A TRIP TO THE MOON (1902)

[drednm]

If the color version of the film HAD had the choice of music tracks, I wonder which, in the secret darkness of our viewing rooms, would have been selected by more silent film buffs: Air or Israel.

I think I know the answer.

[Rodney]

If the color version of the film HAD had the choice of music tracks, I wonder which, in the secret darkness of our viewing rooms, would have been selected by more silent film buffs: Air or Israel.

I think I know the answer.

And had Serge Bromberg approached both the silent film buffs and Groupama Gan Foundation for $500,000 for the restoration effort, which would have provided a check?

I think I know the answer to that too.

(Film buffs, you've got a traditional score on the other disc, and myriad other scores on myriad other releases. If music is more important than image quality, you know what to do.)

I saw the restored A Trip to the Moon on Sunday at the TCM Festival. The score actually works pretty well. If you haven't heard the score yet, you should know that claims here that "I doubt it was scored to picture at all" are simply ludicrous. It tracks the film scene by scene, making appropriate changes in tone. The backing rhythms and vertical chord chops during the opening astrologers' discussion and the fight with the Selenites are appropriately tense and exciting, the idyll in the middle with the astronomers dreaming of stars with girls' faces appropriately lyrical. The biggest failing may be a short sequence of crowd noise, where a misguided attempt to "play to the action" abandons the purely musical approach of the rest of the score. Do I prefer more historically informed scores? Sure. Should the composers have "caught" trumpet fanfares and other on-screen action? I would have given it a shot if it were me. Is it offensive? Nope. Does it track better than random Saint-Saëns compositions? Yep. Would Georges Melies have approved if he were around today? As Serge Bromberg has pointed out, if Melies were here today he would have wanted to remake the film using 3-D, digital effects, and whatever music is most current!

In my opinion, the biggest problem is not the score -- it's the omission of narration. It's a bit much to ask that a 1902 film clearly communicate its plot with neither intertitles nor narration. How many modern audiences know what's happening in the scene of the gun being cast in a massive underground foundry?

I had a chat over breakfast with Serge yesterday before we left LA, and the exclusivity of the Air score came up. He was not party to the original negotiations, though he did his best to have them toned down -- and after hearing his tale, all I can say is "count your blessings." If some of the self-proclaimed film buffs here had been involved in the negotiations, and stuck to their guns about the musical score or the cover art or who knows what, the only surviving hand-colored print of A Trip to the Moon would be a large paperweight by now. We'd all be wondering what would have happened if a sensible person had been in charge, and made the necessary compromises on the ephemera for the greater goal of getting the film chipped apart, photographed, restored, and available to anyone who wants to see it on Blu-Ray. It was a herculean effort, and my congratulations to Serge, Technicolor, the Groupama Gan Foundation, and yes, even Air.

[drednm]

Rodney.... no one doubts the efforts taken to put this together, and I'm not sorry I bought it.

Perhaps if the Israel score had not been available on the B&W as an alternative, there would have been fewer gripes ... perhaps not.

[fwtep]

And had Serge Bromberg approached both the silent film buffs and Groupama Gan Foundation for $500,000 for the restoration effort, which would have provided a check?

I think I know the answer to that too.

Would the money have NOT been available if Serge Bromberg said "Hey, I'd like to provide an alternate audio track on the home version"?

[Rodney]

And had Serge Bromberg approached both the silent film buffs and Groupama Gan Foundation for $500,000 for the restoration effort, which would have provided a check?

I think I know the answer to that too.

Would the money have NOT been available if Serge Bromberg said "Hey, I'd like to provide an alternate audio track on the home version"?

Yes. Otherwise he would have.

[drednm]

Well fine. I didn't pitch a fit over the music track; I just didn't like it. Everything else about the DVD is exceptional, from the packaging to the booklet. The amount of work for the restoration is mind boggling, and my hat is permanently off to all involved in the work it takes to get these rare films restored and out to the public.

