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I know there are photographers and camera buffs here (who knew??).

I just purchased a Eastman Kodak No. 2 Autographic camera in the original box. Camera looks to be in great shape from the photos.

It will take 120 film. Got a good source to get 120 film, what kind to use (100, 200, 400)? You can't use color film in this, right?

Anybody have some tips on using a vintage camera of this ilk?

I presume it's best to use this camera outdoors rather than indoors.

I guess I will need to find a camera shop that still develops prints since I do not plan on repurposing a closet into an ad hoc darkroom.

Judging from my work with my Canon point and shoot digital, I expect many fuzzy black and white shots! That said, I think this will be fun.

Sure, you can use color film in any camera. I'd stick to negative (as with black and white), since transparency film is touchy on exposure and you'd have to use a hand meter. Neg film is much more forgiving. You might choose 400 speed b&w neg, which will give a little more grain than the slower speeds; likewise for color neg.

I'm not familiar with this particular model, but some cameras of this type use 620 film, rather than 120. That's basically a half-length roll of 120. As you'd expect, it's hard to find, but a few specialty outfits make it. That said, it's most likely to use 120, so give that a try first since it's easy to find and relatively inexpensive. Was the manual by chance included?

Have fun with the new toy!

Danny Burk wrote:Sure, you can use color film in any camera. I'd stick to negative (as with black and white), since transparency film is touchy on exposure and you'd have to use a hand meter. Neg film is much more forgiving. You might choose 400 speed b&w neg, which will give a little more grain than the slower speeds; likewise for color neg.

I'm not familiar with this particular model, but some cameras of this type use 620 film, rather than 120. That's basically a half-length roll of 120. As you'd expect, it's hard to find, but a few specialty outfits make it. That said, it's most likely to use 120, so give that a try first since it's easy to find and relatively inexpensive. Was the manual by chance included?

Have fun with the new toy!

Okay, I will try both, what the heck?

I found a site where the guy took some amazing shots with the same model (he's pro, though): http://mconnealy.com/vintagecameras/brownie/ scroll down, they're beautiful. He's got images of the manual which I've printed off.

As for film, here's a site I found, can you suggest what would be preferable? Since you are a pro! Can you tell I am WAY a novice at this?
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/c403-Blac ... sultpage=2


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Your autographic Kodak is a folding camera with a bellows. If it has the original bellows, it is probably gonna have pinhole leaks in the material. This can fog your negatives and give you a false impression of how good the image can ultimately be. There are techniques for sealing up the pinholes.

Freestyle is one of the largest remaining vendors for analog film for film cameras. They are a good company. I would start with one of their private label films, of no more than ISO 100. (to minimize problems with bellows leaks).

rudyfan wrote:I know there are photographers and camera buffs here (who knew??).

I just purchased a Eastman Kodak No. 2 Autographic camera in the original box. Camera looks to be in great shape from the photos.

It will take 120 film. Got a good source to get 120 film, what kind to use (100, 200, 400)? You can't use color film in this, right?

Are you positive it takes 120 film and not 620 film? Some of these vintage cameras on websites say they take 120, but modern reels will not fit in the camera themselves. If you are looking for 120 film, I always use B&H (as they are pretty close to me) but you may find someone similar on the West Coast and Freestyle may suit your needs:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/index.php

You CAN use color film for this camera, no doubt, but it will certainly cost more to process and print.

Anybody have some tips on using a vintage camera of this ilk?

I cannot stress this enough, MAKE SURE YOUR CAMERA IS LIGHT TIGHT. IT'S NEARLY 100 YEARS OLD, so open up the camera, take the back off, and while looking through the back of the camera run a flashlight over the front bellows to see if there is any light coming through. You also have to worry about light coming in through the back where the film goes, so you may have to shoot a cursory roll of film first to see if you got leaks. You can buy some camera tape to cover up these leaks (DON'T USE ELECTRICIANS TAPE AS IT WILL LEAVE RESIDUE) and it's not that expensive.

Then again, people have used some light leaks "artistically" but maybe that is not your cup of tea.

