I grew up in the 1970's before even the advent of common VCRs. You saw the program when it was on, or you missed it until a network decided to air it again. Nowadays, nearly everyone uses the DVR. But I had a recent experience that makes me wonder if the DVR capability actually reduces the viewing experience. I had never seen Sudden Fear. A buddy of mine texted me before I left work one day that Sudden Fear would be on TCM that night at 8:00. We agreed to watch it and text as we watched to discuss. So, I needed to arrange my chores/tasks that evening to have them all done by 8:00, so that I could be in the front of the TV when the movie started. And to also have my snack and drink ready. And I did not make use of the Pause button, either; when I went to the kitchen for a drink refill I kept listening and hurried back to the TV. I found this "live" experience so much more fun that if I had DVRed the movie and watched it whenever. And about a year ago when TCM premiered Why Be Good, I had the same exciting experience watching it "live".
I also find that when I DVR a movie, if I don't watch it in a day or two, it likely will never be watched. Going through the TCM guide is like looking at all of the wonderful desserts available, but in the end my "eyes are bigger than my belly", as my grandparents used to like to say. Once it is in the DVR queue, the excitement subsides a bit
Has anyone else had this experience?
Matthew
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:25 pm
by silentfilm
Not for me. I've got a busy family life, two teenage boys, two dogs and lots of distractions. While I do have a couple of TCM movies on my DVR that are a couple of months old, I usually watch things I record within a week. It is better to watch them when you can be uninterrupted, rather than trying to fit a late-night movie into my schedule.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:10 am
by smokey15
It seems like so many of the films TCM shows that I personally like are aired in the wee hours of the morning. I certainly can't stay up so I'd rather record the films and enjoy them at a later hour.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:18 am
by boblipton
There's little doubt in my mind that sitting at home, watching a DVR by yourself on your home screen and cross-tweeting the experience with someone else is a different experience from getting dressed, going to a theater an sitting with several hundred other people who experience the same movie without conversation.
Bob
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:45 am
by todmichel
I grew up in the Fifties, in Paris, so I was lucky enough to watch movies on the big screen from 1952 to the early 1980s. I only got my first television set at 42 (!) and my first VCR at 43.
But for me, in spite of the fact that I saw any movie (from the silents to the "current" ones of the 1980s) on the big screen, I enjoy the fact to be able to watch anything on DVD these days, including many foreign titles from a lot of countries, that never got a French release.
However, I always watch a movie on TV just as I watched them in a theater. I never drink or eat when I watch a film, I always disconnect my phone, I certainly don't text or speak (anyway, I live alone). So, the experience isn't so different than in a theater.
So, it's not the video that "spoils the experience", but the way somebody watches a movie, probably.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:27 am
by earlytalkiebuffRob
I wouldn't dream of texting whilst watching a movie (unless in exceptional circumstances), although I might freeze it to make a brief note. I remember a friend texting repeatedly during my watching of SWEETIE (1929), which was more or less buggered up as I finished watching at some unearthly hour. Usually my phone's turned off by this time. Yes to a drink and maybe a few nibbles, and a definite 'yes' to my cat's 'Dreamies'. Aside from that, just the film, a nice fire and my moggy.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:39 am
by Donald Binks
I watch pictures at home via a DVD because going to the cinema these days is a nightmare of an experience. Where once one could enjoy the orchestra or the organ beforehand, one now has to sit through ads, trailers and patrons running around being noisy. Then when the picture starts, the 'phones come out and one is disturbed by little lights going on whilst the morons are "texting", that and the constant loud talking, slurping on drinks, munching popcorn - the smell of which makes me bilious....
....I am at home in peace and quiet, concentrating on the picture and occasionally dipping my hand into a box of chocolates. Bliss!
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:08 am
by Marr&Colton
I agree the theatre experience isn't worth the time and money. In my movie life, I have weekly movie gatherings of about 10 friends in my home "Palace Theatre" with large screen, lobby with popcorn machine, theatre seats and professional quality digital projection and sound.
We always have a shorts program before the feature picture consisting of old newsreels, trailers, cartoon, comedy and a serial chapter. We also run Blu-Ray for the HD experience and in the intimacy of a 16 seat dedicated theatre space, it's the best of all worlds, since I reject the mostly trash made by Hollywood after 1959.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:55 am
by earlytalkiebuffRob
Donald Binks wrote:I watch pictures at home via a DVD because going to the cinema these days is a nightmare of an experience. Where once one could enjoy the orchestra or the organ beforehand, one now has to sit through ads, trailers and patrons running around being noisy. Then when the picture starts, the 'phones come out and one is disturbed by little lights going on whilst the morons are "texting", that and the constant loud talking, slurping on drinks, munching popcorn - the smell of which makes me bilious....
