A TRIP TO THE MOON (1902)

[entredeuxguerres]

That score (taped off an old PBS TV broadcast), and Phil Carli's score for THE ITALIAN (on DVD) follow a dramatic structure that fits 80-90% of the action for almost any silent feature, sometimes virtually to the gesture.

Gee, I'd be a little chagrined to know this, if my name were Sauer, Davis, Israel, etc. Reminds me of Peggy Lee's "Is That All There Is?"

[Christopher Jacobs]

The B&W version of A Trip to the Moon appears to be a couple of minutes different than the running time of the color. It's not going to be as easy as you think to bring another DVD player in, repatch your whole home theater and try to line up two completely different soundtracks. I can't imagine anyone going to all that trouble to fix the intentional and unintentional shoddiness of production of a single bluray with under a half hour of running time, but if you are that dedicated, go for it.

Well, I probably wasn't making myself clear enough. Far from "going to all that trouble to fix...a single bluray..." any respectable home theatre should already be set up with two or more players (Blu-ray, DVD, VHS, whatever) so playing an alternate score is as simple as pressing a button, or at most taking a minute to re-plug a couple of cables. Problem solved. As for the scores not lining up, that could be an issue using this particular BW and color edition, but using some other generic track would be no different for any film.

But the issue of having the ability to play alternate soundtracks completely aside, a major reason for installing two or more players in a dedicated home theatre (rather than a simple living room or media room) is for having programs with a couple of shorts before a feature, so you can run them consecutively without waiting to eject, re-insert, suffer through all the FBI warnings and menu options before finally being able to play a 7-minute cartoon, followed by a 20-minute comedy on another disc, and a feature on a third disc. It even makes it feasible to run preview trailers before the shorts or feature, from discs you plan to run on future nights, which becomes maddingly frustrating for a 2-minute trailer with slow Blu-ray load times, multiple warnings and menus to get through before playing one trailer, going through the same process for the next trailer, and again for each short and finally the feature. That is far more annoying than cuing up two different players and pushing a button to switch between them.

I would say that having two or more players wired into a home theatre is so far from being an expensive luxury as to being a near-necessity (and not particularly expensive), for those who actually claim to call their setups a "home theatre" and not just a TV room.

[Christopher Jacobs]

That score (taped off an old PBS TV broadcast), and Phil Carli's score for THE ITALIAN (on DVD) follow a dramatic structure that fits 80-90% of the action for almost any silent feature, sometimes virtually to the gesture.

Gee, I'd be a little chagrined to know this, if my name were Sauer, Davis, Israel, etc. Reminds me of Peggy Lee's "Is That All There Is?"

Perhaps potentially disturbing, but often true. A custom score can have the luxury of matching scene changes and many onscreen actions exactly, but for scores that don't do such tight matching, the general changes of mood for the vast majority of silent films follow very similar patterns, making generic scores not only possible but for certain sensitive ears preferable to certain supposedly custom-composed scores (not mentioning any names here, substitute your favorite "anti-score"). A generic score obviously cannot compete for emotional involvement with an expertly crafted composed/compiled score, but is a godsend to replace scores that are too distracting for comfort. We sadly can't have the luxury of Rodney, Robert, Phil, Carl, et al. to score every film released to video, but we do have options that can somewhat ease disappointing scores.

[bigshot]

I have a very nice Yamaha AV amp. But unfortunately, it does not allow me to play the picture from one HDMI input with the sound from another. My system was professionally installed and jerry rigging the patches in the back would be a royal pain... Not to mention an invitation for shorts in the HDMI. I suppose I could drag a boom box into my theater and play a CD of Bruckner on it, but that isn't a very good option.

I'm past the point of jumping through hoops just to watch silent films. There are a lot of great DVDs and Blurays that provide me with a full package. I'm spoiled now (if you want to call it that). I demand that the companies who release silent films fo better than a half assed job of it.

Image bungled the Phantom, but they manned up and fixed it. Flicker Alley should do the same. And they shouldn't enter into contracts that cheat the audience. If it involves a compromise like that, just do a DVD set like the Chaplin or Arbuckle ones instead. There are a lot of silents that haven't been released in first class transfers with sympathetic scores yet.

[Christopher Jacobs]

I have a very nice Yamaha AV amp. But unfortunately, it does not allow me to play the picture from one HDMI input with the sound from another. My system was professionally installed and jerry rigging the patches in the back would be a royal pain... Not to mention an invitation for shorts in the HDMI. I suppose I could drag a boom box into my theater and play a CD of Bruckner on it, but that isn't a very good option.