I presume it's best to use this camera outdoors rather than indoors.

That's what they were made for but I have also used them with a flash indoors, just try to fire the shutter the same time you fire the flash. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

I guess I will need to find a camera shop that still develops prints since I do not plan on repurposing a closet into an ad hoc darkroom.

When I had mine, I still had a wet darkroom and loved processing myself. Not today you can still process to negatives and then scan the negatives. Pretty cool stuff. But, I think you will have to be realistic that not too many labs are processing film anymore and expect the processing to be expensive. Like I said, if you just process to negative and have a scanner, you can scan 'em up!

Judging from my work with my Canon point and shoot digital, I expect many fuzzy black and white shots! That said, I think this will be fun.

I think you may be in for a pleasant surprise. I used to shoot with mine about 6 feet from my subject and I was always amazed at how sharp the photos would come out.

I gotta say, good luck on your journey with this camera. After I hit "submit" I will probably think of 100 different other things I could tell you from my own experience, but I will leave you with some things to think about:

1. Don't let the first 10 rolls get you down. Stick with the camera and keep using it and your results will get better with trail and era.

2. you are shooting modern pictures with a vintage camera. Do NOT expect your photos to look vintage at all as they will not.

3. KEEP NOTES. Sunny, cloudy, aperture, shutter speed. All that stuff is important in getting correct exposures.

4. HAVE FUN!!!!!!

Phototone wrote:Your autographic Kodak is a folding camera with a bellows. If it has the original bellows, it is probably gonna have pinhole leaks in the material. This can fog your negatives and give you a false impression of how good the image can ultimately be. There are techniques for sealing up the pinholes.

Freestyle is one of the largest remaining vendors for analog film for film cameras. They are a good company. I would start with one of their private label films, of no more than ISO 100. (to minimize problems with bellows leaks).

Interestingly, the bellows can be fine in older Kodaks (but definitely check!), depending on both age and care (newer ones can be worse than older ones!). I have a Junior Six-20 (c.1935) that has bellows like new. Newer models like the Kodak Monitor are often full of light leaks.

Phototone is correct, ISO 100 is the film to use (mostly for the lack of shutter speeds not bellows problems, which can be fixed), and you can find 120 film from a lot of manufacturers. Freestyle is a good place to look, and also too B&H photo. I'd stick to b/w film, although you might get interesting results with color film with an uncoated lens. It won't be vibrant color, though. I have a Nazi-era Zeiss Nettar, a 120 camera with leather bellows, and it's fun to use.

P.S. to Phototone

Analog film? UGH! It's not analog.

Thanks everyone!

It's going to be quite a learning experience and I will post some results once I get the camera/film and take some shots.

I know the images won't look vintage (that's what photoshop is for), I'm not looking for photos to look vintage, just to see what kind of results and fun I can have shooting with a vintage piece of equipment.

I've got another question, though. Any idea where or what kind of cable release I can use with this? I see one No. 2 on ebay with a cable release for the shutter which might be helpful to me since I will have to keep the camera steady (unless I want to find a tripod for it, which I doubt).
There are a couple of kodak cable release thingie-bops on ebay, but I am not sure if I can use it or if I have to look for another adapter for the shutter mechanism. Any thoughts?

Louie, I am prepared to waste a lot of film!

rudyfan wrote:I've got another question, though. Any idea where or what kind of cable release I can use with this? I see one No. 2 on ebay with a cable release for the shutter which might be helpful to me since I will have to keep the camera steady (unless I want to find a tripod for it, which I doubt).
There are a couple of kodak cable release thingie-bops on ebay, but I am not sure if I can use it or if I have to look for another adapter for the shutter mechanism. Any thoughts?

If I am not mistaken, and it's been about 15 years since I shot with one, but I believe the modern screw in cable release has the same thread as a vintage one. See if you can try one that a friend has or at a store but I believe that was the case.

Louie, I am prepared to waste a lot of film!

Then what are you doing posting on the forum here????
GET OUT THERE AND ENJOY IT!!!

rudyfan wrote:Thanks everyone!

