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LouieD wrote:

Lokke Heiss wrote:Then you force me to guess. If you were younger than 20 then you weren't around in his prime and have exactly the issues that Richard so clearly described. If you were older than around 20, then he's truly not your cup of tea.

I disagree. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. I was not even alive when El Brendel was alive and I find him very funny. Some people to me are just not funny and Benny falls right into there, as does Phil Silvers. To me these two guys are the two most unfunny people ever. It's not about being right or wrong or you don't know what you're talking about. Humor is a very personal and selective thing.

And I like Bowers and he was way before my time. Humor can be something like 'what's your favorite color?' But generally speaking, for most people, I think age is extremely important, and not just how old you are in terms of the times and culture, it may be even more important how old you were the first time you saw a film or a comedian., I think, despite of course, individual decisions and reactions, how old you are when you get exposed to a particular comedian can make all the difference. The Marx Brothers are a great team to see when you around 10 to 20. I've shown a Marx Brothers to someone in their 30s who had never seen them and was rewarded with stunned (and bored) silence. W.C. Fields is great for kids from around 7-13. Chaplin is great to expose to kids (hey, not in that way) from around 7 to 14, Buster a little older. Of course you can enjoy these guys at other ages, but I call it the Mad Magazine effect. It's best enjoyed for the first time when you yourself look like Alred E. Newman.

Lokke Heiss wrote:And I like Bowers and he was way before my time. Humor can be something like 'what's your favorite color?' But generally speaking, for most people, I think age is extremely important, and not just how old you are in terms of the times and culture, it may be even more important how old you were the first time you saw a film or a comedian., I think, despite of course, individual decisions and reactions, how old you are when you get exposed to a particular comedian can make all the difference. The Marx Brothers are a great team to see when you around 10 to 20. I've shown a Marx Brothers to someone in their 30s who had never seen them and was rewarded with stunned (and bored) silence. W.C. Fields is great for kids from around 7-13. Chaplin is great to expose to kids (hey, not in that way) from around 7 to 14, Buster a little older. Of course you can enjoy these guys at other ages, but I call it the Mad Magazine effect. It's best enjoyed for the first time when you yourself look like Alred E. Newman.

Totally disagree. I have had completely different experiences to the ones you write about.

I'm sure many here know the tale, but in case some don't: Jack Benny was a 17-year-old playing violin in the orchestra at a vaudeville theatre near his home in Waukegan, Illinois, when the Marx Brothers came to town. They were taken with the young man and asked him to join them on the road as part of their act, but his parents wouldn't hear of it.

skyvue wrote:... his parents wouldn't hear of it.

Wise parents...though it's surprizing he was good enough at 17 to be wanted by them. Story's new to me.

LouieD wrote:

Lokke Heiss wrote:And I like Bowers and he was way before my time. Humor can be something like 'what's your favorite color?' But generally speaking, for most people, I think age is extremely important, and not just how old you are in terms of the times and culture, it may be even more important how old you were the first time you saw a film or a comedian., I think, despite of course, individual decisions and reactions, how old you are when you get exposed to a particular comedian can make all the difference. The Marx Brothers are a great team to see when you around 10 to 20. I've shown a Marx Brothers to someone in their 30s who had never seen them and was rewarded with stunned (and bored) silence. W.C. Fields is great for kids from around 7-13. Chaplin is great to expose to kids (hey, not in that way) from around 7 to 14, Buster a little older. Of course you can enjoy these guys at other ages, but I call it the Mad Magazine effect. It's best enjoyed for the first time when you yourself look like Alred E. Newman.

Totally disagree. I have had completely different experiences to the ones you write about.

Indeed. Lokke Heiss lecturing on comedy,I say no more.

Fields actually seems to appeal to different ages on different levels. The younger folk like his sight gags, but usually don't tune in on the real reprobate quaity of his gagging (unless they had tippling pappys as well). However, as one approaches middle age, the real depth and humanity of his humor really begins to hit. Fields strikes the blow for liberty for the middle aged guy in the understanding of life's failures, of being trapped and at the mercy of harridan wives and self-absorbed children, the survival of the widowed or divorced free agent living on the road, and the little victories won against the hypocrites and charlatans of society usually in some sort of power.