....I am at home in peace and quiet, concentrating on the picture and occasionally dipping my hand into a box of chocolates. Bliss!
And of course there are now fewer places to watch films - if they show them correctly. There used to be a cinema (the Southsea Odeon) five minutes walk from me. Now if I want to go out to a film, I have to walk home to feed the cat, then a long tramp there and back of at least an hour each way. Admittedly the King's Theatre is closer, but the only times I've been the presentation has not been satisfactory, and older films shown tend to be the 'safe' ones. After a day at work, no thank you!
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:23 am
by Mitch Farish
It doesn't spoil the experience any more that home video does. I like having films available when I want to watch them again. I like getting to know them intimately, seeing things I may have missed the first time.
All of the movies I have recorded from TCM aren't on home video, and are rarely (sometimes very rarely) shown on TCM. The odds aren't likely to improve with more and more movies from the '70s and '80 crowding in. You can forget about finding them on a streaming service! And just about all the films I have on DVR are films that I would buy on blu-ray if I could. Picture clarity and not having compression artifacts is a big incentive to buy physical media, not to mention the commentaries and extras. At some point I would like to see the Doug Fairbanks features THE GOOD BAD MAN and THE HALFBREED come out on disc; but until they do, I still have my own copies.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:10 am
by Danny Burk
Back to the original question....not at all. I'd probably never see anything if I had to watch it at the actual time of airing.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:23 am
by Richard P. May
Almost all of our watching of movies at home are from recordings. We use either DVR or recordable DVDs (for portability, to be able to run in a different room). TVs are a 42 in. in the den, and 50 in. in a former bedroom, now almost exclusively a TV room, with 5.1 sound.
Commercial theaters: almost never. Other theater: I happily have access to the Academy's Samuel Goldwyn Theater, which is as good as you can get, both technical quality and professional audience. On average, maybe a couple of pictures a month there. Everything else usually at home.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:55 am
by Claus Harding
We don't currently have recording capability or cable (waiting for Criterion/TCM streaming) so for me, the question is more regarding viewing habits and such.
When I watch, I WATCH feature films in one go, apart from Nature's calls if needed. There is a reason we have a Panasonic 58-inch plasma and sourround sound in the living room, and that is to at least emulate a small theatre experience within feasibility.
Once I have seen a film once or twice, then a re-visit of certain scenes is always educational and fun, but a "viewing" is a "viewing"....my wife may think me cranky in that I find the film more important than a phone call that the answering machine can pick up until we are done, but so be it.
Much as with someone who has recordings sitting around, a number of great films on BR is stacking up on our shelf, and that's ok. I am in no rush. I don't feel I won't watch them just because they are "there", but some works (like the Apu Triology) just demand a certain time and a certain mood.
I would love to go to the Uptown Theatre here in DC, with its curved screen and old-style ambience, but fact remains that I haven't set foot in the place since it went digital. The memories of 70-mm screenings and the paucity of new quality films have kept me away, without even thinking much about it.
Claus.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:32 pm
by David Alp
mwalls wrote:I grew up in the 1970's before even the advent of common VCRs. You saw the program when it was on, or you missed it until a network decided to air it again. Nowadays, nearly everyone uses the DVR. But I had a recent experience that makes me wonder if the DVR capability actually reduces the viewing experience. I had never seen Sudden Fear. A buddy of mine texted me before I left work one day that Sudden Fear would be on TCM that night at 8:00. We agreed to watch it and text as we watched to discuss. So, I needed to arrange my chores/tasks that evening to have them all done by 8:00, so that I could be in the front of the TV when the movie started. And to also have my snack and drink ready. And I did not make use of the Pause button, either; when I went to the kitchen for a drink refill I kept listening and hurried back to the TV. I found this "live" experience so much more fun that if I had DVRed the movie and watched it whenever. And about a year ago when TCM premiered Why Be Good, I had the same exciting experience watching it "live".
I also find that when I DVR a movie, if I don't watch it in a day or two, it likely will never be watched. Going through the TCM guide is like looking at all of the wonderful desserts available, but in the end my "eyes are bigger than my belly", as my grandparents used to like to say. Once it is in the DVR queue, the excitement subsides a bit
Has anyone else had this experience?
