NitrateVille.com

I noticed that the Sherlock Holmes videos one can find on YouTube by
searching on "silent Sherlock Holmes" are mostly in terrible condition.
It seems to me that some film restoration is not that difficult. For instance,
if there is an intertitle that is shaky, all one has to do is find the best
frame, and use that frame for the duration the intertitle is to be displayed.
Or, if there are some sections missing, and one part of the film is very
short, one could simply copy the missing sections as a type of still, so that
the viewer can focus on it and digest what is going on there. There are
other types of restoration that I understand from a software point of view,
as in when a static background is ruined in some frames but not in the others, the
software simply fills in the frames that has the bad backgrounds with the pixels
from the good backgrounds. The software fences in the sections that are moving and
does not fill in anything there. That is the quickest way to do that kind of
restoration. There is also the contrast/darkness function, which one can see on
some of the Sherlock Holmes films where the film is dark and muddy, and I'm not sure
but it seems a brightness alteration could improve that.

These are all great ideas for improving video/digital viewing copies. However, I think many here would agree that the time, and allocation of funds, would be better spent preserving and restoring actual film elements. This way the new 'master' looks as good, and most likely better, than the digital viewing copy that has been tweaked by computer software. Proper restoration means the creation of new film elements. This of course is dependent on the availability of film print materials and the willingness of archives and private owners to earmark the films for this process.

I just found some of those silent Sherlock Holmes to be unviewable.
Seems like a small amount of tweaking might change that. I love
watching Sherlock Holmes movies, and i know a lot of other people
do, but the extremely poor quality dampens the viewing pleasure.

Not really getting the general line of questioning here. Are you wanting to do digital restoration? Or hoping someone
else will?

Pookybear

I was hoping we could discuss the process from a grassroots perspective.
I was putting it out there to see if anyone else was interested in doing these
kinds of things, who isn't already here and doing it professionally.

I believe most of the professional software is probably over $500. Is that true?
What can be done with something like Adobe Premiere?

Ah, yes now it is clear to me. And yes proper programs cost good money but do the job much faster than
anything else, and well time is money. The first problem to get over is getting a good digital image to work
with first. The better the original scan the better the end product will be.
Been working on this here at the house on and off on this, but not the results I want. However, I seem to keep getting
distracted by other matters so I have not put full effort into this project. Sad to say trying to save some
35mm equiptment from going to the scrapyard seems to be job one these days.

Pookybear

I think the idea of a grass roots approach to perserving or making more palatable films is an excellent idea, I have no technical knowledge to contribute, but I think the time is soon coming when this approach makes a certain amount of sense. I'd like you to more fully develop your ideas, I have no idea how feasible they truly would be, but I think there is merit in your suggestion, and I'd like more information.

There is a large collection (possibly the largest) of Sherlock Holmes material at the Univ. of MN.
Anyone exploring films using that character should probably contact them for what they know:

http://special.lib.umn.edu/rare/holmes. ... 0Resources" target="_blank

There are descriptions of the collection, links to other collections, etc., etc., etc.

I did not notice any actual videos, but there are stills, etc.

Rick

This would not compete with proper archivists restoring film
elements, but would just be a fun hobby upgrading the best digital
versions that are floating around out there. There are over 75
full length silents on YouTube, and many more shorts. Many
of these look very poor, and the fixes that I've previously suggested
here would greatly improve them. That's really the only plan I have. I have
a copy of Premiere from a job I did for Adobe a few years ago, but
that's it. I also put my money into book publishing, software
development, and music, so I'm not going to buying much software
soon.

I'm good at motivation, ideas, and so on. I have extensive history
in music restoration, using Adobe Audition, which is good professional
software, so I understand some of the flow of it. It has some art to it,
not just science, and if there is really no budget except time, it could
offer a lot of fun to someone who wants to make a difference.

If someone can provide the sequence files (tif, cin, dpx, etc), I'd be willing to do this for no charge. A video file won't do.

I need something for my demo reel, and would simply love to do it. I've got the time, equipment and software. I just need the source material. I don't care what it is - doesn't need to be Sherlock Holmes.

Can you describe what it would take to get you those files? What kind of equipment and
what software? What level skill also to accomplish it professionally?

The problem I've found with the majority of the video files you can download from the net is that they quite often have been transferred from one video file to another, and another, and...

It makes translating them back into a progressive sequence without duplicate frames nearly impossible.