[frankebe]

I really am surprised how many people find Air’s music so repulsive. I agree with Rodney. Air made some miscalculations with the soundtrack, but overall I rather like it: the grandiose music for the astronomers gathering in The Great Hall (timed to fit the strides of the very female “manservants”); the anvil-music for the workshop; the pensive moonlanding (looking back at Earth, with no concept of return); the other-worldly dream music for the sleeping scene; the aliens-and-chase music… I even enjoy President Barbenfouillis’ Popeye-style mumbling.

Fans of Air have been reading about Melies and buying the Air-cd-and-dvd of the expanded soundtrack-and-movie (see “Air, Trip to the Moon” on Amazon.com, guardian.co.uk, and elsewhere); so appealing to at least a select-youngish audience through the music seems to have worked, to, well, whatever degree.

I do agree that offering a second soundtrack would have been ideal. However, offering the B&W version of the film with the other soundtracks was a reasonable option, and I can’t complain about it. I just wish the Israel soundtrack-with-narration on the dvd version was in sync with the picture. (It seems ahead of the sound by almost 2 seconds; but I’m the only one who notices off-sync sound, so don’t mind me. Anyway, I have the "Wizard..." set.)

Including the B&W version in this release was good for other reasons: not everyone has any other iteration of this movie, and the B&W has its own treats. Aside from the alternate soundtracks, you can watch the first two scenes without poking your eyes out. Also, the B&W print on the blu-ray and even on the dvd has a sharper image with clearer details than the color version or the print on the “Georges Melies: First Wizard…” compilation. Now you can finally clearly see the actor’s expressions despite Melies’ continuous extreme long shots. (However, even though it’s a little blurrier, I prefer the “Wizard” version for overall entertainment and to show to friends, because Mr. Shepard’s team did such a GREAT job of reducing speckles and stabilizing the image [jitter drives me nutz]. But for study-purpose, I do watch the blu-ray B&W just to pick out details.)

As far as the $30 pricetag: I have already watched these discs more than any other disc I have ever owned. Way, way, WAY more! Something always occurs to me that I want to check out in color or high-definition, so then I watch the movie AGAIN. This has happens almost daily (yes, I admit it: I need major tranquillizers). I would have paid twice the amount for this release. In fact, I bought the dvd from the Air-edition back in the fall, and then I bought the Steelbook from Flicker Alley, sooo...

[Doug Sulpy]

What an insightful thread.

I've learned that "self-proclaimed" film buffs want to destroy priceless film footage by expressing their desire to have a more traditional score to a silent film release.

I've learned that anyone who expresses their dislike of modern scores is a member of "bitch & moan, inc.."

I've learned that unless you're French and have deep pockets, your opinion means nothing, and you might as well just shut up.

[Rodney]

Well fine. I didn't pitch a fit over the music track; I just didn't like it.

Sorry, Ed. It was a mistake for me to set up my latest response as a response to your post, as you didn't give the offense I'm primarily objecting to in this thread: a seeming unwillingness to admit that those who worked on this release could possibly have had good intentions.

I did get a bit of a laugh from Big Shot complaining that Air must have "cobbled together" the score from pre-existing work. While that's not what Air did, it's a great description of what Robert Israel and I do in the type of score Big Shot apparently prefers.

[drednm]

Rodney...I didn't think you aimed at me.

I started this thread because I was excited about the project. I was a little surprised that some reactions to the music were so strongly negative, but hey, to each his own.

Bottom line: this is a must-see film.

[bigshot]

Playing a record over a silent film is not the same as a score created by a musician designed to set the moods, hit all the accents and support the action. We went through the VHS era subjected to syncless Jelly Roll Morton and Bruckner records acting as sonic wallpaper because we had no choice. Today, we have the ability to use 5:1 surround sound and alternate tracks. There is absolutely no excuse for not providing a decent track. There are a lot of great classic tracks by organ accompaniests as well as talented musicians who have made a specialty of creating live musical accompaniment for silents. There's no reason to use amateurs like Air or to expect us to fly in our own soundtrack.

If video companies and restorers are actually concerned about making sure a new generation learns to love and appreciate silent film, the first thing they should do is insure the films get a good sonic presentation.