Matthew
Yes I know exactly what you mean Matthew. I think we need to re-read what the original poster has said because people are going off on tangents. The O/P doesn't mean DVD, but DVR. i.e recorded to the hard-drive of the Sky-Box, Digi-Box, Vision-Box, (or whatever) ready to be watched. And these days - with greater storage capacity you can store several pages of movies in HD, and keep them there indefinitely. In fact my last DVR (which went wrong, and I needed a new one) I refused to mail back the old DVR box to the company because it had about 70 HD films on it, which I could still watch. I'd been collecting them for 2 years, and like hell was I sending it back to them!
But yes; I also grew up in the 70's where I had a little portable TV next to my bed; and every Friday night around about midnight, there would be an old movie shown on BBC2. I remember watching "The Old Dark House" one night when I was about 12, and being fascinated by it, and just GLUED to the set! My eyes were about six inches away from the screen! I would be in pitch darkness. And the volume would have to be turned way down low, so my parents could not hear I was watching it so late -- otherwise they would come in and turn it off, and unplug it.
But back then, there was definitely an immediacy to watching these films live, (which is now totally lost), because they were broadcast just the once! You could not pause them. You could not rewind them. There were no commercials on BBC2, so I couldn't even run off to the bathroom. I could not miss a second! Even if I didn't quite catch what they were saying during a scene, I could not rewind, then bring up the subtitles, and then play the scene again. In fact there were no subtitles back then. There was none of that, so you knew you had to LISTEN and be vigilant and be alert and listen, and watch, because the 90 minutes would be over in a flash!
And then at the end you'd think: "Wow, that was good! Wonder when it will be on again? Probably in 3 years? I must scan the newspapers for it, and make a mental note in my head of the title!"..
I had the same experience for "The Hounds Of Zaroff" (1932). Also when I was about 12 or 13. In fact I still vividly remember the scene of Joel McRea and Fay Wray running like mad - with the camera tracking backwards - following them, and keeping them in full shot for the entire take as they were chased by hounds. Oh I was terrified, but I was really impressed.
(Years and years and years later I still had this image in my head, but could not find the movie? I thought it wasn't out on DVD or Blu-ray yet? So I just put it down to one of those things. Then I must have seen a documentary or something (?) And I discovered the title had been changed to "The Most Dangerous Game" and I was almost taken aback to find out that it was available on blu-ray -- and also had a cult following! I thought to myself that my taste wasn't so bad after all.)
The "Big One" was the annual Christmas showing in the UK of "The Wizard of Oz". I must have been about 5 when i first saw it, and I just loved it! Of course, once again, no VCR's, no way of recording it. So you'd wait for the cyclone, and once it was gone, you knew you had to wait a whole year to see it again, then the Munchkins and the Wicked Witch of The West, and again, once they were gone, they were gone -- you had to wait a WHOLE more year to see those scenes again! I vividly remember one scene in the film where the Wicked Witch says to Dorothy, "Ha ha ha ha.. Nearly there??? Why you've ONLY JUST BEGUN!!!!!" (or words to that effect), and I always remember thinking to myself, "GOOD, I'm SO glad they've only just begun, because i don't want this to end..."
I most definitely think that this is one thing that we are missing today, and that we have all actually forgotten about it, in our "Instant-Movie" world climate of today.
(Having said all of that, I would not give up my blu-ray / DVD collection for anything, nor my DVR collection, Nor my DVD-R collection... Actually, come to think of it -- not even my VHS collection).
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:45 am
by Arndt
David Alp wrote:But yes; I also grew up in the 70's where I had a little portable TV next to my bed; and every Friday night around about midnight, there would be an old movie shown on BBC2. [...] My eyes were about six inches away from the screen! I would be in pitch darkness. And the volume would have to be turned way down low, so my parents could not hear I was watching it so late -- otherwise they would come in and turn it off, and unplug it.
II had pretty much the same experience across the Channel in Germany around the same time. I had saved up birthdays and Christmases to buy the cheapest portable black and white TV set. I distinctly remember watching the first two Frankenstein movies and being mesmerised.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:10 am
by westegg
As a kid there was something momentous to be allowed to view (usually on a weekend, or during summer) a 1 a.m. showing of SON OF FRANKENSTEIN or MAN OF A THOUSAND FACES. Usually I had an impromptu bed on a sofa ahead of time, and then I'd nod off after the movie. But I finally saw such movies! I would also patiently await the annual showing of Laurel & Hardy's BABES IN TOYLAND on Thanksgiving, knowing full well the fleeting nature of such an airing. I actually bought an LP (remember them?) of the full soundtrack to fill in the intervening months.
