THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

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bigshot
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by bigshot » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:14 am

The Lost World is a public domain film. https://archive.org/details/CopyrightSe ... tWorld1925" target="_blank

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by WaverBoy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:52 am

Great Hierophant wrote:
All Darc wrote:
I stopped watching soon after he said "The Lost World is a Public Domain film, there's no copyright laws attached to it, which is perfect so I can have it on my channel." I despise such arrogant prigs who assume that everything connected with a silent film is in the public domain. I'm also not fond of off the cuff, extemporaneous commentaries on films in general.
I wouldn't call him an arrogant prig. First, he's correct; it's a PD film. Second, I don't see where he assumes that everything connected with silent films is PD. However, I can't argue with your statement re: off-the cuff commentaries.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by FlickerAlley » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:29 am

All Darc wrote:May I suggest a special dedicatory to David Shepard in this edition?
FlickerAlley wrote:We are currently working on the release of Lobster Films' restoration on Blu-ray.
Thanks for the lovely suggestion. We are dedicating all of David's final produced works to him. You will see a dedication on the back cover of our next release. Thanks again.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by All Darc » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:38 pm

http://silentmoviemonsters.tripod.com/T ... ATION.html" target="_blank

Not sure from when is this article.
Keep thinking...

Image

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Great Hierophant » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:41 pm

WaverBoy wrote:
Great Hierophant wrote:
All Darc wrote:
I stopped watching soon after he said "The Lost World is a Public Domain film, there's no copyright laws attached to it, which is perfect so I can have it on my channel." I despise such arrogant prigs who assume that everything connected with a silent film is in the public domain. I'm also not fond of off the cuff, extemporaneous commentaries on films in general.
I wouldn't call him an arrogant prig. First, he's correct; it's a PD film. Second, I don't see where he assumes that everything connected with silent films is PD. However, I can't argue with your statement re: off-the cuff commentaries.
If he were showing the old hour-long print that has been around since 1929, I would agree. That thing is in the public domain. However, a reconstruction of the film that hails from the late 20th century may not be in the public domain. The score attached to it is definitely not PD. The editorial work that went into these reconstructions by the GEH and DS, separately, is well-documented in the article All Darc linked. I might suggest this article as well : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/201 ... omain.html" target="_blank

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bigshot
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by bigshot » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:58 pm

Restoration is not copyrightable. Newly created derivative works are. If they are still calling it "The Lost World" and dating it 1925 I would say that they are admitting that it isn't a new work, but just a restoration. Scores are copyrightable. But they could take a score off and put another on and it would be fine.

Works in the public domain belong to everyone. We can republish them, create new works based on them and share them for free. When something is old enough to become part of the history of our culture, the creator is honored by having his work gifted to the world.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Mark Zimmer » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:09 am

So how close are we to a complete LOST WORLD now? It seems like it has nearly doubled in length from various sources compared to what it used to be (though I suppose some of that is film speed variance), so it has to be getting pretty close.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by R. Cat » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:13 pm

bigshot wrote:Restoration is not copyrightable. Newly created derivative works are. If they are still calling it "The Lost World" and dating it 1925 I would say that they are admitting that it isn't a new work, but just a restoration. Scores are copyrightable. But they could take a score off and put another on and it would be fine.

Works in the public domain belong to everyone. We can republish them, create new works based on them and share them for free. When something is old enough to become part of the history of our culture, the creator is honored by having his work gifted to the world.
I firmly believe that there is a blind spot in copyright law that could be addressed by introducing limited rights ownership to properties lapsing into the PD. Thoughtful legal minds would carve out a special class of shorter term rights control that benefits both entrepreneurs and the greater public interest. The goal would be to encourage studios to locate, restore and release archived films long out of public view while providing a status, protections and financial opportunities for individual entrepreneurs acquiring films that have already fallen into PD.

In respect to film the goal should always be long term preservation and greater public access. What we currently have are a hodge-podge of arcane laws that sunset rights in a random manner in spite of a dilineated time frame. The problem is this: if rights lapse into public domain, what rationale is there for studios holding archival prints and negatives of public interest to spend a penny on restoration, much less release quality versions when they can be legally copied and distributed by back-yard entrepreneurs for modest investment?

