Whats the chance of a serial...???

Chris Snowden · Post by **Chris Snowden** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:33 pm

silentfilm wrote:And when Blackhawk released the entire serial The Woman in Gray, they released edited versions of each chapter, because the first several minutes of each episode was a recap of what happened in the last episode!

They're edited more than you think. Those were originally two-reel chapters, and Blackhawk trimmed each of them down to a reel or slightly more.

And as skillfully as that was done, those episodes are still a bit of a snooze until the last couple of minutes. That serial did have terrific cliffhangers.

Frederica · Post by **Frederica** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Chris Snowden wrote:
silentfilm wrote:And when Blackhawk released the entire serial The Woman in Gray, they released edited versions of each chapter, because the first several minutes of each episode was a recap of what happened in the last episode!
They're edited more than you think. Those were originally two-reel chapters, and Blackhawk trimmed each of them down to a reel or slightly more.

And as skillfully as that was done, those episodes are still a bit of a snooze until the last couple of minutes. That serial did have terrific cliffhangers.

I tried to watch Officer 444 (the description made it sound like a demented masterpiece), but ended up napping through most of it. I haven't given up on it yet, though. I think it probably loses quite a bit when you watch the episodes back to back--I assume it works better when you watch one episode and then wait for a week or so to watch the next.

greta de groat · Post by **greta de groat** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:25 pm

I did like The Master Mystery quite a bit, but for a total hoot Tarzan the Tiger is hard to beat. I was particularly taken with the Evil Queen La. It was quite entertaining. Unfortunately King of the Kongo is a major snooze, largely because what survives is the part talkie version with the sound track lost, so you get lots of watching people mouthing dialogue.

greta

Tastypotpie · Post by **Tastypotpie** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:39 pm

R Michael Pyle wrote:I don't remember who released it (I'm thinking it was Grapevine), but "Lightning Hutch" with Charles Hutchison is available, and although not technically the rather "new-fangled" girl on the tracks serial, but the old fashioned "feature-style" in segments, this is really good, and photographed particularly well. Hutch was once the main serial guy. This was supposed to be his comeback vehicle, but it failed at the box office.

Interesting that you say it was a failure. I like Lightning Hutch.

But, take a look at this. This news report says that Lightning Hutch was delayed in one city (and probably others) due to Arrow Pictures going bankrupt and not being able to receive prints. Could this be why it failed?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Yv ... utch&hl=en

FrankFay · Post by **FrankFay** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:40 pm

greta de groat wrote:I did like Unfortunately King of the Kongo is a major snooze, largely because what survives is the part talkie version with the sound track lost, so you get lots of watching people mouthing dialogue.

They showed chapter one at Capitolfest, you're right that it's a stiff though it has a surprise or two. I started to drop off during it so it was like:

Snooze, snooze,.....hey- Boris Karloff.........snooze, gorilla,.........WOAH!- GIANT LIZARD!!

syd · Post by **syd** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:08 am

The following links for the Lovecraft is Missing website
chronicles the origin of the movie serial from story
papers to motion pictures and an industry.

Very comprehensive with rare photos.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http:/ ... %3Fp%3D965

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http:/ ... 3Fp%3D1193

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http:/ ... 3Fp%3D1188

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http:/ ... lent-films

Micromegas · Post by **Micromegas** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:15 am

Wow. A lot of differing opinions which, of course, will happen. I think E of E is just fine of what I've viewed (6 episodes)...lot's of good wackiness.

Officer 444, on the other hand, did nothing for me & the only lasting impression that I have are images of O 444's gang in the police wagon whizzing around town. The Power God is a little better but not near up to Trail of the Octopus (based on what I've YouTubed) when talking Gerber/ Wilson serials.

Woman in Grey seemed interesting but, dang, I just realized that I have to finish it off one of these days having only viewed about half of it.

King of the Kongo. yeah, meh...agreed on that.

Steve

Derwiddian · Post by **Derwiddian** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:08 pm

BTW, you can get Volume 2 of Serial Squadron's Beatrice Fairfax even though they don't list it on their site. Check out the SilentSerials.com site. I bought and enjoyed it. Episode 10 features Olive Thomas in her first screen role. Still waiting for Vol. 3 though.

There are six extant episodes of Hazards of Helen on video, though two are only on crummy out-of-print Grapevine VHS, which I was able to rent from Facets.

Facets is also the place to rent the complete Mystery of the Double Cross on VHS, which I think beats buying 15 separate DVD's from Sunrise Silents, with one episode per DVD. (But the DVD's have at least some tinting, and you also get a major feature with each one).

