Got my first projector and film, any tips?

[SteppenBow59]

Today we finally received a 16mm Keystone film projector in the mail, my dad ordered it off eBay. We also received a sample film for us to play: a home movie from 1962-63 (we know because in a scene you can see a note on a Christmas tree that says, "Merry Christmas - Happy New Year - 1963"). It is a model A-82, number 497,707. It's really a very nice little thing, pretty heavy and it has it's own case. As for the home movie, it was actually pretty interesting. We even caught glimpses of a '53 Corvette. I'll try and post pics at a later date.

So, any tips for keeping a projector and a film? Also, any other additional supplies? I'm worried about what will happen to the film under my care and how best to take care of it. The last thing I want is vinegar syndrome and all that jazz.

[bobfells]

Martie,

At this point in time, your most serious challenge is to find replacement projector bulbs. If it takes the more recent (relatively speaking) halogen bulbs, you may not have a problem. But the old tube bulbs are apparently no longer manufactured and you're buying from existing supplies. Hopefully, somebody more technical will be able to give you better advice to maintain and repair the projector.

[Michael O'Regan]

You might want to check out this site for collectors of 16mm;

http://www.16mmfilmtalk.com" target="_blank

[silentfilm]

Your projector won't have anything to do with vinegar syndrome. Any films that you have that are expensive or difficult to replace, should be stored in archival cans or cardboard boxes, so that the acetate film can outgas and it can escape into the room. Keeping a film in an air-tight metal or plastic can for a long time can accelerate vinegar syndrome. Note that polyester films cannot develop vinegar syndrome.

How can you tell if a film is acetate or polyester? Hold it up to a light. If the film looks dark, it is acetate. If a lot of light shines through, it is polyester.

Also, make sure that you clean your projector film-path regularly.

[SteppenBow59]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll take them into accord.

How can you tell if a film is acetate or polyester? Hold it up to a light. If the film looks dark, it is acetate. If a lot of light shines through, it is polyester.

I tried that and it seems to be acetate, but what was more common in the 60's, polyester or acetate?

Here's some pics of the home movie, taken when shown on a makeshift screen.




The makeshift screen in our dining room.

[SteppenBow59]

Martie,

At this point in time, your most serious challenge is to find replacement projector bulbs. If it takes the more recent (relatively speaking) halogen bulbs, you may not have a problem. But the old tube bulbs are apparently no longer manufactured and you're buying from existing supplies. Hopefully, somebody more technical will be able to give you better advice to maintain and repair the projector.

It's a 120 volt 750 watt incandescent bulb.

[Jim Reid]

Something to be very careful of. The projector you got is double sprocketed. That means there are sprocket holes on both sides of the image. If you try to run a film print that only has sprockets on one side, you will most likely ruin it. The vast majority of film prints out there are single sprocketed, because one side was used for the soundtrack. You are also limited to 400ft reel capacity. You might want to look around for another projector that handles larger capacity reels and also runs sound. I would suggest an Elmo 16CL or an Eiki SSL. These were used by schools and other institutions and thousands were dumped in the last 20 years. Many times you can find good used projectors on Ebay or Craigslist. I like Craigslist because the sellers are local, so you avoid shipping charges and can go test it before paying for it.

[SteppenBow59]

I have a model A-82, but this advert is interesting nevertheless.

[mndean]

Aw, shoot. I have a Sylvania 1000 watt CTT bulb I got along with a lot of other items, but it doesn't appear to be useful to you. Five years ago I sold two Bell and Howell 16mm projectors I got for nothing.

The double sprockets will bite you unless you're very careful what you buy. Even my old 16mm cameras (want one? there are no lenses, though) use single sprocket pulldown.

[SteppenBow59]

Aw, shoot. I have a Sylvania 1000 watt CTT bulb I got along with a lot of other items, but it doesn't appear to be useful to you. Five years ago I sold two Bell and Howell 16mm projectors I got for nothing.

The double sprockets will bite you unless you're very careful what you buy. Even my old 16mm cameras (want one? there are no lenses, though) use single sprocket pulldown.