My A/V amp is also a nice Yamaha with the same frustrating inability to run audio from a separate input when it's getting picture + audio from an HDMI input. That's when I need to run the Blu-ray player's HDMI directly into the projector itself (which has several HDMI inputs, only one of which is normally used, getting the picture from the A/V amplifier). Then the Blu-ray audio will become muted entirely, its picture goes to the projector, and I can use any of two or three other inputs to play audio at the same time. It's certainly annoying to take that extra minute or two to unplug a cable and reset a couple of settings, but it's less frustrating than listening to an oppressively unsuitable music score.

Worst-case scenario, there are always mp3 players and headphones. Ben Model has graciously recorded a number of alternate scores to several specific films people have complained about, and they're available for download at modest charge. Burn them to a CD and you can run them through your audio system if the player is wired to send the picture directly to the projector or TV set.

[Kevin2]

The black & white version of the film runs about 12:50 and, when you subtract all the credits, the color version is about 14:00. My system allowed me to easily play the Israel and/or the Hodges score with the color version, and they sync up fairly close.

Fortunately, though, I love the Air score, which I think goes very well with the film and sounds great in DTS 5.1.

So far, for me, this is the best Blu-ray/DVD release of the year.

[Rodney]

But I still reserve the right to say that the audience is being cheated.

Good thing you got yours for free, then. Otherwise, you might feel obliged to complain!

[bigshot]

Worth every penny I didn't pay for it!

[Doug Sulpy]

I'm past the point of jumping through hoops just to watch silent films. There are a lot of great DVDs and Blurays that provide me with a full package. I'm spoiled now (if you want to call it that). I demand that the companies who release silent films fo better than a half assed job of it.

Image bungled the Phantom, but they manned up and fixed it. Flicker Alley should do the same. And they shouldn't enter into contracts that cheat the audience. If it involves a compromise like that, just do a DVD set like the Chaplin or Arbuckle ones instead. There are a lot of silents that haven't been released in first class transfers with sympathetic scores yet.

Did Flicker Alley do an Arbuckle set as well, or are you referring to the Mackinac Media set?

And, personally, I'm voting with my wallet, TOO. Not because of the AIR score, but because I can't justify spending $30 for a 15 minute film (unless it's "Her Friend The Bandit" ).

[zootmoney]

At least you guys can watch it. I paid for it, never got it, and Flicker Alley's customer service basically told me they don't believe me, because the tracking number shows it as delivered. Why would I be trying to get another copy?

[silentfilm]

At least you guys can watch it. I paid for it, never got it, and Flicker Alley's customer service basically told me they don't believe me, because the tracking number shows it as delivered. Why would I be trying to get another copy?

Why don't you complain to the post office? It's not Flicker Alley's fault that it has been lost. They paid for package tracking from the post office.

[zootmoney]

Because the sender has to do that. I had a package (also marked as delivered) several years ago that was never delivered. I contacted the post office, and they said to have the sender file a "lost parcel" report. Eventually, they found the package still at the depot.

[bigshot]

Did Flicker Alley do an Arbuckle set as well, or are you referring to the Mackinac Media set?

You're right. I had the companies confused in my head. Thanks.

[Arndt]

For what it's worth, here's what I think. The musical accompaniment by Air is perfectly adequate. It emphasizes the other-worldly, LSD-trippy qualities of the film (especially in its colourized version) rather than the quaint fin-de-siècle ones. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not a great score, but neither do I find it a grating one. I was worried a little in the first scene when you can actually hear muttering and distorted voices, but fortunately that remained an isolated incident.
Would I rather have the choice between two scores? Of course I would. But this does not detract from the heroic effort that went into restoring this film. It is a thing of beauty now and so much more effective than the b+w versions.
A word of caution to my co-Europeans: this is definitely a region A only Bluray.

[Rob Farr]

I'm surprised no one else commented on this, but did anyone else hear chicken clucks as part of the score? At a place where there are no chickens? I saw this at the AFI Silver Theater which has a pretty good sound system. It was in the beginning with all the astronomers chattering away. I get irony, but I'm not sure Melies needs any "help" from AIR to get his point across.

[frankebe]

You can find this quote here and there online: " AIR bandmate Nicolas Godin: “When the people talk [in the film] we decided to use animal sounds. We wanted to do the opposite of Walt Disney. Walt [anthropomorphized the animals by making] them speak with human voices. We have [inverted this] with farm noises and elephants.” "

Personally, I like sound-effects so I'm not offended. In fact I would have been happy if they had made some sort of musical comment or sound effect for the trumpet fanfare by the "marines", firing the gun, the shell in the eyeball, and the explosions of the Selenites.