Richard M Roberts · Post by **Richard M Roberts** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:41 am

Derwiddian wrote:BTW, you can get Volume 2 of Serial Squadron's Beatrice Fairfax even though they don't list it on their site. Check out the SilentSerials.com site. I bought and enjoyed it. Episode 10 features Olive Thomas in her first screen role. Still waiting for Vol. 3 though.

There are six extant episodes of Hazards of Helen on video, though two are only on crummy out-of-print Grapevine VHS, which I was able to rent from Facets.

Facets is also the place to rent the complete Mystery of the Double Cross on VHS, which I think beats buying 15 separate DVD's from Sunrise Silents, with one episode per DVD. (But the DVD's have at least some tinting, and you also get a major feature with each one).

I've recently heard a rumor that VCI will be releasing THE MYSTERY OF THE DOUBLE CROSS on DVD.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Post by **silentfilm** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:32 am

An auction for a 16mm print of Chapter 15 of Mystery of the Double Cross ended yesterday, but unfortunately I was out-sniped at the last second.

I do have a print of Chapter 10 though!

Post by **Christopher Jacobs** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:42 am

I've got the first chapter of MYSTERY OF THE DOUBLE CROSS on a Sunrise Silents DVD, and it really made me want to see the rest of it, though not quite enough to buy the 14 other DVDs that include the other chapters, since I already have other versions of many of the features. I hope VCI or someone does the full serial on a DVD set (or better yet, Blu-ray!).

I happen to have the complete Blackhawk version of THE WOMAN IN GRAY on 16mm, and I'd say it's just as well they condensed most of the episodes substantially. It's fairly interesting and has a decent piano track from original silent movie music cues (although a few episodes are completely silent for some odd reason), but the overall serial tends to drag at times, even condensed (though it's been several years since I watched it and is about time to watch it again!). However, I've seen a few of the uncut episodes, and while often more tedious they are of substantially higher picture quality, as the Blackhawk cut-downs had to be duped for the edited versions, whereas the uncut prints were two generations closer, struck from a reduction negative off the 35mm.

--Christopher Jacobs
http://hpr1.com/film
http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs
http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs/Old ... BluRay.htm

Post by **silentfilm** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:13 am

Blackhawk sold the uncut chapter 7, At the Mercy of the Flames for several years without a music track. Later on, they released the entire serial, one episode at a time, in a condensed version with the music track. I only have this chapter, with the music track.

I won a Lightning Bryce episode on eBay last week, and I'm eagerly awaiting screening that chapter.

BenModel · Post by **BenModel** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:54 am

Chapter 2 of the Thanhouser serial "Zudora" -- "The Mystery of the Sleeping House" is on vol 12 of The Thanhouser Collection. I don't know if any other chapters of "Zudora" survive (but I'm sure Ned Thanhouser is looking for them...)

Ben[/img]

Post by **silentfilm** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:32 pm

Blackhawk used to sell The Foiled Elopement, Mystic Message of the Spotted Collar and The Mystery of the Dutch Cheesemaker on film. I had Foiled Elopement on Super 8mm as a teenager, and the story was incomprehensible.

Griggs Moviedrome sold The Mystery of the Sleeping House. So at least those four Zudora chapters survive.

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:48 pm

A serial we're likely never to see (and please, please prove me wrong) is the thirty episode "picturized novel" THE DIAMOND FROM THE SKY, directed by Jacques Jaccard, Irving Cummings and William Desmond Taylor. The prints went all over the world in 1915-16 but not a one seems to have survived(?) Only the opening reel of the later sequel exists but has yet to be copied from the nitrate at LC.
LC also has a fairly good selection of chapters from the Helen Holmes serial THE RAILROAD RAIDERS.

Micromegas · Post by **Micromegas** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:26 pm

Dana wrote:A serial we're likely never to see (and please, please prove me wrong) is the thirty episode "picturized novel" THE DIAMOND FROM THE SKY, directed by Jacques Jaccard, Irving Cummings and William Desmond Taylor. The prints went all over the world in 1915-16 but not a one seems to have survived(?) Only the opening reel of the later sequel exists but has yet to be copied from the nitrate at LC.
LC also has a fairly good selection of chapters from the Helen Holmes serial THE RAILROAD RAIDERS.

I'd like to hear that any lost silent footage turns up but having read the source novel, there has to be better candidates to wish for imho.