Keep in mind that I'm 100% in support of entrepreneurs running Kickstarter projects funding modest restorations of orphaned films with the goal of providing video releases to get films back in front of the public. These individual efforts fulfill a need that many studios and distributors won't embark on due to the cost and limited marketability or can't accomplish due to lack of suitable film elements.

Nevertheless, the PD wasteland provides too many opportunities for bargain basement operations to exploit the public and dampen interest in quality. Distributors like Alpha Video, et. al, may satisfy a market hungry for low cost entertainment, but the antiquated public domain laws that enable poor quality copies also reduce the already limited market share while threatening future restorations.

Before anyone asks, no ...I'm not a copyright attorney, and sorry 'bout getting a bit off topic. Then again, we are discussing the lost world. :wink:

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Mark Zimmer » Wed May 31, 2017 10:23 am

Flicker Alley website showing a September 12, 2017 release date in their slider, but no additional details (the preorder page is currently empty).

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by silentfilm » Wed May 31, 2017 11:04 am

https://prod3.agileticketing.net/websal ... 224f26742&

It is screening at the San Francisco Silent Film Festival this weekend...

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by bigshot » Wed May 31, 2017 12:05 pm

All I can say is that I'm happy The Lost World is PD. Because if it wasn't, Lobster Films would have never restored it and Flicker Alley would probably not be releasing it. Most of the earliest movies survive simply because they were PD and individuals could rescue them when the studios had no interest in them. Ownership doesn't guarantee that something is going to get distributed. In fact, in many cases, the fact that titles are owned by a copyright holder who doesn't care about them is a curse.

PD isn't a wasteland. It's given us archive.org, David Shepard and the novels that many famous movies have been based on. PD is our culture.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Bob Furem » Wed May 31, 2017 12:13 pm

http://flickeralley.com" target="_blank Available for pre-order now. Free shipping next 24 hours. I believe it is blu-ray only.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Scoundrel » Wed May 31, 2017 1:20 pm

I'm all for more footage but if this still has the PC intertitles, i'll pass.
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by s.w.a.c. » Wed May 31, 2017 1:21 pm

Sample clip from Flicker Alley ... with Hanschleigel colour shot!

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by oldposterho » Wed May 31, 2017 1:27 pm

OK, that, despite the rastafarian dinosaur, looks fantastic and the score is super primo. Looks like this is the one to have.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by camaro » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:52 am

I see one of the extra's is The Ghost of Slumber Mountain and it has been restored as well. I don't suppose any of the missing footage has been found for it?

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by R. Cat » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:52 pm

Bob Furem wrote:http://flickeralley.com" target="_blank Available for pre-order now. Free shipping next 24 hours. I believe it is blu-ray only.
Thanks for the heads-up. Order placed. Robert Israel orchestral score, 2K transfer, rediscovered footage, loaded up with extras. Looks like an all'round winner from Flicker Alley.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Battra92 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:52 pm

Scoundrel wrote:I'm all for more footage but if this still has the PC intertitles, i'll pass.
Were the intertitles made on a computer or something? I'm confused.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Harold Aherne » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:02 pm

Battra92 wrote:
Scoundrel wrote:I'm all for more footage but if this still has the PC intertitles, i'll pass.
Were the intertitles made on a computer or something? I'm confused.
Politically correct.

In the original novel, Zambo is South American. The title cards of the film, at least of the Kodascope, rendered his speech not with an accent but with a stereotypical transcription of English often used to depict African-Americans.

An example of an original title card:
"Jocko goin' be mighty lonesome down here wifout Miss Paula -- he climb dat big rock dis mo'nin' to git to her -- he cain't bear dat girl outen his sight!"
In the 2001 restoration:
"Jocko will be mighty lonesome down here without Miss Paula -- he climbed that big rock this morning to get to her -- he can't bear that girl out of his sight!"
On alt.movies.silent, Mr. Shepard explained that altering the title cards was one editorial choice of many he made to restore the film (partially, and without a guide to indicate exactly what went in which spot). Further discussion can be found by searching AMS on Google Groups.

Subtitles are, for me, one of the real pleasures of silent films. It's fun to see the graphic designs, lettering and writing in use during the period, and I think original titles should always be incorporated when they exist. Where they don't exist, I think it's important that their content and lettering should be as close to the period/studio as can reasonably be achieved. Ergo, while I think it's fine to clean up debris or decomp from titles, I would not alter the speech contained in an original domestic edit (or portions of an edit).