Yes, the "live" nature of those times were responsible for so many memorable viewings back then.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:24 am
by Donald Binks
In Melbourne (Oz) on Channel 9 back in the 1960's there was a guy called Hal Todd who used to do the Late Night Show on the weekend. Hal was an announcer from the days of the wireless and had a rather stentorian voice for such a diminutive fellow. He never really made a successful transition to television and thus was "dumped" on to this Late Night Show which would start around midnight and was also, ostensibly a fore-runner to the "advertorial" programmes of today.
The feature of the show was the playing of old pictures interrupted every half hour or so by Hal Todd doing the advertising breaks. He got around the then strict time limits on advertising per hour, by having someone from the company he was advertising come on air with him as he did an "interview". These breaks would go on sometimes for about 20 minutes. It got to the point that by the time the picture came back on, you'd forgotten what had happened in the part you last saw.
Also, because the films would be coming on quite late, it would be quite common to doze off during one of the interminable breaks and wake up sometime well into the next picture. A befuddlement would then occur as you scratched your head and wondered what Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi were doing in a picture with Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire.
Ah, yes, the good old days of television before we could record!
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:23 am
by odinthor
David Alp wrote: Yes I know exactly what you mean Matthew. [...and much more, well-pondered and well-expressed...]
Thank you, David, for a splendid post!
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:16 am
by Robert Moulton
I second all the comments above, especially about being about twelve, sneaking downstairs to watch a film at 2am, and praying that my parents don't become aware of this and send me back to bed. Because I just know that this will be the only time in my life I will ever be able to see Everything's Rosie. And of course in the days leading up to the film I'd methodically read all the related information I had on the film in question.
I assume that going thru this crazy effort to see a film, and the anticipation, was part of what got me hooked.
I don't know if DVRing spoils the experience but it is definitely a different experience. I think I'm going to try watching a film without allowing myself to pause, rewind, or do anything else to it.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:07 pm
by earlytalkiebuffRob
One thing I do not miss is the fact that the BBC ran very long films (apart from the Russian WAR AND PEACE) without the breaks which were built into them. And their showing of double-bills without a brief interval would usually mean missing vital footage or watching the film in discomfort unless there was a convenient aspidistra...
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:38 pm
by wich2
>I never drink or eat when I watch a film<
>when the picture starts ... slurping on drinks, munching popcorn<
Todmichel and Sir Donald, were refreshments not a part of moviegoing in France and Australia in the past?
-Craig
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:19 pm
by Donald Binks
wich2 wrote:... Donald, were refreshments not a part of moviegoing in France and Australia in the past?
-Craig
In Oz in the civilised days of going to the pictures, drinks were not allowed in the auditorium and nibbles consisted of a box of chocolates presented to the girl one was courting. At interval a young chap called a "lolly boy" would parade down the aisles wearing a big open box around his neck full of little round ice-cream containers and boxes of sweets. I can remember that in the dress circle, an order would be verbally passed up a row of seats along with the money and that one's order would then be passed back down together with one's change. Either that or an orderly queue would form. The ice-creams were called "Dixies" and one scooped out the contents with a little wooden spoon which was usually attached to the lid.
Warm memories came back as I recounted the above. Going to the big city cinemas in the company of two or three thousand others in the large "picture palaces" was a most enjoyable experience. On Friday and Saturday nights everyone dressed - not formally, but a man wouldn't be seen without a collar and tie. People were friendly, softly spoken and considerate to others. Thus the experience is a marked contrast to today where one has to take one's pictures in a "complex" with an auditorium the size of a shoe box and put up with raucous and inconsiderate behaviour. People now take "refreshments" in oversized containers. I have been astonished at the size of the containers that are filled to the brim with that awful popcorn.
DVD's are such a blessing!
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:06 pm
by Daniel Eagan
boblipton wrote:There's little doubt in my mind that sitting at home, watching a DVR by yourself on your home screen and cross-tweeting the experience with someone else is a different experience from getting dressed, going to a theater an sitting with several hundred other people who experience the same movie without conversation.
Bob
Live tweeting while watching a movie: you can't do either one well.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:22 pm
by Donald Binks
Daniel Eagan wrote:...
Live tweeting while watching a movie: you can't do either one well.
I wish we could go back to the state of affairs when only birds were responsible for tweeting!
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:47 pm
by Donald Binks
In the Binks Lexicon this is what is considered proper pre-main picture entertainment!
(The clip is from the re-make of "The Front Page" with Jack Lemmon and Walter Matheau. From what I can gather the film is set in 1929-30 as the Newsreel is copyright 1929 and so the version of "The Phantom of the Opera" depicted on the marquee must have been the sound re-issue).