Steve

Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:39 am

Take a look at this...The Trail of the Octopus
(note: if you're offended by modern scores, you may not like the music)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1A_OfWU8ao" target="_blank

I think this looks really good. On the serial squadron website it states that chapter 9 is considered lost forever. Kind of screwed for continuity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE HOPE DIAMOND MYSTERY
http://www.serialsquadron.com/dvds/sile ... ndmystery/" target="_blank

This looks interesting. 7 1/2 hours.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that companies like Kino/Milestone/Shepard favor foreign serials. They do favor silent serials. The problem is availability, whether or not there are surviving complete prints, condition of source material, who owns it or has rights to it. America made a lot of films. Many of the silent serials must have not been considered high art since they weren't kept well. Other countries didn't make a thousand movies a day and maybe the ones they did make held in better condition and care.

FrankFay · Post by **FrankFay** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:16 am

Nosferatu wrote:Take a look at this...The Trail of the Octopus
(note: if you're offended by modern scores, you may not like the music)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1A_OfWU8ao" target="_blank" target="_blank

I think this looks really good. On the serial squadron website it states that chapter 9 implete prints, condition of source material, who owns it or has rights to it. America made a lot of films. Many of the silent serials must have not been considered high art since they weren't kept well. Other countries didn't make a thousand movies a day and maybe the ones they did make held in better condition and cares considered lost forever. Kind of screwed for continuity.
.

Continuity might not be fatally injured- there should be a recap of events in chapter 10. Serials were planned to accommodate viewers who missed a week or who had short memories.

Gary Newman · Post by **Gary Newman** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:40 pm

Tastypotpie wrote:Whats the chance of an American serial being released by one of the standard three companies that releases silent films? Like, Kino-Milestone-Shepard? We've had three French Feuillade's, two germans, and one Russian (Miss Mend)

Kino did release a silent serial, The Master Mystery, in its Houdini set. Really nice would be releases of Feuillade’s great Barrabas and Tih Minh.

What are the two Germans?

CliffordWeimer · Post by **CliffordWeimer** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:15 pm

Retour de Flamme, the six-volume French DVD release, includes a really wonderful German serial from 1924 called "Flight Around the World".

The Serial Squadron is infuriating, with excellent work offered for sale besides altered, modernized, unwatchable crap. Never send them money in advance for a "pledge drive"; you may as well shred your dollars.

Tarzan the Tiger and a truncated Tarzan of the Apes have been released; if I recall, the former was from Grapevine and the latter (with a truly dreadful score) came from the Squadron, who also released a silent western serial (I forget the name) with newly-filmed bridging sequences that were so amateurish I was embarrassed for them.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:23 pm

Someone who likes early serials, complaining about amateurish film making? Maybe you're unclear on the concept...

sepiatone · Post by **sepiatone** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:38 pm

Brooksie wrote:Some companies would probably consider the fact that so many serials survive in an incomplete form as a barrier to their release (just imagine a cliffhanger that never gets resolved ... ever!). That doesn't mean there wouldn't be scope for a compilation of episodes from different serials - it would just have a different sort of appeal.

I see that an episode of `The Active Life of Dolly of the Dailies' (1914) was amongst the films found in the New Zealand archive, and is being restored by AMPAS. Perhaps that would be a good candidate for such a compilation?

well that sort of changes once you get to the sound era. My local library had numerous serials from the 1930s to early 50s in Vhs that have now almost all have been replaced by DVD. But they are still from AlphaVideo(the most of them), minus any restoration, just digitized. With this material now approaching 70 to 80 years old there won't be too much actual film to restore if the serials haven't been preserved at some point in the past.

CliffordWeimer · Post by **CliffordWeimer** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:12 pm

I'll ignore the snarky comment on early serials.

Nobody's mentioned VCI, which has issued a lot of DVDs with sound serials of the '30s, '40s, and '50s, many of them with contributions by me (but don't let that stop you from buying them). Quality is generally good and sometimes excellent. The Miracle Rider (1935) with Tom Mix is a really good print, f'rinstance, and VCI's The Phantom Empire (with Gene Autry) is easily the best version of this PD classic.

Tastypotpie · Post by **Tastypotpie** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:23 pm

Gary Newman wrote:
Tastypotpie wrote:Whats the chance of an American serial being released by one of the standard three companies that releases silent films? Like, Kino-Milestone-Shepard? We've had three French Feuillade's, two germans, and one Russian (Miss Mend)
Kino did release a silent serial, The Master Mystery, in its Houdini set. Really nice would be releases of Feuillade’s great Barrabas and Tih Minh.