[bigshot]

you should know that claims here that "I doubt it was scored to picture at all" are simply ludicrous. It tracks the film scene by scene, making appropriate changes in tone. The backing rhythms and vertical chord chops during the opening astrologers' discussion and the fight with the Selenites are appropriately tense and exciting, the idyll in the middle with the astronomers dreaming of stars with girls' faces appropriately lyrical. The biggest failing may be a short sequence of crowd noise, where a misguided attempt to "play to the action" abandons the purely musical approach of the rest of the score.

Finally! Someone is actually referring to specifics in the Air track, instead of just saying "some people like it"!

The changes in tones from sequence to sequence are not a part of the score. It's mechanical editing from cut to cut. They appear to have chosen a prerecorded track and just wilded it in, fading out at the end of the sequence to start over again for the next sequence. I've cut library music for TV, and I wouldn't have kept my job for a minute if I delivered lazy music editing like that.

Compare Israel's first sequence to Air's. Israel finds a wealth of rhythmic acccents to the bustling of the astronomers that Air shlurps right on over.

The astronomer's dream is appropriately dreamy. The build up to firing the cannon is dreamy too. The chase scene with the aliens is dreamy. And the celebratory dancing at the end is dreamy. The whole thing is uniformly dreamy.

Air finds one accent in the entire picture... The hammering in the second sequence. Other than that, there isn't a link between the sound and what is going on up on the screen. We have ceremonial events leading up to a countdown and firing of the cannon. Israel does a great job of creating excitement here, just as he does with the chase scene of the travellers making a run for escape from the aliens. He also provides appropriate dance music at the end and a proper ending that doesn't leave it hanging like the film just ran off the end of the reel unexpectedly. air hits none of these obvious marks.

The Israel score also incorporates Melies's narration. Air replaces that with some distracting mumble and crowd walla. Bromberg's heavily accented narration is one of the joys of the Flicker Alley DVD set. It belongs on the film regardless of what music is used.

I know exactly what Air is trying to do. They're taking a little bit of retro 70s Tangerine Dream synth sounds and mix it with a little tongue in cheek pretension lifted out of The Residents' Mole Show. I'm sure in the proper context, their music is very nice. But to serve the purpose here, it has to follow and support the action. It just doesn't do that, or even attempt to for that matter.

[drednm]

All well and good, but you're quoting from something I didn't write....

[bigshot]

It was a mistake for me to set up my latest response as a response to your post, as you didn't give the offense I'm primarily objecting to in this thread: a seeming unwillingness to admit that those who worked on this release could possibly have had good intentions.

I have always criticized the people responsible for deciding to include Air's soundtrack exclusive of any alternative. I haven't criticized those who had no choice but to abide by it. If there was no way around it, so be it. But that doesn't mean that I can't express my frustration with the big fat mustache that has been painted on the Mona Lisa.

Part of the reason behind my frustration is the years and years I was saddled with a horrible soundtrack on one of my favorite films... Sherlock Jr. Every time I watched it, it made me angry. We don't often get second cracks at silent films. Once a restored version is released, it's going to be a decade or more until a video company can revisit it. Having important releases marred by unnecessary executive meddling is a bloody shame. I don't owe the execs any gratitude for giving me $500 grand, so I feel free to call a spade a spade.

[bigshot]

I did get a bit of a laugh from Big Shot complaining that Air must have "cobbled together" the score from pre-existing work. While that's not what Air did, it's a great description of what Robert Israel and I do in the type of score Big Shot apparently prefers.

Your tracks are not scored to picture?

[Micromegas]

Well, not being overly fond of the AIR soundtrack, I'd have welcomed an alternate track.

But, forget about personal preferences, grants, whether Flicker Alley could've sold more copies and all of that.

If - by continuing to ride the wave of Hugo and The Artist - the AIR music even slightly expands the trickle of new silent film enthusiasts (and given AIR's conditions were to be the exclusive track)....well, then I guess that I can live with that.