Back in the nontoon sibeenties when I was showing home movies in Super 8 in a little cinema I constructed, I made a model of a cinema organ with a man at it "playing away". This I would raise and lower via a pully system as I played a gramophone record of organ music. Why the "organist" even had a spotlight on him! These are the silly things one does when one is one's twenties, however this little bit of foolishness was appreciated by my patrons. If I dig around in my archives I daresay might be able to find a photo....
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:50 pm
by Donald Binks
Donald Binks wrote:In the Binks Lexicon this is what is considered proper pre-main picture entertainment!
(The clip is from the re-make of "The Front Page" with Jack Lemmon and Walter Matheau. From what I can gather the film is set in 1929-30 as the Newsreel is copyright 1929 and so the version of "The Phantom of the Opera" depicted on the marquee must have been the sound re-issue).
Back in the nontoon sibeenties when I was showing home movies in Super 8 in a little cinema I constructed, I made a model of a cinema organ with a man at it "playing away". This I would raise and lower via a pully system as I played a gramophone record of organ music. Why the "organist" even had a spotlight on him! These are the silly things one does when one is one's twenties, however this little bit of foolishness was appreciated by my patrons. If I dig around in my archives I daresay might be able to find a photo....
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:10 pm
by Big Silent Fan
Danny Burk wrote:Back to the original question....not at all. I'd probably never see anything if I had to watch it at the actual time of airing.
"Time Shifting," which is how all video recording was once described has had an effect on us all. When we watched live programing, our life was scheduled to conform and if we went to the theatre, it was the same thing. The same for watching actual film or home movies...you watched from beginning to end.
It's easy to talk about the short attention span of youth today, but because of these modern conveniences, most of us no long are capable of watching anything in one sitting.
With the advent of the DVR, I've known people who've programed them to 100% capacity before they finally sat down to watch something. Remember when Nick Wallenda walked across 'Niagara Falls'? I had a friend who was unable to see it because his cable provider lost the signal. When I heard how upset he was, I immediately sent him a DVD copy, commercial free.
A couple months later, I asked if he'd watched (after all it was only about 35 minutes long)? His answer, "I've got too many other things that I need to watch first." I wondered why I bothered to help him?
A lot of folk are like that, spending more time collecting than watching.
Where I live, it's impossible to find anyone interested in viewing a film together because they seldom watch anything for more than a few minutes before loosing interest. They plan to return later but seldom do.
All time shifting is great for when the phone rings or other unexpected interruptions, but most today (including myself sometimes) will also stop watching and return to finish at a later time.
It's so much different from the weekly "Sunday Night" movie that was on from 9 to 11 PM each week. That was true family entertainment, with everyone sitting together in front of the TV.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:34 pm
by earlytalkiebuffRob
Donald Binks wrote:
Donald Binks wrote:In the Binks Lexicon this is what is considered proper pre-main picture entertainment!
(The clip is from the re-make of "The Front Page" with Jack Lemmon and Walter Matheau. From what I can gather the film is set in 1929-30 as the Newsreel is copyright 1929 and so the version of "The Phantom of the Opera" depicted on the marquee must have been the sound re-issue).
Back in the nontoon sibeenties when I was showing home movies in Super 8 in a little cinema I constructed, I made a model of a cinema organ with a man at it "playing away". This I would raise and lower via a pully system as I played a gramophone record of organ music. Why the "organist" even had a spotlight on him! These are the silly things one does when one is one's twenties, however this little bit of foolishness was appreciated by my patrons. If I dig around in my archives I daresay might be able to find a photo....
I seem to recall a sighting for the poster for ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT in one scene (perhaps a nod to the director of the 1931 version) in Wilder's film, which would presumably set it in 1930 or 1931.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:55 pm
by ClayKing
Why would watching a program while it airs be any different than watching it from a DVR recording? Or DVD or Blu-ray, for that matter? A DVR gives you the option to watch a movie that you ordinarily might not be able to catch because of its air time or other reasons. There's no obligation to watch the DVR'd show. If you decide you don't want to watch it, erase it. I DVR the several weekly TV series I follow because I can fast-forward through the commercial breaks. The DVR
also gives you the option to watch a movie in two or three sessions, which is certainly no worse than watching a film and simultaneously texting about it.
Re: Does DVR Capability Spoil the Experience?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:08 pm
by greta de groat
I completely understand--when you had to schedule yourself to catch a live broadcast, you darned well better pay attention because you didn't know if you'd see it again, and there was a certain excitement and anticipation involved. Once you can watch it anytime, the urgency is gone and it's easier to get distracted by other things. I love it that i can watch lots of things i thought i'd never see at any time i want, but because i can do it any time, i let them slide until i have nothing else i have to do (like right now when i'm home sick, i'm about to watch The Glorious Lady)