What are the two Germans?

The Spiders (conceived as four films but only parts one and two were made)
&
The Indian Tomb.

Even though these were two parter films, I've always seen them credited as serials.

(and I mentioned The Master Mystery already

)

Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:17 pm

One problem with american serials could be that most of the silent restoration groups are in europe. If the u.s. movie isn't as marketable there, it is less incentive for them to do the restoration.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:24 pm

Nosferatu wrote:One problem with american serials could be that most of the silent restoration groups are in europe.

Are they? There's good work being done both sides of the pond.

David Denton · Post by **David Denton** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:57 pm

I know UCLA has "The Blue Fox" (Ann Little), a digest version of "the Fighting Marine" (Gene Tunney) called Fighting Blood, parts of "the Green Archer" and "Jungle Goddess" and fragments (from what I've heard, just fragments) of "Daredevil Jack".
LOC has "the Hope Diamond Mystery" (George Chesebro, Karloff), "the Crimson Stain Mystery" (M. Costello), "the Seven Pearls" (Mollie King, Creighton Hale), "the Lightning Raider" (White, Oland) and "the Red Ace" (Walcamp). I seem to recall them being complete or nearly so. They also have episodes from 'the Evil Eye" (Benny Leonard), "the New Adventures of J. Rufus Wallingford", Zudora", "Grant, Police Reporter", "the Strange Case of Mary Page","Ventures of Marguerite", "the Girl and the Game" and "the Girl Detective". They also supposedly have some of "the Great Secret" (F X Bushman) but I don't know if it's viewable.
Serials can be amazing fun, but my oh my, don't try watching one complete all at once. I doubt anyone would invest in the DVD format, but perhaps in the near future, they would be available for down load or viewing from the archives.

Bor Enots · Post by **Bor Enots** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:52 pm

I recently went through all of the Library of Congress' nitrate holdings and sent a bunch of silent serial episodes up to the lab. Preservation on many of those has been completed.....

The Girl from Frisco, Episode 11 – The Yellow Hand
Miracles of the jungle, Ep 02
Miracles of the jungle, Ep 03
Miracles of the jungle, Ep 04
Miracles of the jungle, Ep 05
Miracles of the jungle, Ep 06
Miracles of the jungle, Ep 15
Final Reckoning, A Ch. ?
Gloria's Romance, Ch. ?
Perils of Our Girl Reporters, Ch. 14: The Counterfeiters
Riders of the Plains, Ch.15: The Reckoning
Secret of the Submarine, The: Chapter 15
Spider's Web, The, Chapter 3
Lady Baffles and Detective Duck, Ch. 4: Baffles Aids Cupid

More to come.

Rob

moviepas · Post by **moviepas** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:01 am

Serial Squadron has been bemoaning the fact that if they take money from people to restore a serial, the first copy off the press will end in the hands of pirates and multiple copies not from Squadron will flood the market. This started with the possible drive if they really have got a source for rare elements of Clancy of the Mounted, and, The Jade Box. They seem to be peeved that VCI did The Phantom Empire saying theirs was superior.

But all that aside and there are too many people out there, who should know better, offering serials in minus Z quality and getting sales. Oldies/Alpha vary greatly and they seem to like to split up these serials to 2-discs than one a unit price postage for each disc in the set. Not a happy thought if you are an International customer. If they have a sale and there is a box set involved, I am not prepared to pay $2 for each disc in the set for delivery, could end up paying more post than the set costs.

As for sound serials, I still don't like the redubbed soundtracks when odd reels are missing their original audio elements are missing as on some Columbia serials. Just does not fit and is very off-putting. Little can be done, I guess to make those reels more authentic to the original sound.

In reference to Blackhawk, it is interesting about the shortened serials. Back in the Blackhawk heyday, people complained about the editorial notes added to the from of their 8mm & 16mm reels. They reckoned that they were paying for this extra footage in one way or another. I am sure that the Double Cross was found in Australia and got damaged by a Longshoremen strike on the West Coast which saw the film sitting on the docks for an extended time. reels had to be trimmed due to sticky ends as it started to go to God. Still never seen it, though. But I did have it in my local Blackhawk catalog when they issued it. I can't remember whether I sold any copies now.

CliffordWeimer · Post by **CliffordWeimer** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:22 am

No, the Squadron's Phantom Empire is most certainly inferior to the VCI release. The Squadron (really one guy, Eric Stedman) added colorized ray gun blasts and new sound effects. It's worthless and ridiculous.

Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re:

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???