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I just watched this for the first time. Quite strong stuff for it's day, eh?

I really enjoyed Theda Bara.

Yes, it is something, although really more for the fact that The Vampire triumphs in the end rather than being punished for her sins (I believe Fool is unique as the only film of Bara's where that happens).

The movie does have its faults, some of which I attribute to the rush to get the thing filmed (they couldn't have managed a better car accident, for goodness sakes?), and some of which are simply because of Bara's inexperience. But she was a quick study and, IMHO, her scenes on board the liner with her doomed lover Parmalee and her soon-to-be-doomed lover Schuyler are some of the best in the movie.

Speaking of that, my favorite scene in Fool takes place on board, when Bara, sneaking up to Edward Jose as he's gazing out at the water, drops a rose on the deck and lifts her skirts to show off her pretty little foot and ankle as he bends down to pick it up. And then, as she exits, she looks directly to the audience and gives us a sly little smile of triumph. Now, whether that was her idea or the director's, I don't know. But it always gives me a little chill when I see it.

I've always enjoyed A FOOL THERE WAS and thought that Theda Bara was actually far more restrained in her performance than many others of the era (especially Edward Jose). Jose's character is an idiot, of course, but the relationship between the strong female and weak male main characters, not unlike CARMEN from about the same time, I see as an obvious precursor to the classic film noir of the 1940s and 50s but without the criminal elements of murder or heist plots. This sort of male-female balance in films seemed to fall out of favor after WWI until during WWII, and disappeared again in the mid-1950s until the mid-1980s through the present. There's a master's thesis in there somewhere, if not a dissertation!

What I mourn about A Fool There Was is that the movie as a whole is clunky as hell, its as tedious to watch as most other 1914/1915 films for a modern viewer. But much like Birth of a Nation it manages to entrance me once I can get past this. But why I mourn it is its hard to show no0bs and expect them to 'get it'. If A Fool There was is what all silents even from 1926 were like, I wouldn't blame normies for not watching.

And its even more heart wrenching, because Theda is excellent in it. I agree with barafan, the obvious penny budget is beyond obvious (such as the scene with the maid where Theda's sleeve continually falls down.) But the boat murder scenes, the seduction scenes and the end are great. While I wouldn't call it no Sunset Blvd or City Lights, Theda is beyond competent in it...you see shades of what surely made her wonderful in the films we no longer have. Even more fun is the fact she was literally on camera from day 1 in this film, she had no time to train or practice...and she's still chops above a ton of celebs from the 10s and 20s.

May I tack on a question here that's been discussed a billion times: where is East Lynne held? Eastman? I feel very unfulfilled in not seeing it, even though I hear its God awful.

Christopher Jacobs wrote:I've always enjoyed A FOOL THERE WAS and thought that Theda Bara was actually far more restrained in her performance than many others of the era (especially Edward Jose). Jose's character is an idiot, of course, but the relationship between the strong female and weak male main characters, not unlike CARMEN from about the same time, I see as an obvious precursor to the classic film noir of the 1940s and 50s but without the criminal elements of murder or heist plots. This sort of male-female balance in films seemed to fall out of favor after WWI until during WWII, and disappeared again in the mid-1950s until the mid-1980s through the present. There's a master's thesis in there somewhere, if not a dissertation!

There seem to be certain times in society when there is, shall we say, anxiety about women that gets displaced onto this femme fatale thing. Just seeing IL FUOCO at the SF Silent festival reminds me that it wasn't just an Anglophone phenomenon--IL FUOCO is as much a vamp film as a diva film and has a lot of parallels with A FOOL THERE WAS, though it's a lot more bizarre. And, as is apparently the case with Theda's films, Pina Menichelli's characters become more conventional (or suffer conventional punishments) as the films get assimilated more to the emerging Hollywood norms.

greta

misspickford9 wrote:And its even more heart wrenching, because Theda is excellent in it. I agree with barafan, the obvious penny budget is beyond obvious (such as the scene with the maid where Theda's sleeve continually falls down.)

Theda looks thoroughly peeved in that scene, and no wonder. She's lying on a divan with her head out of the frame. She abruptly moves further down the divan about fifteen seconds in. It really does look like someone said `Move just to the right, you're out of frame', and yet it stayed in the film!

She has such a terrific screen presence that it makes me wish all the harder that more of her work survived.

misspickford9 wrote:What I mourn about A Fool There Was is that the movie as a whole is clunky as hell, its as tedious to watch as most other 1914/1915 films for a modern viewer. But much like Birth of a Nation it manages to entrance me once I can get past this.