We're just going to get silents for the projector. Any features, silent or sound (which are quite expensive, it seems), we'll just get a DVD or Blu-Ray.
We just ordered a spare bulb for $12, it's on the way.

[Danny Burk]

We're just going to get silents for the projector. Any features, silent or sound (which are quite expensive, it seems), we'll just get a DVD or Blu-Ray.
We just ordered a spare bulb for $12, it's on the way.

Keep in mind that only very old prints are likely to be double sprocket. Most prints made in (at least) the last few decades will be on single-sprocket stock, even those without a soundtrack.

[SteppenBow59]

A sample of the home movie, recorded with digital camera from the screen.

[mndean]

My first thought at the opening shots was, "How are those three girls going to fit into that Corvette?" I've been in one, and with a driver, you couldn't fit three children in it even if you stowed one in the trunk. BTW, the Corvette could be any year from '53-'55, not enough detail for me to tell.

[SteppenBow59]

Any tips on how to keep the film-path clean?

[Jim Reid]

Very cool. Beautiful color. You won't find that all the time. Many film types are fire engine red now.
Love the car. Any car experts? Late 50s or early 60s?

[mndean]

My guess is it's Kodachrome, which keeps well if not projected often. Car is '53-'55 as I said above. More likely '53-'54, I think you could get it in a color other than white in '55, and they finally shoved a V-8 in it. Chevy changed the body style in '56.

[SteppenBow59]

My guess is it's Kodachrome

You are correct.

[Richard M Roberts]

Any tips on how to keep the film-path clean?

Q-tips and isopropyl alcohol.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

[SteppenBow59]

We've determined that it's not a V8. After studying the frames there is no gold V in Chevrolet. The chances of it being a '55 are extremely slim because only 7 got a 6 cylinder. It's probably a '54 because even though all 300 '53's were white, 3200 of the 3600 '54's were white. In case you're wondering about all the stats we're a Corvette household so we're having fun identifying the car in the film.

[Christopher Jacobs]

Any tips on how to keep the film-path clean?

Q-tips and isopropyl alcohol.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Yes, Q-tips and alcohol for the film gate, any rollers the film passes over, and wherever the film runs close to or touches some sort of metal.

For the sprockets, find a "hard" bristle toothbrush and hold it against the sprockets while they're running to clean them after every showing (after every reel if you've got really old, dirty film). That projector series and similar early ones have nice, open, easy-to-clean (and easy-to-thread) designs that are much easier to maintain than later, more enclosed projectors from the 60s and 70s.

It's great fun running old 16mm (or 8mm) prints like that. With double-perf film, it is unlikely you will ever find any on polyester, which was rare in the 1970s but pretty much replaced acetate during the 90s. Your double-perf films will probably all be triacetate (newer) or diacetate (older). Old home movies can be loads of fun to watch (depending on how well the camera operator knew how to focus and hold the camera steady). You might also be lucky and find some bargains at flea market and antique shops with abridgements and clips of classic films (usually from "Castle Films" and others) or even complete silent shorts and features made just for that sort of projector during the 1920s and 30s and distributed for years afterwards. Those original Kodascope and Universal Show-at-Home and other early home movie or rental editions were typically supplied on 100-foot and 400-foot reels, though may by now have been spliced together onto 1600-foot or 2000-foot reels for fewer reel-changes using larger-capacity projectors. Some may also be slightly warped or shrunken by now, though may stil run through an older projector. You might also find Blackhawk (or other company) prints of classic silent movies on double-perf 16mm film struck for the collector market in the 1960s and 70s, but the "two-reelers" are most likely to come on one 800-foot reel by the late 60s and 70s.