Steve (who was pretty much introduced to silent film thru, "gasp", Moroder's Metropolis)

[Christopher Jacobs]

Steve (who was pretty much introduced to silent film thru, "gasp", Moroder's Metropolis)

Speaking of which, Kino is currently having a sale on Moroder's METROPOLIS -- only $9.99 for the DVD, and a bargain $14.99 for the Blu-ray! They even have it bundled with the newest restoration at $34.99 for both Blu-ray editions of METROPOLIS, which is cheaper than the list price of the restoration alone and a mere $7 more than the current sale price of just the new restoration. (This should probably be in the thread about movie deals, but seemed logical to put here.)

[Doug Sulpy]

If - by continuing to ride the wave of Hugo and The Artist - the AIR music even slightly expands the trickle of new silent film enthusiasts (and given AIR's conditions were to be the exclusive track)....well, then I guess that I can live with that.

Well, let me go back to my original example, then.

What if they put Lady Gaga (or Justin Bieber, or whatever other crap young people listen to these days) over the films? Is that okay? And why stop there? Why not colorize some Chaplin Mutuals. After all, young people were brought up watching color movies and surely that would appeal to them. But why stop THERE? Really. Isn't colorized, 3D AND with a "modern" score the way "The Big Parade" really deserves to be seen?

Shudder.

Yeah. I'm hopelessly old fashioned, I know. .

(By the way... funny someone mentioned The Residents' "Mole Show," I remember throwing away the Moroder score for "Metropolis" years ago, before anything ELSE was available, and tossing some German electronica and "Mole Show" over it. It worked well, if I remember correctly!).

[Micromegas]

If - by continuing to ride the wave of Hugo and The Artist - the AIR music even slightly expands the trickle of new silent film enthusiasts (and given AIR's conditions were to be the exclusive track)....well, then I guess that I can live with that.

Well, let me go back to my original example, then.

What if they put Lady Gaga (or Justin Bieber, or whatever other crap young people listen to these days) over the films? Is that okay? And why stop there? Why not colorize some Chaplin Mutuals. After all, young people were brought up watching color movies and surely that would appeal to them. But why stop THERE? Really. Isn't colorized, 3D AND with a "modern" score the way "The Big Parade" really deserves to be seen?

Shudder.

Yeah. I'm hopelessly old fashioned, I know. .

(By the way... funny someone mentioned The Residents' "Mole Show," I remember throwing away the Moroder score for "Metropolis" years ago, before anything ELSE was available, and tossing some German electronica and "Mole Show" over it. It worked well, if I remember correctly!).

There's not really any more ground to cover on this especially with all the "ifs" involved in my points, yours and others. I made a personal assertion. I will - by way of conversation - make another in that I materially agree with Rodney when he says:

"I do agree with you that I find historically-based music more appropriate for the vast majority of silent films, especially those that are clearly set in their time. I also have issues with the Air score for A Trip to the Moon. But I also believe that if you put a modern score to a silent film, there's no vandalism being done; just choices being made in legitimate areas of artistic taste ."

Steve

[zootmoney]

OK- I need some advice/help. I pre-ordered this on 03/06. I still have not received it. I emailed Flicker Alley over the weekend, to confirm that my order was sent. They responded with the tracking number, which shows the package as delivered on 03/26. I responded that it had not been delivered to me. Their response:

"We are sorry to hear that you did not receive your order. Again, we can verify that it was sent and delivered to the address below."

Obviously, I did not get it, or I would not be contacting them. I also realize that it is not Flicker Alley's fault, since I confirmed that the address they that have for me is correct. However, it would not be the first time the post office delivered a package to the wrong address. Also, about 5 years ago, at a different address, the maillady scanned all of her mail as delivered at 7:30AM, 3 hours before leaving the depot, leaving her mail in a pile. It took about 2 weeks for someone to find it. I am assuming this is a postal issue. One thing I learned from that incident is that the sender has to report the item as lost/missing.

I responded to their second email assuring them that the package was not delivered to me. I have not heard back.

[WaverBoy]

There's not really any more ground to cover on this especially with all the "ifs" involved in my points, yours and others. I made a personal assertion. I will - by way of conversation - make another in that I materially agree with Rodney when he says:

"I do agree with you that I find historically-based music more appropriate for the vast majority of silent films, especially those that are clearly set in their time. I also have issues with the Air score for A Trip to the Moon. But I also believe that if you put a modern score to a silent film, there's no vandalism being done; just choices being made in legitimate areas of artistic taste ."