It's going to be quite a learning experience and I will post some results once I get the camera/film and take some shots.

I know the images won't look vintage (that's what photoshop is for), I'm not looking for photos to look vintage, just to see what kind of results and fun I can have shooting with a vintage piece of equipment.

I've got another question, though. Any idea where or what kind of cable release I can use with this? I see one No. 2 on ebay with a cable release for the shutter which might be helpful to me since I will have to keep the camera steady (unless I want to find a tripod for it, which I doubt).
There are a couple of kodak cable release thingie-bops on ebay, but I am not sure if I can use it or if I have to look for another adapter for the shutter mechanism. Any thoughts?

Louie, I am prepared to waste a lot of film!

Rudyfan, what kind of lens and shutter does your Kodak have?

mndean wrote: Rudyfan, what kind of lens and shutter does your Kodak have?

It has a single lens and I have no clue on the shutter. It simply says Kodak ball bearing shutter. None of the photos I've seen of it have the serial number visible or a patent number visible (or clear enough to read).

It's circa 1915-1926 and is a "No. 2 Folding autographic Brownie Camera"

This is it: http://www.brownie-camera.com/83.shtml

LouieD wrote:Then what are you doing posting on the forum here????
GET OUT THERE AND ENJOY IT!!!

I do not have it yet! So plenty of time to continue to post.

Best of luck with the camera, Rudyfan! You'll have fun with it, I'm sure.

I'm not familiar with Kodak ball bearing shutters, but often older shutters become slower than the marked speeds. ISO 100 film would be best, and as mentioned earlier, negative film will be more forgiving in these situations.

The lens was probably not coated for shooting color film, and certainly not coated with today's materials, but far from being a disadvantage, the effect with color film might be quite attractive, if not exactly true. So don't hesitate trying out some color negative film. I've seen some pleasingly vintage looks with such a combination.

If the 120 spools don't fit in the camera and you need 620, here is another resource:

http://www.filmforclassics.com/

Once you acquire a few 620 spools, you can respool your own from 120 film, if you feel confident you have a room dark enough to try it out.

Can't wait to see your results!

I shot some rolls with a larger Autographic. Modern film tends to be a bit faster than these cameras were designed so use a smaller aperture- this will also improve the depth of focus. Seal the Autographic slot from the inside with tape- it won't work without the special Autographic film and is a light leak.

Get a 120 or 620 box camera as well- they're fun and foolproof.

rudyfan wrote:

mndean wrote: Rudyfan, what kind of lens and shutter does your Kodak have?

It has a single lens and I have no clue on the shutter. It simply says Kodak ball bearing shutter. None of the photos I've seen of it have the serial number visible or a patent number visible (or clear enough to read).

It's circa 1915-1926 and is a "No. 2 Folding autographic Brownie Camera"

This is it: http://www.brownie-camera.com/83.shtml

The Kodak ball-bearing shutter is simple and pretty reliable. Don't expect the shutter speeds to be very accurate.

The lens I suppose is an achromatic doublet, cemented so it looks like a single lens. Not so good for color film, but it'll be fine for black/white. That model Brownie also came with a couple of other lenses, but you'd know them as they have more glass i.e. two cemented doublets or three single elements.

This would be a good camera for old-style snapshots, but make sure about distance - these cameras don't have a very close focus range. Also, part of the fun of black/white film is processing it yourself, but that's only if you're like me and enjoy doing it.

FrankFay wrote:I shot some rolls with a larger Autographic. Modern film tends to be a bit faster than these cameras were designed so use a smaller aperture- this will also improve the depth of focus. Seal the Autographic slot from the inside with tape- it won't work without the special Autographic film and is a light leak.

Get a 120 or 620 box camera as well- they're fun and foolproof.

Thanks for the tip on sealing the autographic slot!

I'm still confused about the film to use. If I buy your average b/w ISO 120 roll film from any of the online suppliers, will I have to respool the film onto the spools in the camera? Or will this fit just fine?

Lots of great ideas here! I agree with shooting ISO 100 film for the reasons mentioned - I haven't used a camera of this type and hadn't thought about several of those points.