[Robert Moulton]

But the issue of having the ability to play alternate soundtracks completely aside, a major reason for installing two or more players in a dedicated home theatre (rather than a simple living room or media room) is for having programs with a couple of shorts before a feature, so you can run them consecutively without waiting to eject, re-insert, suffer through all the FBI warnings and menu options before finally being able to play a 7-minute cartoon, followed by a 20-minute comedy on another disc, and a feature on a third disc. It even makes it feasible to run preview trailers before the shorts or feature, from discs you plan to run on future nights, which becomes maddingly frustrating for a 2-minute trailer with slow Blu-ray load times, multiple warnings and menus to get through before playing one trailer, going through the same process for the next trailer, and again for each short and finally the feature. That is far more annoying than cuing up two different players and pushing a button to switch between them.

I've found that my DVD player when plugged in via HDMI uses that connection to determine if the image is being actively displayed on a monitor, if it is not then the disc will not start and you don't get to skip the warnings. It waits you out till the image is being actively displayed. Not sure if this is more about copy protection or making sure you have to watch the warning.

How do you get around that, do you have an amp that lets you simultaneously control multiple input/outputs? Or is this not a characteristic of all players?

[WaverBoy]

You can find this quote here and there online: " AIR bandmate Nicolas Godin: “When the people talk [in the film] we decided to use animal sounds. We wanted to do the opposite of Walt Disney. Walt [anthropomorphized the animals by making] them speak with human voices. We have [inverted this] with farm noises and elephants.” "

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

These people should never be let near a silent film ever ever again.

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to wait to buy the color version until it is released without the extra deluxe farm and elephant noise soundtrack. In the meantime, I'll watch the version on the lovely box set, complete with narration as the First Wizard Of Cinema intended.

[bigshot]

You can find this quote here and there online: " AIR bandmate Nicolas Godin: “When the people talk [in the film] we decided to use animal sounds. We wanted to do the opposite of Walt Disney. Walt [anthropomorphized the animals by making] them speak with human voices. We have [inverted this] with farm noises and elephants.” "

We live in the age of arbitrary.

[bigshot]

It emphasizes the other-worldly, LSD-trippy qualities of the film.

The film doesn't have "LSD trippy qualities". It's a Melies film and has the qualities all Melies films have. If there are any LSD trippy qualities involved, it's a part of the viewer's solipsist experience of the film, not the film itself.

[Rodney]

It emphasizes the other-worldly, LSD-trippy qualities of the film.

The film doesn't have "LSD trippy qualities". It's a Melies film and has the qualities all Melies films have. If there are any LSD trippy qualities involved, it's a part of the viewer's solipsist experience of the film, not the film itself.

I admit that there are a few Melies films -- the early Dreyfus films come to mind -- that don't have LSD trippy qualities. Anyone who finds it not trippy when a trap door opens in Saturn and a Greek God pops out, or when a man plants an umbrella and it turns into a mushroom and grows, or when in an otherwise fairly realistic expository scene a bunch of telescopes suddenly turn into stools to sit on, needs to adjust their tripping/not tripping life balance.

[Arndt]

It emphasizes the other-worldly, LSD-trippy qualities of the film.

The film doesn't have "LSD trippy qualities". It's a Melies film and has the qualities all Melies films have. If there are any LSD trippy qualities involved, it's a part of the viewer's solipsist experience of the film, not the film itself.

First and foremost Meliès films were meant to be fun. Great big whacky entertainment. I get the feeling you are taking them way too seriously, if you can't see this rather obvious quality anymore. Maybe you're not so happy to share them with just anybody and would rather lock them up in your own private museum, with period music and lots of dust.

[bigshot]

Exactly, they're supposed to be fun! Not half awake dreamy drifting... exciting, adventurous fun.

All you have to do is watch the film and look for how the music interacts with what is going on up on the screen. You've got astronomers waving their arms around, hopping up and down and being chased by aliens that explode on impact, and you've got music lying on its back with half lidded eyes drifting off into Pink Floydian dreamland= plus some completely arbitrary muttering, clucking, and bellowing elephant sound effects that relate to nothing. Total disconnect. Amateur time. Those old free association Rosa Rita piano scores are better than this.

It's really hard for me to understand how silent movie fans could find this acceptable. The surest way to kill a silent film is to put arbitrary music with it. It reminds me of the idiots who play Dark Side of the Moon with The Wizard of OZ and think they find some harmonic convergence in it.

[Rodney]

Exactly, they're supposed to be fun! Not half awake dreamy drifting... exciting, adventurous fun.