Steve

That's all very well and good, IF an alternate score choice is available that doesn't sound like a needle-drop Pink Floyd knock-off.

A buddy of mine brought this over last night, and now I can safely say that the horrendously miscast AIR has now joined the sorry ranks of Michael Polher and Maria Newman as one of the worst silent film accompanists in history. Their "score" nearly makes me appreciate Clubfoot's SHERLOCK score in a whole new light. Yes, fans, it really is that bad, and it's a shame that such a lovely and mind-bogglingly expensive and difficult restoration by Bromberg & Co. was so aurally desecrated by money men with apparently no idea of what makes a good (or even remotely competent) silent film score. And it's not just the style; I probably could have lived with it if it actually made a decent stab at complementing the onscreen action, but it doesn't, apart from getting faster and more guitarry and drummy when there's action, and less so when there's not. Absolutely rock-bottom. Visually, the restoration is astounding. Just turn the sound off if you want some hair left on your head by the time it's over. For all the grief that the poor Alloy Orchestra gets (and I'm actually fine with much of their stuff, if not in love with it), they're waaaaaaaaaaaay better than this.

I'm gonna save my Flicker Alley money for a couple of their other releases I haven't picked up yet, and pray that the color restoration of A TRIP TO THE MOON will be unshackled from its aural prison at some point and get hitched to the Israel score with Melies' narration, lovingly read by the good Mr. Bromberg.

[entredeuxguerres]

the sorry ranks of Michael Polher and Maria Newman as one of the worst silent film accompanists in history.

You omitted Vivak Maddalla (of Mysterious Lady notoriety).

[bigshot]

The films on Flicker Alley's DVD Melies sets look just about as good as the bluray and they have uniformly good soundtracks. I would recommend them over the bluray. The money goes to the same people (minus Air).

[bigshot]

I just read over at bluray.com that Flicker Alley is going to charge postage and handling to get a replacement disk for their error on the soundtrack on the B&W version of A Trip to the Moon. They admit it's their mistake and they're shipping sets with the error, but they think customers should pay anyway.

[Christopher Jacobs]

Blu-ray.com now has its review of Flicker Alley's Blu-ray of A TRIP TO THE MOON up on its site at
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/A-Trip-to ... 93/#Review" target="_blank

It's one of the few reviews that I've seen them give a straight 5 out of 5 rating for all five of their categories: Movie, Video, Audio, Extras, and Overall rating. This critic (who is noted especially for reviewing a wide variety of foreign films and classics from all eras) liked all three scores on the film. In his concluding paragraph he states "Flicker Alley's Blu-ray release of Georges Melies' legendary film A Trip to the Moon is, hands down, the most incredible release to reach my desk since the high-definition format was launched."

I'll probably order the disc soon, and I'm rather hoping the Blu-ray will be one of those with NO narration over the Robert Israel score, as I'd rather prepare a typed script and have live narration when showing it to people (as it was done at the Cinefest last month). Since this set comes with both Blu-ray and DVD, and the DVD version apparently does include the narration, I can still hear the pre-recorded voice if I really want to, and it shouldn't be all that much trouble, probably just switching my Blu-ray player's HDMI cable from the amplifier directly to the projector, to play the audio from the DVD (any of the 3 track options on the B&W version) at the same time I'm watching the picture from the color version on the Blu-ray.

[bigshot]

Buy a second player and repatch your home theater to get the correct sound? You're dedicated!

I remember when I was in college and I got the laserdisc of Brian Eno's Thursday Afternoon. The liner notes said it had been composed for a vertical format, so I should turn my TV set so it's standing on its left side. Uh... No. I ended up watching it laying on my side on the couch.

[entredeuxguerres]

Buy a second player and repatch your home theater to get the correct sound? You're dedicated!