You will probably want to get a pair of rewinds and a splicer (for cement splices and/or tape splices). A small rear-projection viewing screen to set between them might be convenient but is not necessary. Besides making it easier to repair and inspect film before running it, that way if you find a silent feature or two-reeler on double-perf stock at a good price, you can wind through it and cut it up into its original 400-foot reel lengths and put it onto reels that fit your projector. (However, especially for prints originally printed in the typical 1600-foot length rather than assembled by some collector from smaller reels, it might be less trouble and cheaper to find a used 16mm Bell & Howell with a 2000-foot capacity, often selling for $25-$50 these days!) You may also want to invest in a reel or two of blank leader to cut up so you can splice an extra few feet on the heads and tails of each reel for extra protection (especially if you cut up longer films into 400-foot lengths).

Good luck collecting films! (I was 14 when I got my first Brownie movie camera and 15 when I got my first projector! Between that time I watched the film on a little "Baia" movie editor with a rear-projection screen viewer built-in between two rewinds)

[SteppenBow59]

We just got a 1967 Mansfield 8mm/16mm auto splicer and film viewer, with original box and instruction manual.

[Christopher Jacobs]

Be careful with any film viewer, as many tend to add nasty scratches to film (of course many projectors do this too, usually from worn parts, misadjustment, stuck rollers that don't roll, improper threading, or buildup of dirt in the film path). You might want to find some clear leader to test it out before running actual movies through it.

[mndean]

I know Corvettes, but really only was interested in the '63-'67 Sting Rays. I disliked the cramped interiors of the earlier models. I drove a '60 (birth year) and the steering wheel was just too damn close to my chest. I get the feeling Marty Milner and George Maharis got to know each other real well on Route 66. Maybe that's why Maharis quit.

[pookybear]

Do not forget to visit paul's page

http://www.paulivester.com/films/" target="_blank

and, http://www.film-center.com/gb1.html" target="_blank

great for all kinds of little tips.

Pookybear

[silentfilm]

And for any supplies that you might need...

http://moviecraft.tripod.com/supplies.html

[mndean]

Off chance someone knows, but this thread triggered a memory. Some time ago I was offered what I think is an Ampro Stylist (or maybe Super Stylist) projector that needed its sound amplifier repaired. I passed, but the owner still has it and I'm pretty sure I could get it. It looked older than either of my Bell and Howells (552 & 1552) that I sold, but I didn't know anything about their reputation handling film, or availability of parts. I see in one of the links there's a schematic for the amp, which is really all I need to get that part going. It likely needs tubes or capacitors considering its age. Worth a try, or is it impossible to get necessary parts?

[Tommy Stathes]

Kudos, Martie! You’re going to have a lot of fun with your new toy.

I often get lots of things I don’t want or need to keep when buying 16mm prints for my collection and occasionally post them to my sale list here: http://silentcartoons.weebly.com/sale-list.html" target="_blank

Not everything there is still available, but you might find some inexpensive oddities of interest. Most of the silent-era subjects or “silent” prints are indeed double-sprocket.

[SteppenBow59]

We just received a big box of goodies today.



We now have four plastic breathable film cans, three plastic spools (or is it reels?), 100 movie film cleaning patches, FilmGuard film cleaner and lubricant, 8 packs of film splicing tape, 2 bottles of film cement, The Book of Film Care and packs of mens' and ladies' film handling gloves.

[Christopher Jacobs]

We now have four plastic breathable film cans, three plastic spools (or is it reels?),

They're "reels" in the U.S. and often called "spools" or "bobines" in Europe. In the U.S. "film spool" usually refers to what unexposed film comes on for use in a camera. Also in the U.S. we "thread" the film in the projector (and camera), whereas elsewhere they "lace" the projector! And of course we measure film length in feet --with a 1000-foot reel being the theatrical standard for 35mm film (equivalent to 400 feet for 16mm) and 2000-foot double-size reels used for projection by the 1910s and becoming the norm by the 1940s through the present -- whereas everywhere else they measure film length in meters (or metres).

[boblipton]

My first thought at the opening shots was, "How are those three girls going to fit into that Corvette?" I've been in one, and with a driver, you couldn't fit three children in it even if you stowed one in the trunk. BTW, the Corvette could be any year from '53-'55, not enough detail for me to tell.

Get yourself a good bonesaw.

Bob