If the camera uses 120 and not 620, you won't need to respool anything, but you need a takeup spool. Does it already have one inside? If not, a local camera shop might have a spare that they could give you. You don't rewind 120 film, unlike 35mm. Remove the sealing tape on the roll to get it started, then place the full roll into the camera body and insert the leading end into the takeup spool, which will be on the other side of the body. The leading end is narrower; bend the tip slightly and insert the tip onto a slot on the side of the takeup spool. Watch the "start" marks when you roll the leader onto the takeup spool. When you've shot all 8 exposures (it appears that this is a 6x9 model), you remove the now-filled takeup spool, seal the tape provided around the spool, and the now-empty spool that the film came from becomes the new takeup spool. (Put it into the takeup spool position, of course.)

When you load 120 film, it has a paper backing on one side and film/emulsion on the other. Make sure that the paper side is loaded so that it faces the camera back (i.e. not toward the lens), or you'll wind up with a roll of unexposed film.

FrankFay wrote:I shot some rolls with a larger Autographic. Modern film tends to be a bit faster than these cameras were designed so use a smaller aperture- this will also improve the depth of focus. Seal the Autographic slot from the inside with tape- it won't work without the special Autographic film and is a light leak.

Get a 120 or 620 box camera as well- they're fun and foolproof.

Oh! To follow up on Eric's suggestion (I forgot about that Autographic slot - I don't own one with the slot), also stick a piece of black electrician's tape over the red window with one end of the tape folded over so you can peel it back when you wind it, then recover the window after you've wound. Also wind in the shade. The panchromatic films of today are far from red-blind and light can leak there, both through (yes! Ilford used to be the best against that, Kodak the worst but that was back in the early 1990s), and around the film area. Faster films are more vulnerable, but don't take a chance even with 100 speed.

As for 100 speed film, I'd stick to standard emulsion films and not go for the tabular grained ones. The most like the old thick-emulsion films is Efke 100R, made from an old Agfa or Gevaert formula, IIRC. The others are Kodak Plus-X or Ilford FP4+. Rollei has a nice one, but it's expensive. The other brands like Adox or Arista I've not used. You might be able to find some very inexpensive film from China, which would be good for testing the camera.

The films that are tabular grained are Kodax T-Max, Ilford Delta, and Fuji Neopan. Nothing says you can't use them, but they're not as forgiving exposure-wise.

Updates!

I received the camera and it looks to be in really good shape and the bellows light tight. I've got some camera tape on order (Thanks Louie!) to seal off the autographic part.

I picked up a vintage Kodak cable release for the shutter on eBay. Cheap!

12 rolls of 120 film arrived last night. I'm sure I've ruined the first roll just getting it IN the camera. The thing is really tight, had a heck of a time getting theback of the camera off. It was also not easy for me (fumblefingers) to get the spool in line with the winder. I'll be taking the roll of film as soon as I have broad daylight to play in (this weekend) to see if there are other leaks I do not know about.

In any case, should be interesting to see what I do get on the first rolls of film. Plenty of blurry or totally ruined shots, I am sure!

rudyfan wrote:Updates!

I received the camera and it looks to be in really good shape and the bellows light tight. I've got some camera tape on order (Thanks Louie!) to seal off the autographic part.

I picked up a vintage Kodak cable release for the shutter on eBay. Cheap!

12 rolls of 120 film arrived last night. I'm sure I've ruined the first roll just getting it IN the camera. The thing is really tight, had a heck of a time getting theback of the camera off. It was also not easy for me (fumblefingers) to get the spool in line with the winder. I'll be taking the roll of film as soon as I have broad daylight to play in (this weekend) to see if there are other leaks I do not know about.

In any case, should be interesting to see what I do get on the first rolls of film. Plenty of blurry or totally ruined shots, I am sure!