As are those who blithely advise, "record your own soundtrack," if you don't care for the recorded score. Good advice, if you possess professional level skills, or are satisfied with a cob-job; better yet, write & perform your own compositions, as Rodney does! I'm willing to uncork my own bottle, but the rest of the job rightfully falls on the producer.

[rudyfan]

I've had mine sitting on my desk for a week now, I need to uncork it this weekend. It's got so much good stuff in it and I'm looking forward to seeing the magic unfold.

Truth be told, I've simply enjoyed it propped up on my desk admiring how pretty the art and case is. Yeah, I'm that shallow.

[Christopher Jacobs]

Buy a second player and repatch your home theater to get the correct sound? You're dedicated!

As are those who blithely advise, "record your own soundtrack," if you don't care for the recorded score. Good advice, if you possess professional level skills, or are satisfied with a cob-job; better yet, write & perform your own compositions, as Rodney does! I'm willing to uncork my own bottle, but the rest of the job rightfully falls on the producer.

Well, while Blu-ray players can still be a notable investment, most people with Blu-ray players already have a DVD player or two around the house just begging to be used to play alternate scores. If not, a brand-new DVD player typically costs less than a new Criterion or Kino (or Flicker Alley) Blu-ray release, and for those who consistently hate the scores on silent video releases it's really a no-brainer to plug a second player into one's existing setup to permit running separate picture and sound sources (just like Vitaphone!).

Before the days of DVDs, I regularly ran a recording of the William Perry piano score to POTEMKIN with virtually any silent 16mm print that didn't have a score (and a few that did). That score (taped off an old PBS TV broadcast), and Phil Carli's score for THE ITALIAN (on DVD) follow a dramatic structure that fits 80-90% of the action for almost any silent feature, sometimes virtually to the gesture. If I'm not fond of a score that comes on a DVD or Blu-ray of a silent, one or the other of those scores makes a more than serviceable backup in lieu of taking the time to compile and sync a new score on my own from records, tapes, and/or CDs (which I've done for a few films before all the new DVDs with prerecorded scores made me lazy). For several years in the 1980s and 90s I was lucky enough to have a keyboard-playing friend living in town who not only loved silent movies, but loved the challenge of playing a live score to a film he'd never seen before and tried to make it to all my home screenings, much to the amazed appreciation of my small audiences.

Live custom performed scores at home screenings can sometimes actually be an option, and doing a live compiled score from records can be a rewarding if hectic and often inconvenient challenge. However, minimal investment and a minute or two of extra setup time makes playing an alternate score from some other movie an easy choice that's far better than suffering through a terrible score or watching in complete silence. Actually recording a new score may be a chore, but it takes no particular professional skill to read the input/output labels on the player, amplifier, and projector (or TV set) jacks, and plug in the proper cables so one player runs the picture and another one runs the sound. (If necessary, maybe a neighbor kid can help! And you can introduce the wonders of silent cinema to an impressionable youngster in the process!)

[bigshot]

The B&W version of A Trip to the Moon appears to be a couple of minutes different than the running time of the color. It's not going to be as easy as you think to bring another DVD player in, repatch your whole home theater and try to line up two completely different soundtracks. I can't imagine anyone going to all that trouble to fix the intentional and unintentional shoddiness of production of a single bluray with under a half hour of running time, but if you are that dedicated, go for it.

I too used to have to cobble together on the fly soundtracks back in the VHS era. I would see the same films on TV or a little later on laserdisc, with proper scores and the difference was like night and day. Silent films deserve proper presentation, and bluray technology makes alternate tracks a snap. I shouldn't be expected to provide my own score when I spend $30 on a disk. If a video producer is forced to deliberately limit the choice because of contractual reasons, that's fine for them. But I still reserve the right to say that the audience is being cheated.

This bluray has less than a half hour of Melies films, two hours of supplements, a lousy soundtrack with no alternatives for the main feature, mastering errors on the other version of the same film and the manufacturer is charging the customers to correct the error. I think that's too many compromises to make excuses for.

I love Flicker Alley. I have their Arbuckle, Melies and Chaplin DVD sets and I recommend them to my friends. But this bluray is a gyp. But it does come in a pretty tin can.