You'd need to find a good source video which you could do a simple 3:2 pulldown removal from, or someone would need to provide the sequence files from a scan. With all the material out there, there must be someone who has access to something like that. I'm looking as well!

Perhaps a collector has a good quality print or neg they'd be willing to get scanned?

qualitymatters wrote: Perhaps a collector has a good quality print or neg they'd be willing to get scanned?

And thus my original point...best to be dealing with film print elements.

Tom Stathes wrote:

qualitymatters wrote: Perhaps a collector has a good quality print or neg they'd be willing to get scanned?

And thus my original point...best to be dealing with film print elements.

Perhaps one of your Bray animated shorts?

qualitymatters wrote:

Tom Stathes wrote:

qualitymatters wrote: Perhaps a collector has a good quality print or neg they'd be willing to get scanned?

And thus my original point...best to be dealing with film print elements.

Perhaps one of your Bray animated shorts?

That would be an interesting undertaking. To date, I've had nitrate 35mms preserved as new 35mm prints and standard-def transfers done of 16mm materials for prior uses but very little post-production done on the films if any. Hopefully that will change in the new year...I'm very much an analog luddite (though as we've discussed here, print elements are still the best sources) and I will require some digital education to move further in preserving/redistributing these films.

I would be curious, though, to see what kind of results the various restoration softwares mentioned here might have on some 16mm/35mm HD transfers I have just received of four Bray films. These will need to be converted to digital files first as they are only on HDCAM tape.

The offer stands. If you can provide the files, I'll gladly do a full digital restoration and provide you with new files which you can use to create what you will with them (dvd, blu-ray, new film negative).

The majority of the work would be being done on an HP Z800 workstation using Image Systems Phoenix Refine. Since you actually have some terrific source elements, the higher resolution you can provide the better. Standard Def would be the bare minimum I'd want to work with. 2K would be better, 4K even better - 6K would be fantastic! Unlike many of the bigger houses that spent hundreds of thousands of dollars prepping for HD a few years back, I've been working in 4K, 6K and even 8K for years. I know getting your material scanned at those resolutions can be pricey though, so I'll work with what you can give me.

Let's definitely connect via email -- mine is cartoonsonfilm (at) gmail (dot) com

Appreciate this very much!

If you would like a period appropriate compiled score, I'll happily do one for your project, in Sibelius software, which can be tied to most film editing software or viceversa, and with any luck I can put together some professional musicians or record a score from an actual organ if you prefer.

No one wants to restore THE SKY PILOT (1921) w/ Colleen Moore, as is?



OK, I'll just take credit for bringing you guys together

I realize this is an old thread from a couple of years back, but I think it's worth reviving, particularly if there's someone with connections to film archives - I've got a little proposal.

The original thread discussed the possibility of doing digital "cleanup" work on films that are already floating around the web as video files. This probably wouldn't work well, since the files are already compressed.

However, I'd like to propose an alternative.

I'm a collector of radio transcriptions - the 16" discs that were used to record and syndicate radio programs in the 30s through the 50s. Already, there's a very active group of old time radio enthusiasts that are actively engaged in digitizing these original discs and doing clean-up on the high-quality files, straight from the discs. These folks aren't paid for the work and do it for their love of old radio.

In some cases, like mine, collectors have the special turntables and styli for creating the transfer and will digitize discs that otr enthusiasts find in estates, auctions or family collections. Other take the digital files and do clean-up on them.

The whole process is "crowd-sourced". Much of the material that's public domain winds up at archive.org. Some of the digital restorations and discs are donated to archives.

I've thought for some time that something similar could be done with films.

Let's say an archives had the funding to scan an original 35mm print of a public domain film. A system could be set up where the digital files are given in parts to different volunteers that do scratch removal, image stabilization, etc and send the files back. The archives would have a staff member that does a "final check" and perhaps some additional clean-up work. Then they'd wind up with a 2K or 4K digital print that could be loaned out for theatrical screenings or would be ready to go for online streaming.

This kind of system would be perfect for lesser-known silents that have historical value or interest, but not enough commercial support to make a video release or digital restoration possible.

I think this could be done by volunteers - some might have an interest in film and already have experience with working with photo tools. Others could be trained through some online videos and given specific kinds of tasks to do with the bits they're working with. Among old time radio enthusiasts, we've gotten really good results with amateurs that are given training and advice by more experienced volunteers.

This might be a good candidate for some type of grant to set up the system and do the initial scans. Or it might be the basis for some type of non-profit that works with volunteers and archives, similar to the Vitaphone Project.