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Can anyone more informed on the subject than I am kindly give me guidance on which of the 1929/30 musicals are available in any format and which of the others have survived in a shape that they could be released. They seem to fall into two difficult years in that no site I have come across seems to give this information entirely viz. Silent Era only deals with 1929.

I would recommend you obtain a copy of Richard Barrios A SONG IN THE DARK, which covers this very period on the first Hollywood musicals.

You question is a bit broad but I think the very entertaining book (it came out in a 2nd edition last year) will get you started.

The following musicals are definitely available:

The Hollywood Revue of 1929 (1929) (WAC)
On with the Show (1929) (WAC)
Show of Shows (1929) (WAC)
It's A Great Life (1929) (WAC)
Rio Rita (1929) (WAC)
Sally (1929) (WAC)
Paramount on Parade (1930) DVD
The Cuckoos (1930) Exists with 2-strip Technicolor sequences. Not on DVD AFAIK
Chasing Rainbows (1930) (WAC)
Mammy (1930) (WAC)
King of Jazz (1930) DVD
Lord Byron of Broadway (1930) (WAC)
Sweetie (1929) DVD
Whoopee! (1930) DVD (as part of a very expensive box set)
Sunnyside Up (1929) DVD
Say It With Songs (1929) (WAC)
New Moon (1930) Not on DVD AFAIK
Bright Lights (1930) Not on DVD AFAIK
Broadway Babies (1929)
The Playboy of Paris (1930) DVD
Show Girl in Hollywood (1930) (WAC)
Puttin' on the Ritz (1930) Not on DVD AFAIK
Let's Go Native (1930) DVD
The Broadway Melody (1929) DVD
The Love Parade (1929) DVD
The Vagabond King (1930) DVD
The Lottery Bride (1930) DVD
Big Boy (1930) (WAC)

Many thanks - I didn't realise as many were indeed available.

I have the Barrios book - a wonderful read but not really concerned with availability/survival. Does anyone know if the Bradley book is better on this point and worth the investment.

SUNNY SIDE UP and KING OF JAZZ are on DVD (legit)? That's a new one on me.

As far as I know, these 1927-30 musicals are legitimately available on DVD:

Warner pressed DVDs: The Jazz Singer (1927), The Broadway Melody (1929), Hallelujah! (1929), Free and Easy (1930, on TCM Buster Keaton collection)

Warner Archive MOD DVDs: The Singing Fool (1928), On With the Show! (1929), The Hollywood Revue of 1929, Say It With Songs (1929), Rio Rita (1929), So Long Letty (1929), So This Is College (1929), The Show of Shows (1929), It's a Great Life (1929), Sally (1929), Weary River (1929), Chasing Rainbows (1930), They Learned About Women (1930), Lord Byron of Broadway (1930), Mammy (1930), Show Girl in Hollywood (1930), Golden Dawn (1930), Sweet Kitty Bellairs (1930), Big Boy (1930), Love in the Rough (1930), Madam Satan (1930), Sunny (1930), Maybe It's Love (1930, retitled Eleven Men and a Girl)

Kino DVDs: Applause (1929), Be Yourself! (1930), The Lottery Bride (1930)

Criterion/Eclipse DVDs (Lubitsch set): The Love Parade (1929), Monte Carlo (1930)

Fox DVD (Borzage-Murnau boxed set): Song o' My Heart (1930)

Universal DVDs: The Cocoanuts (1929), Animal Crackers (1930) [these were on a Marx Brothers boxed set issued a few years ago, but they just were reissued as separate DVDs ... alas, unrestored]

Public domain [some with multiple distributors, others hard to find]: Glorifying the American Girl (1929), The Great Gabbo (1929), Lucky Boy (1929), The Talk of Hollywood (1929), The Vagabond Lover (1929), Check and Double Check (1930), Dixiana (1930), Paradise Island (1930), Pardon My Gun (1930), Sunny Skies (1930)

Whoopee! (1930) is indeed available only on the gigantic MGM "Hollywood Musical Collection" boxed set ($450 on Amazon.com as we speak).

Sunny Side Up (1929) and King of Jazz (1930) were legally issued on VHS -- SSU on Collector's Choice, KOJ by Universal -- but have not been released on official DVDs.

Jack Theakston wrote:SUNNY SIDE UP and KING OF JAZZ are on DVD (legit)? That's a new one on me.

I got King of Jazz from Scooters movie shop online. I think its public domain. DVD-R in 2 strip technicolor but quality is only fair but not complaining for $10.

They also have from the 29/30 period The Big Pond, Follow Thru, Vagabond King, Whoopie, Safety in Numbers, Broadway, Lets go Native, Captain of the Guard and several others.

Those are not PD titles, nor is KING OF JAZZ. The latter was released ages ago as a legit VHS version; the DVD is probably "borrowed" from that.

Danny Burk wrote:Those are not PD titles, nor is KING OF JAZZ. The latter was released ages ago as a legit VHS version; the DVD is probably "borrowed" from that.

Going by the quality and anonymous packaging it does look borrowed or worse.