I agree. Several times while watching it I had to ask myself -"Why am I enjoying this so much"??

misspickford9 wrote:

Where is East Lynne held? Eastmann?

Yes. So far as I know, they have the only surviving copy, but it's never been commercially released. Four (I think) short clips were used in the Timeline Films documentary The Woman With The Hungry Eyes, but that's never been released either!

And it is pretty dreary from what I've heard, a very melodramatic piece where good wife Theda runs away with another man and then, after accident and heartbreak, ends up spending the rest of her days disguised as her own childrens' nanny. The direction is full of subtle touches - when the villian tries to make Bara think her husband is cheating, the camera cuts to a literal snake in the grass (!) - and Bara's acting is in the full Delsarte mode, where clutching the chest indicates despair and wide eyes and trembling mouth indicate fear. I suspect you'd be as bored with EL as with Fool (I think I would be, too), but it would be wonderful to see the film if only to catch Theda Bara in her prime.

In one of my old Motion Picture Magazines, I have the "novelization" of East Lynne with pictures from the movie; if I can manage it, I'll scan the pages and put them up here.

Thanks Barafan (Christopher!), I don't believe any East Lynne clips are in Woman with the Hungry Eyes (though its been 2 years, I should rewatch it I might be wrong.) If they are they're brief. See what I wonder/am guessing is if one were at the Eastman house they could watch East Lynne? Someday I'll get up there.

Brooksie I agree. I am a firm believer we have lost out with so many lost Theda Bara pictures. I think when it comes to silent film, or even film in general, studies its run by men...men bent on making everything as serious and uppity as possible. I'm well aware most people in this topic are men who find her intriguing (my sister declared upon seeing the Cleopatra still that she must be very popular with the men)...but I think the so and sos who write the history write her off for just those reasons.

Not only would Louise Brooks have been written off as nothing special had she never written a word, but if her films were lost I'm sure these same fellows and snobs would declare her like they declare Theda: sexy and intriguing for the time, passe and stupid and better off lost for the modern times. Brooks only gets respect because she was around to prove how intelligent she was (and she was! I adore her.)

Theda was bright, but never really wrote or recorded many interviews to prove so. She'd been raised in the de facto studio system and unlike Brooks she respected it and played by its rule, I'd dare to say long after her career ended (like the LUX interview in the 30s.) Also frankly the 40s weren't the 70s. W.C. Fields wrote a humorous essay book on politics around that time and people were confused and it didn't sell well. Though he was popular his legend and praise didn't rise until the 70s when people 'got it'. If Theda had written in the 40s she'd probably have the same problem, as would Brooks.

To these so and sos the sex kitten is never of serious merit. Its cliche now to declare Marilyn Monroe more than a sex symbol, but just go look in the talkie screening section mentioning a retrospective on her, no replies. Go to IMDB and you'll find a ton of random conspiracy theories including a charming post about Marilyn farting in a jar and if someone still has it . Mae West has similarly never gotten her do, she's somewhere above Marilyn in respect but more forgotten.

Take the silents and you'll get it when you think how respected Valentino is for an actor, or Mary Pickford for her actual films (the only person to ever write or do a docu on her? Brownlow. There are I think 3 other bios and I've only read one. But my point is most people don't think of her up there with Chaplin. Perhaps as a Shirley Temple with business sense.) I think Theda and Rudy are left to have it the worst from the silent era, though I'm probably forgetting someone and will annoy myself later (like Marie Prevost? Failure in talkies and the dog ate her? What the hell were the last 6-8 years of her life/career then? Her voice was fine. She was just pudgy, but still charming!)

As Joan Craig pointed out, there is a reason she is so entrancing in those stills. Take a moment and think of all the gorgeous stills from all the eras we cherish. I'm a big fan of many actors and actresses, but I'd say Theda and Greta Garbo are the only two to have pure witchcraft with the still camera (Marilyn was close...but not quite.)

Maybe Theda would be like Greta if we had her films: stuck in an era and style that is now confusing, but still appreciable to people who 'get' it. However I doubt this based on what little we have of her: Theda, for all the theatrics and cartoon-y roles, and nudey costumes, still comes off quite natural in several spots. She's instantly charming. Can't say she wasn't stagey in her lost films, but I think there was a good chance we're missing out on something spectacular.

Either way no one will ever bother with it until/unless her films are rediscovered. And even then they'll write her off, she's just not highbrow enough with her tits out and 1914 creaky films.

Interesting side note: you will never convince me there's not maybe 2-3 films or film fragments of hers we aren't aware of. Of all I have been able to see (which is everything except East Lynne) it is definite that the clips in the French William Fox et Theda Bara are not...of anything we have. And those who have seen East Lynne say they aren't from that film...no one knows what their from. But the French archives aren't exactly forthcoming.

