NitrateVille.com

I was watching this MGM short again last night, and noticed for the first time a listing in the opening credits for the "Western Electric Sound System." Does this mean that this short used the "sound-on-film" system, as opposed to "sound-on-disc"?

And is "Satan" played by Charles Middleton? If not, somebody is doing an excellent "Ming the Merciless" impression! SETH

I think that Western Electric also controlled patents for elements of the Vitaphone system such as the contour of the horn speaker.

Yes, that's Charles Middleton for certain

I thought that, as a relative late-comer to sound, MGM recorded most of their sound on film in 1929-30 (although released several early soundies with discs for theatres still on the vitaphone system.)

sethb wrote:I was watching this MGM short again last night, and noticed for the first time a listing in the opening credits for the "Western Electric Sound System." Does this mean that this short used the "sound-on-film" system, as opposed to "sound-on-disc"?

And is "Satan" played by Charles Middleton? If not, somebody is doing an excellent "Ming the Merciless" impression! SETH

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, Satan is played by Charles Middleton and the cute secretary is played by Mary Carlisle. If you look fast you might also spot Dorothy Coonan (Mrs. William Wellman) as one of the chorus girls.

Rob

Vitaphone = Sound on Disc
Western Electric/Fox Movietone = Variable Density Optical
RCA Photophone = Variable Area Optical

Of the three, the best audio offered is the Variable Area form of sound. Variable Density was preferred by studios and labs during that period, however, because it was easier to process and handled overload better.

Part of the confusion of the matter is that several studios had a optical/disc release policy, wherein "dupe" discs were made for theaters that were using that system. But by late 1929/early 1930, the only studio to stay with sound-on-disc was Warner Bros.

A major issue in mid-1929 was the low-fidelity that these "dupe" discs were made with. Paramount, MGM and Fox in particular were singled out as the bad "dupes" on the market.

Thanks, Jack -- I had always wondered why there were two different-looking soundtracks on the 16mm prints I handled, and whether one was superior to the other. The photocell in the B&H soundhead seemed to read either kind equally well.

I also remember reading somewhere that Western Electric subsequently introduced "noiseless" optical sound. But this actually only consisted of slightly darkening the soundtrack to provide better contrast or density, which did reduce the "hiss" that we're all familiar with. SETH

Today's film prints also have different forms of digital sounds: Dolby Digital, SDDS, and DTS, each print has multiple sound tracks and discs with it, not much different from the early sound days.

I also remember reading somewhere that Western Electric subsequently introduced "noiseless" optical sound. But this actually only consisted of slightly darkening the soundtrack to provide better contrast or density, which did reduce the "hiss" that we're all familiar with.

Actually, it's a little more than that. What happened was that when Western Electric first started recording Density tracks, the way they would do it was with a ribbon valve, that would stay open and let light through unless the amplified sound signal was fed to it, which caused the two ribbons to open and shut correctly depending on the signal. This resulted in a black space during silence on the negative, but this of course turned up as white on print. This would be fine, except that scratches, dirt, etc., will manifest themselves as pops, ticks and hiss on the soundtrack.

What Noiseless Recording did was add a bias current to the two ribbons that open and close, thereby forcing them shut during dead passages. This let no light onto the negative, of course, which came up black on the print. Since it was black, dirt and scratches were invisible to the photocell, which would send equally dead signals to pure black as it would to pure white.

From at least as early as 1929, Western Electric provided production and exhibition equipment for both Disc and Optical Sound processes. The notice of "Western Electric Sound" on the title card of a film just means that the studio leased Western Electric sound equipment and is not an indication of whether the recording originated on Disc or Optical film.

It should be noted that Warner even went to Optical film recording for original photography very quickly, even when releasing sound on Disc prints, as it was so much easier to edit, synchronize and mix the soundtracks when they were on Optical film.

Thanks for the additional tech info, guys, it's very helpful and interesting. SETH