Changsham, any idea of the quality of Follow Thru and Vagabond King from that seller?

Not sure where I first came across mention of Barrios's A SONG IN THE DARK, but a hearty thank-you to all those who recommended it. Aside from the odd occasion where he comments (rather than quotes comments by others) on a film or show he hasn't seen (due to youth or a film's unavailability), this is certainly a difficult book to put down. In fact when I received it work was put on hold while I devoured it greedily as it covers an area given scant attention elsewhere. Bizarrely, it was ex-library and one wonders why any library should discard such a useful and fascinating book. Their loss and my gain.

A lot of useful information plus discussion of films I have never heard of (HOWDY, BROADWAY!, MOTHER'S BOY) so plenty of new leads. One query - he states that SONG OF THE WEST (1930) survives in black-and-white, and I was led to understand that only a tiny fragment remained. To the best of available knowledge who is right?

I think there are many others floating around that have not been listed here.

CHILDREN OF PLEASURE
KATHLEEN MAVOURNEEN
HONEY
SWEET
PLAYING AROUND
SPRING IS HERE
BRIGHT LIGHTS
BROADWAY BABIES

and lots of others.....

earlytalkiebuffRob wrote:Bizarrely, it was ex-library and one wonders why any library should discard such a useful and fascinating book.

The wonder, I should say, is that such an esoteric item was acquired at all.

I suppose you've noticed that the author's enthusiasm for the great majority of these films doesn't exactly sweep him off his feet. Before I'd read more than a few dozen pages, I was wondering how anyone with such negative, often contemptuous, views of so many of these pictures (most of which I adore) could have been motivated to undertake such an impressive work of scholarship. Therefor, regarding his opinions on pictures you haven't seen, take them all with a BIG grain of salt.

Though Fifty Million Frenchmen (1931) was released without songs in the U.S., this Cole Porter show "was released outside the United States as a full musical comedy," quoth Wikipedia, so lovers of early movie musical comedies (as well as lovers of Olsen & Johnson) can hope that in some dark corner of some film collection overseas a copy, with musical numbers intact, will be found. Even without the music, I quite like Fifty Million Frenchmen (I saw it, in fragments, on YouTube; it appears it's still there); it very much deserves restoration and a DVD release.

I didn't know "The Vagabond King" was available on DVD? Is this correct?

Is the 1929 version of "Show Boat" available (including the prologue)?

All I need now is for the Technicolor scenes to be re-discovered for the 1929 "Desert Song" and my trio of wants - as far as early musicals is concerned will be complete! (Of course, I am awaiting the restoration of the "King of Jazz" too)

Donald Binks wrote:I didn't know "The Vagabond King" was available on DVD? Is this correct?

Yes, missing of course the color. Print I've got is "OK," but could certainly profit by restoration...though the wonderful music & singing compensates for any visual shortcomings.

Only a trio of wants? I admire your self-restraint.

The 1929 Show Boat is run occasionally on TCM and was released on laserdisc:
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/21859/ML1 ... 1946-1951)

I have some comments on Howdy, Broadway! in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11190

-HA

entredeuxguerres wrote:

Donald Binks wrote:I didn't know "The Vagabond King" was available on DVD? Is this correct?

Yes, missing of course the color. Print I've got is "OK," but could certainly profit by restoration...though the wonderful music & singing compensates for any visual shortcomings.

Only a trio of wants? I admire your self-restraint.

Well I do have a few of the early musicals already - and, besides, I didn't want to appear as a real greedy guts!

Harold Aherne wrote:The 1929 Show Boat is run occasionally on TCM and was released on laserdisc:
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/21859/ML1 ... 1946-1951)

I have some comments on Howdy, Broadway! in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11190

-HA

Thanks for the info. It'd be interesting to find out more of what was actually on the laser disc - it says "mono, silent with orchestral score"? As far as I know all the songs for the show were on a talkie prologue and the main part of the film was a part talkie with mostly orchestral accompaniment.

Perhaps it will one day make it to DVD?

Yes, I had noticed his dislike of a lot of films of this period, in many cases which seemed a trifle over-severe to say the least. And I presume he has seen many of these projected in a theater as opposed to tv which would normally be an advantage. Possibly a small-screen showing has the advantage if only one or two of you are watching, whereas a theater viewing can be arid with a tiny audience. Perhaps he concentrated too many films into a small period.

My admiration for the book (so far) is not coloured by differences of opinion and he has not put me off some of the ones he finds dreadful, especially as GLORIFYING THE AMERICAN GIRL (1929) awaits my pleasure, among many...

And impressed by the speed of this discussion!

Donald Binks wrote:
Is the 1929 version of "Show Boat" available (including the prologue)?

I've read that a few more discs for this have been discovered, including one for a presently mute dialogue sequence. There's been talk of restoring this and pairing it with the James Whale version.

The Barrios book is estimable indeed and very fair and accurate in its assessments and descriptions except for the shoddy treatment of Alice White.

earlytalkiebuffRob wrote: My admiration for the book (so far) is not coloured by differences of opinion and he has not put me off some of the ones he finds dreadful, especially as GLORIFYING THE AMERICAN GIRL (1929)...

