Star Wars: Old Dreck!

[Spiny Norman]

True, which is why I like Star Wars, which to me has the seemingly guileless innocence of, say, The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad and is thus beyond reproach, as Kerwin Matthews as an Arabian prince is. The rest, not so much.

A bit like a cartoon you mean, or a disney movie?

[Jim Roots]

[...] As a teenager, Ingmar Bergman films were my life-line. I have all of the greatest ones on video now, and will not watch them even once. Just don't want to tamper with what they meant to me in the roughest patches of my life.

Jim

Ye gods, watch 'em watch 'em! I possess all but perhaps two or three of Bergman's films. I've never seen a Bergman that I didn't appreciate even more on a subsequent viewing (and I liked them all, to a greater or lesser degree, the first time around; well, maybe not Persona, which is too self-indulgent in my humble estimation, and I didn't like it any better on a second and third viewing; OK, come to think of it, Seventh Seal seemed not-so-good the second + time around). Every viewing brings a new richness, a new wrinkle, a new ambiguity... I share your feeling about Bergman. I watch them and think, "Thank god, someone else understood . . . "

Sheesh ... you just panned two of my three very favourite Bergman films, and you encourage me to watch 'em all again?

Jim

[odinthor]

[...] As a teenager, Ingmar Bergman films were my life-line. I have all of the greatest ones on video now, and will not watch them even once. Just don't want to tamper with what they meant to me in the roughest patches of my life.

Jim

Ye gods, watch 'em watch 'em! I possess all but perhaps two or three of Bergman's films. I've never seen a Bergman that I didn't appreciate even more on a subsequent viewing (and I liked them all, to a greater or lesser degree, the first time around; well, maybe not Persona, which is too self-indulgent in my humble estimation, and I didn't like it any better on a second and third viewing; OK, come to think of it, Seventh Seal seemed not-so-good the second + time around). Every viewing brings a new richness, a new wrinkle, a new ambiguity... I share your feeling about Bergman. I watch them and think, "Thank god, someone else understood . . . "

Sheesh ... you just panned two of my three very favourite Bergman films, and you encourage me to watch 'em all again?

Jim

Sure--watch 'em to prove me wrong!

But, let me clarify: I don't think Seventh Seal bad by any stretch of the imagination; I just meant that, as opposed to my experience of liking Bergman's films better the second etc. time[s] around, I didn't like it quite as much in the later viewings (to me, it seems a little too self-conscious; and--picky picky--there's what appears to be a scripting error at the end concerning the "fool"). With Persona--eh, I'm used to feeling a strong connection with what the characters in a Bergman film are feeling and/or going through; with Persona, I register a complete blank. Try the little-known but intriguing Fängelse (alias The Devil's Wanton alias Prison)...

[fwtep]

Jim, sorry, somehow I missed that you specifically mentioned the original trilogy in your first post.

[Jim Roots]

Jim, sorry, somehow I missed that you specifically mentioned the original trilogy in your first post.

No problem! It gave me a chance to make sure everyone knows which films I was referring to. Lucas' dumb revisionism has always made it difficult.

Jim

[Phototone]

Well, Star Wars may have been a "turning point" in movie history for Science Fiction/Fantasy films, (that particular category), but there were wonderful, timeless films (of other categories) made in the 1950's and 1960's and 1970's, in WideScreen and Color that, when restored to original brilliance stand as fresh and engaging as when they were first made. Even the silent epic "Wings" can catch and engage a modern audience. Just watch Lawrence of Arabia, Dr. Zhivago, Cabaret, and others in BluRay on your home projector on a big screen.

I'll tell you what has dated (in a bad way) is (most) Television from the 1980's.

[entredeuxguerres]

I'll tell you what has dated (in a bad way) is (most) Television from the 1980's.

If you're referring to American network productions...well, yes, of course (with maybe a handful of exceptions); it was dreck when new, & aging hasn't improved it. But the (mostly) British-made productions broadcast on PBS throughout the '80s were better BY FAR than productions for PBS over the last dozen years.