The Marx Brothers appeal pretty darn across the board agewise, unless one is such a tight-ass they can't deal with inspired silliness (the type who would say "That's not a real moustache' on Groucho"). Chaplin is the one I see having a hard time appealing to the kids today, except in his early violent comedies. All his later "gee, ain't I cute so watch me" flitting about doesn't grab the attention of kids raised on the MTV edit and the five-second sound bite like it used to in his day. Keaton amazes at any age, I became a fan when I was five.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

The Studio City Neighborhood Council just celebrated the 85th anniversary of Mack Sennett's studio opening, and we played three Sennett shorts, including THE DENTIST. That went over like gangbusters with the standing room only crowd, that averaged in the 40s, but had people up into the 80s.

LouieD wrote:

Lokke Heiss wrote:And I like Bowers and he was way before my time. Humor can be something like 'what's your favorite color?' But generally speaking, for most people, I think age is extremely important, and not just how old you are in terms of the times and culture, it may be even more important how old you were the first time you saw a film or a comedian., I think, despite of course, individual decisions and reactions, how old you are when you get exposed to a particular comedian can make all the difference. The Marx Brothers are a great team to see when you around 10 to 20. I've shown a Marx Brothers to someone in their 30s who had never seen them and was rewarded with stunned (and bored) silence. W.C. Fields is great for kids from around 7-13. Chaplin is great to expose to kids (hey, not in that way) from around 7 to 14, Buster a little older. Of course you can enjoy these guys at other ages, but I call it the Mad Magazine effect. It's best enjoyed for the first time when you yourself look like Alred E. Newman.

Totally disagree. I have had completely different experiences to the ones you write about.

Then we'll just agree to disagree.

Richard, if I'm lecturing, then I'm lecturing about personal experience of introducing these comediens to others. Like I said, I've tried to expose people over 25 or so (who importantly have never seen them before) to, for example, the Marx Brothers and had zero luck. I hope you've had better success.

Lokke Heiss wrote:

Richard, if I'm lecturing, then I'm lecturing about personal experience of introducing these comediens to others. Like I said, I've tried to expose people over 25 or so (who importantly have never seen them before) to, for example, the Marx Brothers and had zero luck. I hope you've had better success.

I do allright, perhaps I hang out with fewer tight-asses.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Richard M Roberts wrote:

Lokke Heiss wrote:

Richard, if I'm lecturing, then I'm lecturing about personal experience of introducing these comediens to others. Like I said, I've tried to expose people over 25 or so (who importantly have never seen them before) to, for example, the Marx Brothers and had zero luck. I hope you've had better success.

I do allright, perhaps I hang out with fewer tight-asses.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Yes, indeed you may be right. By the way, I really enjoyed your stint on The Commentary Track; it was terrific, you've forgotten more about this era than I'll ever hope to remember, and I hope you get invited back there soon.

Lokke Heiss wrote:

Richard M Roberts wrote:

Lokke Heiss wrote:

Richard, if I'm lecturing, then I'm lecturing about personal experience of introducing these comediens to others. Like I said, I've tried to expose people over 25 or so (who importantly have never seen them before) to, for example, the Marx Brothers and had zero luck. I hope you've had better success.

I do allright, perhaps I hang out with fewer tight-asses.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Yes, indeed you may be right. By the way, I really enjoyed your stint on The Commentary Track; it was terrific, you've forgotten more about this era than I'll ever hope to remember, and I hope you get invited back there soon.

Thats it, try and butter me up........

