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boblipton wrote:Does anyone but me like the Roy Rogers movies?

Bob

I've only seen a couple of Roy Rogers films -- I have 16mm prints of two of them. As a general rule, I don't like B-westerns, especially singing cowboys. However, some of the B-westerns, especially Tom Mix films that they have shown recently at Cinecon, were great. And I love the 1950s Randolph Scott westerns, but that's another era.

The Bells of Rosarita (1945) does have some good parts because it is a "film within a film" and it features the Bob Mitchell Boys choir. But the villian of the film is a buffoon that belongs in a Three Stooges movie. There is absolutely no suspense at all in the film. It features cameos from several other Republic cowboy stars, but the cameos only last a few seconds. This one is definitely just for kids.

On the other hand, The Man From Cheyenne (1942) is a much darker film. It was filmed in late 1941, and I'm sure that the looming war influenced it. The villian is a lady rancher who has all of the cowboys fooled as to her true personality. She really runs a cattle rustling operation. The climax of the film is pretty standard fare as Roy Rogers holds off a bunch of baddies from a small shack. It's a film that adults and kids can enjoy.

Well, I brought up Roy Rogers in the 'B Films' thread because everyone was busy praising all sorts of items. But the Roy Rogers films, while not 'classics' in any sense of the word are for me, very solid entertainment: good acting, good jokes, real stories, good songs and the camerawork is first rate and not at all the conservative techniques that dominated the B Westerns.

Bob

There are different groups of Rogers pictures, and one's reaction to him often depends upon which pictures one has seen.

The earliest group (1938-41) was marketed by Republic as "Historical" Westerns and, for the most part, is comprised of period pictures featuring real-life characters: BILLY THE KID RETURNS, DAYS OF JESSE JAMES, YOUNG BILL HICKOK, YOUNG BUFFALO BILL, etc. These tend to be straight action pictures with just a few songs -- two or three at most -- scattered throughout.

The 1941-42 group reunited Roy with the Sons of the Pioneers. Most of these take place in present day, with Roy playing himself and occasionally being depicted as a radio star or movie actor. They were made on modest budgets and increased the number of musical interludes.

In 1942 Gene Autry went into the armed forces, and Republic began promoting Roy as "the King of the Cowboys." In order to ease his pictures out of the Saturday-matinee category and secure better playdates at bigger theaters, the studio upped the budgets, downplayed the typical horse-opera cliches, and started hiring decidedly non-Western leading ladies and character actors: John Carradine, Jerome Cowan, Peggy Moran, Ruth Terry, Onslow Stevens, and so on. The average length of Roy's pictures went from six reels to eight during this period, and his films were geared for family trade. In addition to the typical cowboy songs written by the Sons, these films included Western-themed Hit Parade tunes like "I'm an Old Cowhand" and "Don't Fence Me In."

During this period Republic president Herbert Yates saw and became infatuated with the stage show OKLAHOMA, so he mandated that Roy's pictures end with miniature stage spectaculars, often involving chorus lines and tap dancers.

The post-WWII period saw a decline of interest in Westerns of this sort, and after 1946 Roy's pictures remained contemporary in theme and setting but became slightly darker and somewhat more violent. The action content was ratcheted up again and occasional scenes of brutality crept into the films.

Mind you, I've broadly outlined these groups; there's variance within each one. Generally speaking, most people think of Roy as the guy from the "King of the Cowboys" phase, with the sequined shirts and the big musical production numbers and Dale Evans at his side. Some B-Western buffs prefer the leaner, tougher, post-WWII group. I lean toward the earlier pictures, although I have favorites in all groups.

I daresay most people of my generation (fiftysomethings) think of Roy as we saw him on TV: ridiculously fancy tailored clothes, harmless fantasies of cowboy life (did he ever actually round up any cattle???), goofy sidekick, Roy more in love with Trigger than with Dale, never any blood spilled or clothes torn, a song every ten minutes, etc.

If his films were as you describe, then the TV Roy appears to have had very little to do with the film Roy.

Jim

I loved the TV show when I was a kid but especially for sideback Pat Brady and Nelliebell (the jeep).

Jim Roots wrote:If his films were as you describe, then the TV Roy appears to have had very little to do with the film Roy.

That's why it's dangerous to make glib, facile generalizations. There are quite a few Rogers Westerns -- especially from the pre-WWII period -- that are first-rate B pictures, but which are blithely dismissed by people who are conditioned to think of Roy as that old guy with the flowery shirts who used to sell hamburgers.

It's not that dangerous to make glib statements, really it isn't.....

But for me I'll take Autry over Roy any old day. There is a goofy charm that runs through his Republic films and they seem to slyly spoof the fact that the leading man is not much of an actor. But then, who was on that lot? His production values are always high (although that pretty much covers most of the releases coming out of that studio in the 30's), his plots tend to tweak the cliches that even then were accepted by audiences, he rarely saw eye-to-eye with his leading lady until somewhere around the last reel or so and his song selections were better.

Gary J.

Ed Hulse wrote:

Jim Roots wrote:If his films were as you describe, then the TV Roy appears to have had very little to do with the film Roy.

That's why it's dangerous to make glib, facile generalizations. There are quite a few Rogers Westerns -- especially from the pre-WWII period -- that are first-rate B pictures, but which are blithely dismissed by people who are conditioned to think of Roy as that old guy with the flowery shirts who used to sell hamburgers.

Weren't they roast beef sandwiches rather than burgers?

Jim

Jim Roots wrote: Weren't they roast beef sandwiches rather than burgers?

Does it really matter?

Ed Hulse wrote:

Jim Roots wrote: Weren't they roast beef sandwiches rather than burgers?

Does it really matter?

Yeah, 'cause if they were hamburgers, they really sucked. But if they were roast beef sandwiches, they were pretty good.

Jim

"If this is coffee, take it away and bring me tea. If it's tea, take it away and bring me coffee."

Mark Twain



Bob

Good outline of Rogers' Republic films. I totally agree with the progression of content from the 30s to the early 50s. I am never comfortable with the brutality that shows up in the later productions--it certainly wasn't necessary for the Saturday matinee kids to see.

As a Saturday matinee kid of the early 50s, I remember I always liked the serial and cartoons more than the B-Western...usually about the time the western came on, my sister and I would be running the aisles or exploring other nooks and crannies of the 1920s theatre we went to then...maybe that's why I am such a fan of historic theatres now.

As many know, Roy Rogers actually got his start at Republic in Gene Autry films. Autry did have that awkward charm that made his movies enjoyable, but his sidekick Smiley Burnette was more often annoying than loveable. Give me Gabby Hayes any day.

Some honorable mentions of both series:

Rogers:
King of the Cowboys (1943)
Don't Fence Me In (1945)

Autry:
The Singing Cowboy (1938?)
Melody Ranch (1940) w/Durante and Ann Miller

Roy Rogers appears briefly in the "I'm an Old Cowhand from the Rio Grande" number, sung by Bing Crosby in Rhythm on the Range in 1936. Rogers was a member on the Sons of the Pioneers and had started in films in 1935. This number os notable because of Rogers but it also features Martha Raye, Louis Prima, Bob Burns, and Leonid Kinskey! Talk about an eclectic singing group.....