First Wave Musicals (2)

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Regarding "Show Boat" (1929) they have found all of the original Vitaphone Discs now, including the discs which lent sound to the musical preface of the film. I'm not sure if they have the footage to this preface, but I am about 90% sure they have? They just need to restore it! Warners said they were going to restore it about five years ago and release a 3 Disc version including the 1929, 1936 and 1951 versions. However the restoration of the Technicolor of the 1951 version was proving troublesome apparently especially with the end reel and all that fog etc. I have no idea what the delay is now though with this release? I am hoping for a "Show Boat" 3 Disc blu-ray release now.

By all of the prologue sound, do you mean *all* of the prologue sound? Including all the Whiteman selections? Ziegfeld and Laemmle talking? Otis Harding's introductions? That's wonderful news indeed if it's true!

Regarding the original cast performances, both Tess Gardella numbers ("C'mon Folks" and "Hey, Fella!") have survived, both sound and film elements, for decades. Most if not all of both sound and film of Jules Bledsoe singing "Ol' Man River" and Helen Morgan singing "Bill" survives. All the sound of Morgan singing "Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man" survives. The story I was told was that, when preserving the footage, they successfully copied Morgan entering the set, sitting on the pantry table and singing "Fish ...." before the reel turned to mush. If complete film elements for this has been subsequently found and preserved, then my life if officially complete.

[earlytalkiebuffRob]

Very pleased to read about the missing parts of SHOW BOAT (1929). I saw this about three years back and found it much better than its reputation gave credit for. The disc I had was sound only on the prologue, and I think incomplete, and there was a little missing at the beginning with the redone titles. My only quibble was that where there was some sound missing but visuals extant, it was played mute with subtitles. Even if it hadn't been the exact music used originally I think it would have benefited from underscoring as that sequence came over as rather flat without any music.

For a while the DVD was 'gray market' and was one of an enormous list which some fellow had recorded from TNT (and perhaps other channels). Many difficult titles were on the list, but the fellow as ass enough to include easily found films such as THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD, etc., which could be purchased in 'official' editions for less. Unsurprisingly the FBI felt his collar, but he would have had a better case if he'd concentrated on unavailable titles and had made less of a business of it rather than supplying them at £8.00 a throw.

Incidentally, would it have originally been shown silent with orchestra in cinemas not wired for sound? And interesting comment re Channel 4 KING OF JAZZ as I had a tape of that once and it did finish a little abruptly. Was the end credit 'Finis' in the film originally or from a foreign release?

By the way, the book by Edward M Bradley sounded interesting, so I looked to see if any were available, and the author is EDWIN Bradley!

[FrankFay]

Very pleased to read about the missing parts of SHOW BOAT (1929). I saw this about three years back and found it much better than its reputation gave credit for. The disc I had was sound only on the prologue, and I think incomplete, and there was a little missing at the beginning with the redone titles. My only quibble was that where there was some sound missing but visuals extant, it was played mute with subtitles. Even if it hadn't been the exact music used originally I think it would have benefited from underscoring as that sequence came over as rather flat without any music.

The opening reels with the boat docking and character introductions are first rate - Harry Pollard was an uneven director but he really captured the excitement and movement.

[earlytalkiebuffRob]

Bit of confusion over THE VAGABOND KING (1930). Apparently this once lost movie is available, 'missing, of course, the color', but Barrios describes the rich colour design of the film. Had read it had been restored, but what's the status? Perhaps it is preserved in Technicolor, but only available on dvd in b/w...

[Donald Binks]

Bit of confusion over THE VAGABOND KING (1930). Apparently this once lost movie is available, 'missing, of course, the color', but Barrios describes the rich colour design of the film. Had read it had been restored, but what's the status. Perhaps it is preserved in Technicolor, but only available on dvd in b/w...

This film exist in the original two-colour Technicolor and was restored some time ago by the UCLA. I don't believe it has been released on any format though.

[Christopher Jacobs]

Bit of confusion over THE VAGABOND KING (1930). Apparently this once lost movie is available, 'missing, of course, the color', but Barrios describes the rich colour design of the film. Had read it had been restored, but what's the status. Perhaps it is preserved in Technicolor, but only available on dvd in b/w...