One of my great favorites!

Incidentally, while the only available DVDs are B&W (Grapevine sells a Glorifying/Dixiana double-feature, a great bargain), a color print exists in some archive--a clip of it is included in a documentary on musicals made by PBS.

Richard Barrios is also a frequent guest of Cinefest in Syracuse (every March, the weekend around St. Patrick's Day), where he presents a selection of scenes from early musicals with commentary (not over the clips though). Always a highlight of the weekend.

FrankFay wrote:

Donald Binks wrote:
Is the 1929 version of "Show Boat" available (including the prologue)?

I've read that a few more discs for this have been discovered, including one for a presently mute dialogue sequence. There's been talk of restoring this and pairing it with the James Whale version.

Yes, more footage and audio exists than TCM currently runs - or even what was on the laserdisc set.

Hopefully - one day - we'll get everything extant compiled in one nice package.

One more thing:

Barrios offers a handy list of what survives and in what form (complete, b/w only, post-Code re-releases, etc.) even though he doesn't offer a list of what titles are commercially available. Good call as such a list would be outdated before it went to press.

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:One more thing:

Barrios offers a handy list of what survives and in what form (complete, b/w only, post-Code re-releases, etc.) even though he doesn't offer a list of what titles are commercially available. Good call as such a list would be outdated before it went to press.

His list is certainly not as accurate as you wish to think. He lists portions of "Her Golden Calf" as surviving and it does not.

I have got the Edward M. Bradley book, and it's really good! It is like a filmography of every single musical from 1927 to 1932. And yes it also even includes the "Howdy Broadway" (with John Wayne) that you never knew existed. I would recommend you get that book as well.

Regarding "Show Boat" (1929) they have found all of the original Vitaphone Discs now, including the discs which lent sound to the musical preface of the film. I'm not sure if they have the footage to this preface, but I am about 90% sure they have? They just need to restore it! Warners said they were going to restore it about five years ago and release a 3 Disc version including the 1929, 1936 and 1951 versions. However the restoration of the Technicolor of the 1951 version was proving troublesome apparently especially with the end reel and all that fog etc. I have no idea what the delay is now though with this release? I am hoping for a "Show Boat" 3 Disc blu-ray release now.

There is another thread somewhere here about the restoration of "King Of Jazz". Universal now have a perfect original 1930 print of the film in their possession. This print is all 35mm, without all of those 16mm battered dupes. The colour also is perfect 2-Strip Technicolor. I.e "Green and Red" as oppose to Blue and Red and Green which the VHS seemingly has. Universal have not announced a restoration yet as there are rumours that it would be way too costly to restore it. They say it would be in the region of half a million Dollars, and Universal I suppose are worried they wouldn't recoup that money on sales of a blu-ray. Maybe the "Lonesome" blu-ray didn't sell very well last year? Who knows? Any DVD-R's of KOJ would have originated from this 1980's VHS tape, because it has never had a DVD release. Also knocking about on DVD-R is the 1933 cut. I think this was broadcast on TV in the States at some point, and someone recorded it? I have a copy of it and it only includes the 35mm numbers and sketches. None of the 16mm stuff, and its all in the wrong order as well.

Another source: In 1987 on Christmas Eve, Channel Four Television here in the UK broadcast "King Of Jazz" as well, and I recorded it to VHS, and that is slightly different too - it is missing the final minute of footage for some reason? I don't know why? I think someone at Channel Four turned off the film before it was finished as it was about 2am!! Maybe he wanted to go home or something? I have no idea? Anyway, that is the best copy that I have; the one that was broadcast on television here in the UK. Its much better than the Universal VHS copy.

Regarding "Show Boat" (1929) they have found all of the original Vitaphone Discs now, including the discs which lent

There is another thread somewhere here about the restoration of "King Of Jazz". Universal now have a perfect

Thank you for all the information. It's good news that "Show Boat" is nearly all there. Hopefully, as you say, the 3 versions can be put on an a set and released that way.

I find the early versions of these musicals interesting as you are getting close to how they would have run on stage when first put into production - particularly so with "The Desert Song".

I heard that "The King of Jazz" was being restored some time back, apparently the project has been delayed. i actually saw this at the pictures back in the 1980's - so I don't know what version it was. It looked as though it was a 35mm print - however it was very washed out as alas, a lot of the early colour films are.

LouieD wrote:

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:One more thing:

Barrios offers a handy list of what survives and in what form (complete, b/w only, post-Code re-releases, etc.) even though he doesn't offer a list of what titles are commercially available. Good call as such a list would be outdated before it went to press.

His list is certainly not as accurate as you wish to think. He lists portions of "Her Golden Calf" as surviving and it does not.

he's a bit wishy-washy on it, claiming that "several reels" are lost - which could mean almost anything. Are you stating categorically that the whole thing is a total loss? Nothing from it was recycled in subsequent shorts, etc.?