But I will give anyone credit who tries to interest the Younger Generation in that old black and white stuff, it is really much more difficult than it used to be. Our Generations seemed to have been primed for it, and it got it's well-deserved second shot at life. Whos to say it really deserves yet another, but I haven't seen anything of recent vintage that comes close to it.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

JFK wrote:Could it be that the humor of Fields, West, and the Marx Brothers shared an amazing revival in the 1960s, (soon followed by the arrival of Brooks and Allen) because few (save the insult comics) had been doing that sort of rude anarchic humor for years?
Could a bored reaction by some modern day audiences, upon being introduced to the old masters, be due, in part, to the fact that the prevalent form of comedy of the past four decades has been an infantilized repetition of the past classics? For instance, Horse Feathers (adult characters satirizing the education system) might seem old hat to those who’d first seen Animal House or Revenge of the Nerds (over-age student characters satirizing the education system).
Likewise, consider the then-innovative Jack Benny radio show of the 1940s, among the first of the "show-biz-behind-the-scenes" sitcoms, an expertly cast and written “show about nothing” (e.g. Jack goes Xmas shopping, Jack takes a violin lesson…).
It may be difficult to approach Benny with fresh eyes if you’ve first seen derivatuve series by Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, Candy Bergen, Seinfeld, Shandling, and Larry David.
The silent comedy screenings I've attended have always gone over well with audiences of all ages, perhaps in part because the style of humor seems fresh in comparison to the current fare.

I was fortunate to experience Laurel and Hardy, Benny, the Brothers Marx, Fields, etc. when I was very young. I even faked illness to see all the available Paramount Marx films. Those comics were part and parcel of our jokes from kindergarten up through junior high (along with Mad Magazine, Firesign Theater, Richard Pryor, etc.). Others like the acerbic Fred Allen I discovered later (sometimes much later).

I do remember Jack's death, but I didn't watch the funeral. The JFK, RFK, MLK services soured me on public services.

mndean wrote:I was fortunate to experience Laurel and Hardy, Benny, the Brothers Marx, Fields, etc. when I was very young. I even faked illness to see all the available Paramount Marx films.

Your post stirs an unhappy childhood memory for me. When I was in grade school, there was a day when I woke up feeling ill, and told my mom I thought I was coming down with something. She felt my forehead and said that it did seem rather warm, so perhaps I should stay home. Then she happened to look at the paper, and noticed that Monkey Business would be on TV that day. (I was aware of that, but really did feel sick.) Mom figured I was faking it, and ordered me to go to school, so off to school I went. And they sent me home mid-day, with a temperature of 102. By then, the movie was over.

Oh well. I have the box set now.

Getting back to the Marx Bros./Jack Benny connection: Benny tells the story of how he met the brothers in vaudeville days, when he was a teenager playing the fiddle in a pit orchestra in Waukegan, in Richard Anobile’s interview compendium The Marx Brothers Scrapbook. He also mentions meeting up with them again later on, when he’d become a comedian himself, and they traveled the same circuit together. He adds: “But we weren’t very close. In fact, I never knew whether I liked them or not. I was always a little afraid of them.”

Milt Josefsberg, one of Benny’s writers for his radio show, wrote an interesting book about the experience. He said that, while Benny and Groucho respected each other as professionals, they weren’t pals. On one occasion, during WW2, Groucho appeared as a guest on Benny’s show, and during a rehearsal made a tasteless joke about the war. No one laughed, and Josefberg said that Benny was leery of Groucho’s inclination to treat everything as joke fodder. Needless to add, the two men had very different styles.

Wm. Charles Morrow wrote: Your post stirs an unhappy childhood memory for me. When I was in grade school, there was a day when I woke up feeling ill, and told my mom I thought I was coming down with something. She felt my forehead and said that it did seem rather warm, so perhaps I should stay home. Then she happened to look at the paper, and noticed that Monkey Business would be on TV that day. (I was aware of that, but really did feel sick.) Mom figured I was faking it, and ordered me to go to school, so off to school I went. And they sent me home mid-day, with a temperature of 102.

Hah! I have that one beat. My uncle took us on a summer picnic about 40 years ago and I was very much against going as I felt I was coming down with something. My father overruled me and my mother, which was unusual for him. While on this picnic, I had to hike trails and I was sure something was wrong. I was lightheaded the rest of the day and by the time my uncle and aunt deigned to drive us all home late in the afternoon, I had a high fever and threw up on practically everyone in the car. Except my mother. Which may mean that karma exists.