I'm not surprised about the bellows being in good shape, those older Kodaks used bellows material that lasts. Pinhole leaks in the corners of the bellows are the most likely problem you'll run across. BTW, keep the ruined roll of film - it's great for loading practice if you leave the camera unused for awhile. Don't worry about ruined shots - post them on Flickr or likewise and maybe we can find out what went wrong. Sometimes it's not you, it's the camera.

rudyfan wrote: I'm sure I've ruined the first roll just getting it IN the camera. The thing is really tight, had a heck of a time getting theback of the camera off.

I thought you might have this issue which means that the camera is probably a 620 and not 120. I could go on and on about what you could do, but here's a good webpage that does that:

http://www.brownie-camera.com/respool/respool.shtml

If it's really tight going in the camera it may snap when trying to advance the film, as I found out by use. This means you may need to buy some used 620 spools and make sure you get them back when they are processed.

UPDATED OK, so after doing a bit of research on this camera it appears it does take 120 film (duh, should have read above) but it may be tight because the plastic spools they use now have much thicker ends then the steel ones.

LouieD wrote: I thought you might have this issue which means that the camera is probably a 620 and not 120. I could go on and on about what you could do, but here's a good webpage that does that:

http://www.brownie-camera.com/respool/respool.shtml

If it's really tight going in the camera it may snap when trying to advance the film, as I found out by use. This means you may need to buy some used 620 spools and make sure you get them back when they are processed.

UPDATED OK, so after doing a bit of research on this camera it appears it does take 120 film (duh, should have read above) but it may be tight because the plastic spools they use now have much thicker ends then the steel ones.

I should clarify.

Removing the camera box (whatever you call it) from the case was very tight. Getting it back on was a struggle, but i think I've mastered it.

The 120 spool of film and spool in the camera fit fine. Perfect fit. It was my fumblefingers unspooling some of the reel of film onto the winder spool and then trying to get the winder spool into the end with the winder without the roll of film unspooling! I got it, it was a matter of lining it up to snap into place. It will take some practice, lots of practice.

When all is said and done, I think I'm going to need a tripod for this to get any sort of clear shot. The screw holes on the back and side of the camera housing fit my gorillapod tripod. Sadly, the camera is a little too heavy and not centered/balanced for the gorillapod. I will have to get a more sturdy tripod for it. I'm sure there are compact aluminum tripods on ebay. I'll revisit once I get used to the camera and see how the first few rolls of film work out.

I'm also bidding on a few extra spools on ebay and will request the spools back from the film processor.

mndean wrote:I'm not surprised about the bellows being in good shape, those older Kodaks used bellows material that lasts. Pinhole leaks in the corners of the bellows are the most likely problem you'll run across. BTW, keep the ruined roll of film - it's great for loading practice if you leave the camera unused for awhile. Don't worry about ruined shots - post them on Flickr or likewise and maybe we can find out what went wrong. Sometimes it's not you, it's the camera.

That's a great idea, just use this roll for loading practice.

I'll post ruined shots once I get that far. It's all a great experiment. At least I have loads of wonderful scenery to focus on!

Drat, I took 8 junk shots. Unloaded and checked the camera. Bellows is no longer light tight. Pin holes in the corners. Should I be on the prowl for replacement or how does one seal them? the camera tape?

rudyfan wrote:Drat, I took 8 junk shots. Unloaded and checked the camera. Bellows is no longer light tight. Pin holes in the corners. Should I be on the prowl for replacement or how does one seal them? the camera tape?

The camera tape worked fine for me but to make sure, I put the tape on the inside also. Give it a try.

Camera tape can work but with an old bellows pinhole leaks can develop simply from opening and closing them- thus you'll find more with use. You can seal things up with something like acrylic paint but this might mane the bellows too stiff to close properly, and they might crack if you do so. You could try wrapping the bellows with some opaque cloth.

Don't be afraid to experiment, these cameras aren't rare or valuable.

I can say I had some of the photographers tape on my bellows while using the camera off and on for over 5 years and never had a problem with the bellows becoming stiff or the tape falling off.

rudyfan wrote:Drat, I took 8 junk shots. Unloaded and checked the camera. Bellows is no longer light tight. Pin holes in the corners. Should I be on the prowl for replacement or how does one seal them? the camera tape?