All you have to do is watch the film and look for how the music interacts with what is going on up on the screen. You've got astronomers waving their arms around, hopping up and down and being chased by aliens that explode on impact, and you've got music lying on its back with half lidded eyes drifting off into Pink Floydian dreamland= plus some completely arbitrary muttering, clucking, and bellowing elephant sound effects that relate to nothing. Total disconnect. Amateur time. Those old free association Rosa Rita piano scores are better than this.

It's really hard for me to understand how silent movie fans could find this acceptable. The surest way to kill a silent film is to put arbitrary music with it. It reminds me of the idiots who play Dark Side of the Moon with The Wizard of OZ and think they find some harmonic convergence in it.

Probably because you're hearing a very different score than we're hearing. It's the same musical score we have, but it charms us, and disgusts you. In fact, the more you attack it, and the more weird the attacks get, the more I feel I should defend it, in case people reading this thread think that the score is as bad as you say. It simply isn't. Not my favorite, not what I would have done, but it works just fine.

[bigshot]

I've given very specific examples of how the soundtrack undercuts the action. The question isn't "like" or "don't like". It's "Does the music serve the film?" I'm very glad to hear that it wasn't what you would have done, because I don't want to have to sit through any more arbitrary and thoughtless soundtracks like this. I hope your support of Flicker Alley gets you the next project instead of Air and I hope my bitching gets them to provide more alternative tracks.

[Rodney]

I've given very specific examples of how the soundtrack undercuts the action. The question isn't "like" or "don't like". It's "Does the music serve the film?" I'm very glad to hear that it wasn't what you would have done, because I don't want to have to sit through any more arbitrary and thoughtless soundtracks like this. I hope your support of Flicker Alley gets you the next project instead of Air and I hope my bitching gets them to provide more alternative tracks.

Right -- but your "specific examples" don't seem to be in the score as I remember it. You describe "Pink Floydian dreamland" music when the Selenites are being attacked, when I remember the music when the Selenites are being attacked as a rather doom-filled and rocked-out march that (as has been described in several posts earlier) is clearly suited to the action, not "lying on its back with half lidded eyes." As I said, I didn't hear the same sound track you did. If you want other examples, look at the other positive reviews above, and the many five-star audio reviews given to this release by less narrowly-focused reviewers at DVD Beaver and elsewhere. You are an outlier, and I have some sympathy and pity for your apparent inability to enjoy musical scores that others can enjoy.

And if you've read the posts, you'll know that your bitching will do absolutely nothing to get Flicker Alley to provide more alternative tracks. It simply wasn't Flicker Alley's decision. All your "bitching" will do is kill sales and turn people off of a release that many of them would actually enjoy, as indicated by the fact that many enjoy it, and one found the best release of the year so far. Especially since the music is fine. Perhaps not outstanding, but fine. It follows the arc of the film, and is informed by the action. And it's not like it's a film that calls for a huge emotional boost from the score anyway.

[Ed Watz]

My copy of the Flicker Alley Melies DVD arrived today. The AIR music accompanying the color A TRIP TO THE MOON works fine. It doesn't bother me at all. In fact, it's appropriate for the film. Wife and son felt the same way, and they're casual film buffs at best.

[sc1957]

Received this email Tuesday 5/1/2012. I signed up for a replacement disc the day it was announced:

Dear Flicker Alley Customer:

We are writing to confirm your request for a Blu-ray disc replacement of our limited SteelBook edition A Trip to the Moon/The Extraordinary Voyage. We want to let you know that the replacement Blu-ray discs have now been manufactured to correct the audio mastering error on one of the bonus feature black and white versions.

We will be processing and shipping your requested replacement disc(s) before the end of this week to the address that you keyed-in on the replacement disc order form made available on our website. USPS First-Class Mail will be used for both domestic and international addresses.

Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience related to your purchase of this set, and thank you for your patience during the re-mastering and re-manufacturing process.

Please feel free to contact us with any inquiries.

Best wishes,

The Flicker Alley Team

[bigshot]

A doom march chase scene.

Have you listened to Israel's score? Do you think they're in the same league?

[Battra92]

Worst-case scenario, there are always mp3 players and headphones. Ben Model has graciously recorded a number of alternate scores to several specific films people have complained about, and they're available for download at modest charge. Burn them to a CD and you can run them through your audio system if the player is wired to send the picture directly to the projector or TV set.

Rifftrax has made quite a business of doing this very thing. I'd love to see some other composers or even amateurs with a stack of public domain recordings do their take on La Voyage Dans La Lune. I mean, let's have fun with it. The movie is a blast even without music but I bet people with a good knowledge of classical or can do some piano improv could do wonders with it.