I've only seen it on 16mm and 35mm film, both in very nice-looking reproductions of the original 2-color Technicolor. The film itself is not very good except as a record of the stage play, although the music is pleasant and the color adds much of the interest. I would consider a Black & White DVD edition to be unwatchable.

[entredeuxguerres]

...although the music is pleasant...

Pleasant? There's damning with faint praise, in spades. Then what you might call "gorgeous" would surely overwhelm & stupefy my nervous system. Jeanette, I might say, is not presented to best advantage vocally, seems even a bit inhibited, though stunningly beautiful, as always, but Dennis King is simply immense, not only vocally but in stage presence.

The PBS series "Broadway" included a snippet of the color footage, all that I've seen, or will ever see, probably; the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me. Not watchable in B&W? I've viewed it that way (murky, to be sure) not less than half a dozen times.

[BGM]

... the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me.

I wholeheartedly agree!!!!!! For me to say anything else would open up a whole can of worms......

[LouieD]

One more thing:

Barrios offers a handy list of what survives and in what form (complete, b/w only, post-Code re-releases, etc.) even though he doesn't offer a list of what titles are commercially available. Good call as such a list would be outdated before it went to press.

His list is certainly not as accurate as you wish to think. He lists portions of "Her Golden Calf" as surviving and it does not.

he's a bit wishy-washy on it, claiming that "several reels" are lost - which could mean almost anything. Are you stating categorically that the whole thing is a total loss? Nothing from it was recycled in subsequent shorts, etc.?

Not that I have ever found.

[LouieD]

the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me.

This may be the most idiotic statement I have ever read on Nitrateville.

[entredeuxguerres]

the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me.

This may be the most idiotic statement I have ever read on Nitrateville.

[entredeuxguerres]

the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me.

This may be the most idiotic statement I have ever read on Nitrateville.

To best appreciate how full of dreck you are (as usual!), review some of your own.

[Donald Binks]

...although the music is pleasant...

Pleasant? There's damning with faint praise, in spades. Then what you might call "gorgeous" would surely overwhelm & stupefy my nervous system. Jeanette, I might say, is not presented to best advantage vocally, seems even a bit inhibited, though stunningly beautiful, as always, but Dennis King is simply immense, not only vocally but in stage presence.

The PBS series "Broadway" included a snippet of the color footage, all that I've seen, or will ever see, probably; the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me. Not watchable in B&W? I've viewed it that way (murky, to be sure) not less than half a dozen times.

I haven't even seen it in black and white! All I have seen is a short snippet of the colour - which made my eyes water! I think the restored print has been "around" since about 1985.

Dennis King had a superb voice and I do have a series of gramophone records from "The Vagabond King" which King starred in on Broadway before making the picture.

If anyone doubts how marvelous it must be - let them listen to King singing "The Song of the Vagabonds"!

[drednm]

The Vagabond King was restored by UCLA in 1990 and has been trotted out a few times. Otherwise, it sits on its shelf.

[entredeuxguerres]

If anyone doubts how marvelous it must be - let them listen to King singing "The Song of the Vagabonds"!

Every number he sings knocks me out, though "If I Were King," the first one he sings, I think, is riveting; and it's his acting while singing it, which you're missing on the gramophone, that contributes mightily to that effect.

Drop a note to UCLA--perhaps they'll let you borrow it; sure, they will.

[Donald Binks]

Every number he sings knocks me out, though "If I Were King," the first one he sings, I think, is riveting; and it's his acting while singing it, which you're missing on the gramophone, that contributes mightily to that effect.

I can well imagine it. The real urge for me to see it is that it is a 'continuance' of what he did on stage.

Drop a note to UCLA--perhaps they'll let you borrow it; sure, they will.

I've a good mind to write to the UCLA before my next journey to the United States and ask that they put it on for me!

[Michael O'Regan]

I just bought Barrio's book A SONG IN THE DARK. It's, thus far, well researched and presented. However, in my copy at least, the stills are pretty dark. Is this the case for anybody else?