[Wm. Charles Morrow]

The special effects were impressive for the time, but what really struck me about the first Star Wars movie was how beat up everything looked. The hover-crafts, the clothes, the tableware -- it all looked scruffy and heavily used. In the sci-fi films I was familiar with the gear and weapons and costumes always looked sleek and pristine, but in Star Wars the future looked lived in. I later discovered that the “scruffy-looking future” concept had been used before by other filmmakers. Lucas may not have been much of an innovator, but he sure did some smart borrowing.

Was Star Wars a demarcation line between old and new? Well, in a sense it was the end of the New Hollywood of the early ‘70s and the start of the New New Hollywood. Before summer of ‘77, the movies most everyone talked about (even teenagers, as I was at the time) were dramas aimed at adults like Chinatown and Nashville. Oh, except for Jaws, so maybe that one was truly the beginning of the shift; although you could make a good case that Jaws was a thriller for adults, even if kids were taken to see it. At any rate, after Star Wars, while the studios continued to make movies for grown-ups they seemed to be fewer and farther between, and overshadowed by summer blockbusters aimed at the youth trade.

As for Lucas and the original trilogy, I agree with the general sentiment that the second film was far and away the best of the series. By the time the third one came along I dutifully went to see it, but found it embarrassing. It felt like one of those vogues from teen years very quickly outgrown, like the rock bands whose records you’d quietly unload at a garage sale.

P.S. By the way, Mr. Roots, thanks for starting this thread. It's not a topic I expected to see in NitrateVille, but plenty interesting.

[The Blackbird]

I find your lack of faith disturbing...

[Mind you, ROBOT CHICKEN does a great STAR WARS....]

[telical]

"12 Monkeys" is unimpeachable!

Some in here might want to check out Jan Svankmajer or the Brothers Quay.
Not saying it's always great art, but it's certainly not dreck, nor is it politically
correct mindless art cinema.

[Jim Roots]

The special effects were impressive for the time, but what really struck me about the first Star Wars movie was how beat up everything looked. The hover-crafts, the clothes, the tableware -- it all looked scruffy and heavily used. In the sci-fi films I was familiar with the gear and weapons and costumes always looked sleek and pristine, but in Star Wars the future looked lived in. I later discovered that the “scruffy-looking future” concept had been used before by other filmmakers. Lucas may not have been much of an innovator, but he sure did some smart borrowing.

I think Mike Gebert made a somewhat similar suggestion when he referred to the dinosaur bones in the desert scene. Most of the settings did look like people (or other beings) had been actually living there for eons.

Jaws was a thriller for adults, even if kids were taken to see it.

Or the other way around...

It felt like one of those vogues from teen years very quickly outgrown, like the rock bands whose records you’d quietly unload at a garage sale.

Say, aren't you the guy who put Paul Revere and the Raiders' Greatest Hits in your garage sale? Man, that was so uncool of you! I love that album!

P.S. By the way, Mr. Roots, thanks for starting this thread. It's not a topic I expected to see in NitrateVille, but plenty interesting.

Once in a blue moon I get it right!

Jim

[Wm. Charles Morrow]

It felt like one of those vogues from teen years very quickly outgrown, like the rock bands whose records you’d quietly unload at a garage sale.

Say, aren't you the guy who put Paul Revere and the Raiders' Greatest Hits in your garage sale? Man, that was so uncool of you! I love that album!

No, that wasn't me. I'm the guy who got rid of all his Monkees albums. And regretted it, later.

[entredeuxguerres]

I'm the guy who got rid of all his Monkees albums. And regretted it, later.

I'm the guy who bought them...for skeet shooting.

[Jim Roots]

It felt like one of those vogues from teen years very quickly outgrown, like the rock bands whose records you’d quietly unload at a garage sale.

Say, aren't you the guy who put Paul Revere and the Raiders' Greatest Hits in your garage sale? Man, that was so uncool of you! I love that album!

No, that wasn't me. I'm the guy who got rid of all his Monkees albums. And regretted it, later.

Psst ... I still have More of the Monkees and Monkees Headquarters. Let's talk. Or not.

Jim