A replacement bellows is a long shot, they occasionally pop up on ebay, but then you're stuck with having to remove and replace the bellows. Most have been sold years ago, so I wouldn't pin any hopes on it.

To repair pinholes, you can use either liquid tape or acrylic paint if they're truly pinhole leaks in the corners of the bellows. Use a small flashlight from inside the extended bellows in a dim room to see all the pinholes both before and after repair. Then take it outside look through the bellows from the inside and see if you need to do more. Darn, I only live ~100 miles away from you, and I'd take a whack at it but unfortunately I'm not headed toward the coast anytime soon. Of course, any repair may lose you the ability to fold the camera back up. Frankly, I'd give you my Junior Six-20 (all it does is sit in a drawer), except it uses 620 spools which you'd have to reroll the 120 film onto. It's not the hardest job, but it requires a darkroom, patience, and some fairly easily acquired skill. Here's a link to one similar to mine, although mine is a little bit older:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/captkodak/271885572/

I used to repair my old camera bellows with book binding leather patches. Book binding leather is thin and flexible and folds well to get into the nooks and corners. Works very well with contact adhesive. Leather and book binding merchants should stock it. And don't forget to lightly treat the bellows with boot oil once in a while to stop them drying out and cracking.

Also add a little matched colour shoe polish to clean up the outside scuffed areas. Should then look and work like new. The only reason why old camera bellows fail is because people don't treat the leather or duck and let it dry out.

Changsham wrote:I used to repair my old camera bellows with book binding leather patches. Book binding leather is thin and flexible and folds well to get into the nooks and corners. Works very well with contact adhesive. Leather and book binding merchants should stock it. And don't forget to lightly treat the bellows with boot oil once in a while to stop them drying out and cracking.

Also add a little matched colour shoe polish to clean up the outside scuffed areas. Should then look and work like new. The only reason why old camera bellows fail is because people don't treat the leather or duck and let it dry out.

I'll add a warning to your otherwise excellent repair/maintenance advice:

Sometimes the "leather" isn't leather at all and no oils should be used for treatment of it. Certain Agfa/Ansco and Kodak model camera bellows (among other manufacturers) are most notorious for having used something other than leather. The otherwise excellent Kodak Monitor cameras are enough of a gamble as regards their bellows, I won't spend what a collector will simply because it may not be usable without much work, and I use my old cameras and hate having them on a bench for repair for long periods. Treated paper embossed to look like leather has even been used in some low-cost camera bellows. I know of a seller on that auction site who will sell a folder that is fully restored (and you will pay a commensurate price), and although I haven't had dealings with him (I prefer DIY) he's highly respected for his work. I will not name him as I doubt many if any here are interested.

mndean wrote:

Changsham wrote:I used to repair my old camera bellows with book binding leather patches. Book binding leather is thin and flexible and folds well to get into the nooks and corners. Works very well with contact adhesive. Leather and book binding merchants should stock it. And don't forget to lightly treat the bellows with boot oil once in a while to stop them drying out and cracking.

Also add a little matched colour shoe polish to clean up the outside scuffed areas. Should then look and work like new. The only reason why old camera bellows fail is because people don't treat the leather or duck and let it dry out.

I'll add a warning to your otherwise excellent repair/maintenance advice:

Sometimes the "leather" isn't leather at all and no oils should be used for treatment of it. Certain Agfa/Ansco and Kodak model camera bellows (among other manufacturers) are most notorious for having used something other than leather. The otherwise excellent Kodak Monitor cameras are enough of a gamble as regards their bellows, I won't spend what a collector will simply because it may not be usable without much work, and I use my old cameras and hate having them on a bench for repair for long periods. Treated paper embossed to look like leather has even been used in some low-cost camera bellows. I know of a seller on that auction site who will sell a folder that is fully restored (and you will pay a commensurate price), and although I haven't had dealings with him (I prefer DIY) he's highly respected for his work. I will not name him as I doubt many if any here are interested.

True, some usually simpler cameras has paper or coated (duck) cloth bellows. Good quality cameras like Zeiss Ikon etc which are still highly usable matched high quality lenses with leather bellows.