quoted "on the record" as stating: "When it comes to the preservation of the thousand million items of film like that -- get near my tax dollars, pal, and I'll cut your hand off. YOU pay somebody to preserve it, or put it in your refrigerator, or whatever you feel you gotta do. I've got waaay different ideas where my tax dollars should go."
What nearly all "anti-tax hawks" and anti-government folks seem to forget when they wave the Constitution around is one very important, if often overlooked, phrase in the document that says that among the reasons the governemt is formed is to "promote the general Welfare."
So tax dollars go into building roads, setting up schools, studying and eradicating diseases, maintaining archives of legislative action and public records, keeping an Army, and any number of other things that one person or another might object to on moral, religious or other grounds. What use is public education to a home schooler? Why would a Quaker support an army? Christian Scientists have no interst in funding the National Institutes for Health. Why would we force employees and employers to contribute to unemployment insurance? Let those no good lazy bastards who lose their jobs fend for themselves. Why should the government legislate copyright protection? Let the artists look after their own interests, and if their works are popular enough to be pirated--why that's just the market in action. Oh, My Bad, copyright is specifically provided for in the Constitution. Why should I as a taxpayer provide school lunches to children who have no food? Why should I pay for disaster relief in New Orleans when my place is just fine where I am? Why should the governmant fund public art--especially when the bare breast on a statue in the Justice Department might offend an attorney general like John Ashcroft. And, God, why, oh why would I authorize my tax dollars for Ashcroft to buy a schmata to cover the statue once I have paid to put the darn thing up in the first place? Why should I support charities and institutions I have no personal interest in by providing tax breaks to churches, or special interest museums, or charities, or cultural institutions?
Is preserving a nation's collective memory a bad thing? If one takes this "not with my tax dollars you don't" attitude, then why should we pay for The Smithsonian Institution, or the Museum of American History, or the National Archive, or the National Portrait Gallery?
And is not film part of our national memory? Frankly, I'd never want to spend a nickel paying to see, let alone preserving, a film by Oscar Micheaux. All of his movies I've seen are terrible. But I do understand that they have a cultural and historical relevance that would make the world somewhat poorer if they no longer existed. Is the public benefit measurable? No, you can't put a dollars and cents value to it--but one might say it is priceless, and so I'm delighted that efforts have been made to collect, maintain and preserve what is left of Micheaux's work.
And it's not just me, as a fan of obscure movies that no one else wants to see. Other peoples and other goverments from Britain, to France, to Germany to the Czech Republic to Russia, to Denmark, to the Netherlands, and on and on, have found cultural value in preserving their film heritage. We sit here and rejoice when archives in New Zealand and Russia repatriate "lost" American silent films. Do we ever ask: Why should taxpayers in New Zealand have paid to collect, store, maintain and preserve these things up to now? I don't know Tom Weaver, but I can tell you that on this point the man is an idiot.
Although I fully believe that there needs to be some fiscal sanity in collecting and dispensing public funds, and I understand that governmet funding of "non-essential" service" ebbs and flows with the vagaries of the economy, public opinion and politics,. I also believe that the founding fathers who framed the Constitution knew what they were doing when they added the phrase: "promote the general Welfare."
We are all richer as a people for interpreting that phrase in a broad context.
Last edited by Bob Birchard on Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gjohnson » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:37 am

I agree with you whole-heartily Bob but it is an argument that gets lost in the noise that we live in today.

Gary J.

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