The changes in Zambo's speech don't drastically alter the film (far less than cutting it to Kodascope length!), and it would be a shame for the issue to get so contentious that people won't buy this or that edition.

-HA
Last edited by Harold Aherne on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Paul Penna » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:16 pm

This thread on the Classic Horror Film Board covers a lot of the issues about the various versions, restorations and recreations of the film as well as the titles. Contributors include Tom Weaver and Jack Theakston, both of whom talked with David Shepard:

http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuk ... TDzGHBHarU

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Scoundrel » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:26 am

http://www.silentera.com/video/lostWorl ... #Image2001

FWIW, I have pre ordered the Blu ray.
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by mwalls » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:09 pm

Scoundrel wrote:http://www.silentera.com/video/lostWorl ... #Image2001

FWIW, I have pre ordered the Blu ray.

Me too. I have never seen any version of the film. This will be quite a treat.

Matthew

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by wich2 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:25 am

Matthew, it's like PHANTOM OF THE OPERA -

- it's not a Great Film, but it's certainly a legendary, enjoyable film.

-Crig

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:35 am

I'm not buying it unless the dinosaurs talk like they went to Oxford.
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by bigshot » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:52 am

My favorite line in Gone With The Wind is, "I'm ill informed on the fine art of the parturience of newborn wee bairns."

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Brooksie » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:56 pm

This went over a treat at the SFSFF. I know the Alloy Orchestra can be divisive, but they knocked the accompaniment out of the ballpark, and the restoration really is the closest we'll see to the original film.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Rodney » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:21 am

The non-PC original titles are there for Zambo, for those who want them. I suspect that more footage of him is still missing: he suddenly appears rather late in the story, with a broken arm (which I believe is from an episode in the novel). That said, there is more footage than I've seen before, including a fair amount more of the love triangle. More Bessie Love is good. And the story makes more sense. The tinted color and hand-color was startling and effective.
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by scallenger » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:29 am

Would love to hear more details of the new material and more overall thoughts from people at the screening! :D By the way, why would the Alloy Orchestra do the screening when they won't have a score track on the Blu this time? I remember they originally wanted to have both, just like last time for the 2000 DVD.

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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Rodney » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:57 am

scallenger wrote:Why would the Alloy Orchestra do the screening when they won't have a score track on the Blu this time? I remember they originally wanted to have both, just like last time for the 2000 DVD.
I'm sure that the BluRay was not a consideration with this performance. Remember that Alloy is primarily a live-performance orchestra, so being on the BluRay would be a nice bonus but is beside the point -- the premiere show at the Castro was the point. I'm sure you'll be seeing this title on tour with them as well.

It's a good business model: live performances tend to generate more income than recordings in this day and age. I fear we'll be seeing fewer multiple-score silent films if home video sales continue to fall.

I heard from Ken that they worked closely with David Shepard on this title in the past, and wanted to answer some of his comments on their previous score by making a major update to it, along with the updated film.

Also, since they were in San Francisco to do the newly discovered Page of Madness anyway, it made sense for them to accompany multiple screenings, especially when there was another film being shown that they are so excellently suited for.

I enjoyed the whole performance: the music was well suited to the action and quite stirring, and I thought that the dinosaur and volcano noises (especially those made by the stricken brontosaurus) were absolutely perfect, adding much to the fun.

Full disclosure: Alloy kindly loaned me a four-foot long pipe for our score for Silence, since I couldn't fit mine in checked luggage. It worked beautifully for the Foley-heavy beginning to that score.
Rodney Sauer
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Re: THE LOST WORLD (1925) - new restoration?

Unread post by Jeff Rapsis » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:43 pm

Rodney wrote:Full disclosure: Alloy kindly loaned me a four-foot long pipe for our score for Silence, since I couldn't fit mine in checked luggage. It worked beautifully for the Foley-heavy beginning to that score.
That's one of the great things about Ken Winokur and Alloy: their generosity to other musicians! Last year, Ken loaned me an authentic boxing bell for several screenings of 'Battling Butler.' I was literally saved by the bell!
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