Hugh's documentary definitely has some Easy Lynne clips in it. I distinctly remember the "Snake in the grass" clip. If he can ever find a distributor for his documentary, he's going to include most of the surviving Bara films, including East Lynne.

silentfilm wrote:Hugh's documentary definitely has some Easy Lynne clips in it. I distinctly remember the "Snake in the grass" clip. If he can ever find a distributor for his documentary, he's going to include most of the surviving Bara films, including East Lynne.

Seems like this would be right up Flicker Alley's, um, alley.

I've recently picked up a disc of the poem "A Fool There Was" recited by Robert Hilliard who was the leading man in the original stage play. It's a fine ripe melodramatic reading.

FrankFay wrote:I've recently picked up a disc of the poem "A Fool There Was" recited by Robert Hilliard who was the leading man in the original stage play. It's a fine ripe melodramatic reading.

You can listen to it here at the Library of Congress's National Jukebox website. Oddly engrossing, just like the movie.

Yes- that's the one. It gives you a feeling what would have happened if they'd done in in the early talkie period. Hilliard lived until 1927 but doesn't appear to have made any film appearances.

His reading of "Christmas Day in the Workhouse" on the other side is quite gripping.

There was some discussion about the surviving Bara films a little while ago at http://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9187.

One that didn't come up - apparently Theda's first film `The Stain' (1914) was rediscovered in Australia some years ago, and was restored and screened at the 1999 Melbourne International Film Festival.

Did anyone see it, there or otherwise? None of the reviews I've been able to find online give a definite impression that the writer actually saw the film, or Theda in it. Different sources give very different information about the size and nature of her role in it. Even if it's minor, it's one more tiny piece of her work that we have.

The Stain was also screened at Cinecon about ten years ago (I didn't attend that year.) Apparently nobody could identify Theda in her bit part. Of course she didn't have the vampire persona yet, and was just made up as a plain woman.

silentfilm wrote:The Stain was also screened at Cinecon about ten years ago (I didn't attend that year.) Apparently nobody could identify Theda in her bit part. Of course she didn't have the vampire persona yet, and was just made up as a plain woman.

That would account for the fact that one source lists her role as `A Gangster's Moll' and another as `A nun'!

Well, that's a shame - I'd be interested to see how the film went over, in any case.

Brooksie wrote:There was some discussion about the surviving Bara films a little while ago at http://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9187.

One that didn't come up - apparently Theda's first film `The Stain' (1914) was rediscovered in Australia some years ago, and was restored and screened at the 1999 Melbourne International Film Festival.

Did anyone see it, there or otherwise? None of the reviews I've been able to find online give a definite impression that the writer actually saw the film, or Theda in it. Different sources give very different information about the size and nature of her role in it. Even if it's minor, it's one more tiny piece of her work that we have.

I saw The Stain when it was shown at PFA in 2000. I don't remember much about the film in general but I checked my rating from that date and see that I thought it was poor. I do remember that those of us there could not definitely identify Bara. We came up with at least two candidate characters, probably the ones you mention in your other post. I think Greta was also there; she might have clearer memories.

Derek B. wrote:

Brooksie wrote:There was some discussion about the surviving Bara films a little while ago at http://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9187.

One that didn't come up - apparently Theda's first film `The Stain' (1914) was rediscovered in Australia some years ago, and was restored and screened at the 1999 Melbourne International Film Festival.

Did anyone see it, there or otherwise? None of the reviews I've been able to find online give a definite impression that the writer actually saw the film, or Theda in it. Different sources give very different information about the size and nature of her role in it. Even if it's minor, it's one more tiny piece of her work that we have.

I saw The Stain when it was shown at PFA in 2000. I don't remember much about the film in general but I checked my rating from that date and see that I thought it was poor. I do remember that those of us there could not definitely identify Bara. We came up with at least two candidate characters, probably the ones you mention in your other post. I think Greta was also there; she might have clearer memories.

Yes, i was there and couldn't spot her either. The film also stared Edward Jose, who i think played another guy who went down the tubes for reasons that i don't remember. It was ok, but not anywhere as interesting as A Fool There Was.

greta

Well, as far as The Stain is concerned, Hugh Neely thinks Theda is a nun in the film, since - in The Woman With The Hungry Eyes clip of Stain - a little circle is used to indicate "this is Theda Bara." Whether it really is, of course, I leave to wiser heads than mine, though it certainly looks like her (especially the eyes).