Odd Vitaphone-disc from Metroplitan (1935)

[coolcatdaddy]

Up on ebay right now is an oddity I can't quite figure out.

It's a 16" Vitaphone-type disc with a United Artists label and pressed by Columbia. From the description, it seems to contain multiple takes of a scene from the 1935 film "Metropolitan". According to the seller, the disc contains the director talking with Alice Brady in multiple takes of the song and referring to her by her real name, not the name of the character she plays in the film. The photos show that there are multiple bands on the disc for each take.

In the area around the label, the following is inscribed: "Prod: 1300 "METROPOLITAN" ALICE BRADY
SINGING GYPSY LOVE SONG from CARMEN 567-568-569 Wax No. 1338".

This wouldn't seem to have been produced for exhibition of the finished film, so I'm wondering how it was used. If they were doing playback on the set for filming a scene and recording the sound on film, wouldn't it have been simpler to do playback from a film element?

[CoffeeDan]

A disc like this was recorded on the set while filming a scene, so the director and technical crew could hear the performance immediately and adjust bass, treble, and levels as necessary and/or retake the scene. They couldn't use the film element because the film had to be developed first, which was impractical. Recording the scene on disc while the scene was being filmed was far more efficient, the playback gave immediate results, and also helped the director and editor select the best takes for each scene.

[coolcatdaddy]

I don't quite understand that. This is a pressed disc.

They would have had to send the wax master to Columbia and they would make a metal plate mother and then pressed the disc in shellac. So why would they bother pressing it up? It would take, at a minimum, a couple of days to do this.

The only reason I could think of would be as some kind of technical test or to use the 16" disc for playback during filming a musical scene. But, again, it would make more sense to use a sound on film element for playback during filming.

[CoffeeDan]

First of all, check your preconceptions at the door. They'll only confuse you. I'll break this down further:

This is a recordable transcription disc, made of acetate or vinylite, softer record materials that facilitated recording but are also less permanent. It's the 1930s equivalent of a CD-R, only it's analog and doesn't require finalizing.

The grooves were cut in the disc by the recording head of the transcription machine. When the recording was finished, the recording head was removed and a playback head was inserted so you could play the recording. These transcriptions were recorded on the movie set so the cast and crew could immediately hear the results of the completed takes. It was not possible to look at the undeveloped film until it was sent to the lab at the end of the day. Listening to the transcription discs, the director, editor, and sound engineer could decide right on the spot if an additional take was required, and which takes they wanted to develop as "dailies" when filming was completed.

This is still done today, only video has replaced the transcription discs. Scenes are shot on both film and video, and the video copy is used to evaluate each scene and select the ones to be developed later.

[coolcatdaddy]

No, sorry - I collect radio transcriptions and know a lacquer or other type of instantaneous disc when I see one.

Look at the photos - it's pressed. You can see the ring indention around the center hole, common to Columbia transcription pressings of this period.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transcription-A ... 0978939155

Coated lacquer instantaneous discs weren't introduced to the marketplace in the Fall of 1934 by Presto. The labels on a lacquer would be flat, pasted on the disc, and wouldn't have this ring indentation.

I've got two original master plates from Western Electric used to press a 16" disc containing two episodes of "The Air Adventures of Jimmy Allen", dating from around 1936 or '37. I believe in the manufacturing process they welded a grommet to the pressing plate with the center hole or it was built into the pressing machine. On my plates, that area is open, making a center hole the size of the indentation seen on the "Metropolitan" disc.

I've got several pressed Columbia 16" transcriptions of radio programs, dating from around 1929 through 1936 and all have this indentation around the center hole.

[Jack Theakston]

Likely an on-set playback disc for lip-sync purposes (hence the multiple takes). The awkward sound-on-disc label was probably a template made for UA's theatrical releases, and stuck on there because it had their name on it.

If they were doing playback on the set for filming a scene and recording the sound on film, wouldn't it have been simpler to do playback from a film element?

It would have been simpler to do disc playback, and in fact, the earliest I know of a sound-on-film playback was THE JOLSON STORY because Larry Parks' multiple takes were wearing out the discs on the first few days shoots.