[drednm]

They look ok in my book.... Did you buy 1st or 2nd edition?

[Michael O'Regan]

2nd Ed. Oxford University Press.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Song-Dark-Birth ... p_t_1_ZHXD" target="_blank

[entredeuxguerres]

2nd Ed. Oxford University Press.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Song-Dark-Birth ... p_t_1_ZHXD" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Time to emigrate:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDet ... p%3By%3D17" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I overpaid for mine--about $5, new, several years ago.

Make Amazon your last choice for book searches; one of the "bookfinder" sites your first.

[Michael O'Regan]

Make Amazon your last choice for book searches; one of the "bookfinder" sites your first.

I usually tend to do so, Abe's in particular.
This, however, was a Valentines gift from the missus.

[LouieD]

the thought that a restored print molders in a university archive disgusts & enrages me.

This may be the most idiotic statement I have ever read on Nitrateville.

To best appreciate how full of dreck you are (as usual!), review some of your own.

I don't have to, all my posts are terrific! But you boob up this whole forum by thinking that one of the most prestigious film archives, research facilities, and restoration centers in the US is just a "university archive" who would let a print "molder". Just another dope who feels if they can't get it on DVD then some archive MUST be keeping it from them.

[entredeuxguerres]

I don't have to, all my posts are terrific! But you boob up this whole forum by thinking that one of the most prestigious film archives, research facilities, and restoration centers in the US is just a "university archive" who would let a print "molder". Just another dope who feels if they can't get it on DVD then some archive MUST be keeping it from them.

Is UCLA a "university"? Is their film storage facility an "archive"? If so, how can "university archive" not be an accurate description?

If in the 24 years since it's restoration (publicly funded, I assume), this important picture still "sits on its self," unavailable to the general public, then "molder" can't be very wide of the mark...as any dope should be able to recognize.

[LouieD]

If in the 24 years since it's restoration (publicly funded, I assume), this important picture still "sits on its self," unavailable to the general public, then "molder" can't be very wide of the mark...as any dope should be able to recognize.

You should use a dictionary to look up "molder" because you obviously haven't read the definition.

Also, it has played at various festivals and if you visit UCLA you can probably arrange a screening there. Just because YOU can't get it on DVD in all it's Technicolor glory isn't UCLA's fault.

[Donald Binks]

Also, it has played at various festivals and if you visit UCLA you can probably arrange a screening there. Just because YOU can't get it on DVD in all it's Technicolor glory isn't UCLA's fault.

Who then should we be "encouraging" to get it out there?

[entredeuxguerres]

Just because YOU can't get it on DVD in all it's Technicolor glory isn't UCLA's fault.

Sure it is. Festivals? I'm not satisfied with watching it once. Especially if while doing so there's risk of running in to the likes of you.

[Christopher Jacobs]

...although the music is pleasant...

Pleasant? There's damning with faint praise, in spades. . .

Yep. You got it. "Lovely Technicolor and pleasant music" is a short & sweet review of THE VAGABOND KING. Now as for WHOOPEE! and KING OF JAZZ, I can watch those incessantly, also in lovely Technicolor, but with far more enjoyable music and comedy that's actually funny, as well.

[earlytalkiebuffRob]

Thanks, Donald Binks, for information on THE VAGABOND KING (1930). At least it is now in my sights as opposed to being lost as was reported years ago....

[FrankFay]

Just because YOU can't get it on DVD in all it's Technicolor glory isn't UCLA's fault.

Sure it is. Festivals? I'm not satisfied with watching it once. Especially if while doing so there's risk of running in to the likes of you.

Do you ever go to Capitolfest? I'm not sure who you are, but I'd like to know - so I can avoid you.

[entredeuxguerres]

Do you ever go to Capitolfest? I'm not sure who you are, but I'd like to know - so I can avoid you.

Invite yourself to this party, Frank? Quite unnecessary, really...or don't you think your fellow FAH is capable of handing the situation?

You'd do well to avoid me, but you can breathe easily at Capitolfest.