EAST LYNNE (1916)

[drednm]

Here's an odd film project for Theda Bara.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3K8NCyfnqA" target="_blank

[silentfilm]

This was posted by Hala Pickford. She must have purchased a copy off of eBay from the guy that was selling DVDs of this transfer for $100.

[drednm]

$100? Are you kidding?

[telical]

That would be weird if this was the only copy existing of this movie.
Do such silents exist only in this second generation videotaped form?

[drednm]

And what's with the counter? I have several silents with this annoying counter thing on it.....

[silentfilm]

I'm pretty sure that this film is at the NY Museum of Modern Art archive. They provided a video dub (with counter) to someone who is burning DVD copies and selling them. The film is public domain.

[drednm]

So the video counter thing is supposed to prevent someone from making a salable master..... When I got a copy of a film from Grapevine to add a music track to, it also had the counter thingy....

[telical]

It's interesting how Kodak failed as a company, and how the
George Eastman house has this bad reputation for not letting
go of public domain silents. It kind of goes the show the need
for positive social merit, as being a component of business success.
At least that's what most of the people around George Eastman's time
believed. It seems maybe it's something in the recent corporate
culture there. I wonder what working at Kodak was like in the last
30 years?

[entredeuxguerres]

I wonder what working at Kodak was like in the last
30 years?

Probably the best job anyone there had ever held.

[drednm]

I spent a week in Rochester and really liked the city. Great restaurants, GEH, etc. But even a few years ago when I was there, Kodak was quickly becoming a ghost, and Xerox was on life support. Technology has changed so quickly, and these corporate giants just got passed by.

Meanwhile, GEH sits on a gold mine of films that rot in vaults despite their restoration efforts. Posting a handful of mute silents with gigantic GEH logos on them online doesn't really serve much purpose. Neither does restoring films that only sit in vaults. Talk about Pyrrhic victories!

[telical]

I think we need Richard M. Roberts to have a word with them.

[Jim Reid]

The counter is burned in time code. It's usually put on a work print that will be played on something that doesn't display time code. Someone got a hold of a work print.

[Richard M Roberts]

I think we need Richard M. Roberts to have a word with them.

I have words with folk at George Eastman House all of the time, and they do what they can with the budget they have (which, I may add, at this point and for many years past, none of which has come from Eastman Kodak) and they are hurting like most archives in the current economy. As to their films "sitting" or "rotting" in vaults (as opposed to, what, dancing in the streets? Just where are films supposed to sit?) they aren't the easiest place to book films for festival showings, but they are not the worst either. Putting their films up online made it possible for you to continue sitting on your asses in front of your computer and watch some rare films without doing so much as paying anything for it, and putting their big giant logo in the corner was done so folk like Hala Pickford can't just download it and put it up on YouTube without people knowing where it came from. I'm sure if one of the whiners in this thread put some money where their mouth is and wrote Eastman House a nice, fat check towards putting more films online, or put out a release on a DVD, they'd be willing to listen and happy to help.

Until then, when you can do better, what you say might mean something.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[telical]

OK, well, that didn't work. *

Seriously, I wonder if this isn't more of a European/American type thing.

A friend of mine who lives on both continents frequently says how bad
American funding for the arts is. If GEH was in Europe, I wonder if
things would be the same, or is the funding for archival films the
same regardless of continent.

* It was meant to be a joke, re: RMR having a word with them -- in
light of recent posts. I picked up on his defense of archives a while ago.

[entredeuxguerres]

10%...no, 5%, of the millions H'wood bigshots pour into the Democratic Party would probably fund every major archive in the country; they have the dough, I don't.

[greta de groat]

So, Richard, do you have any insight into why GEH pulled its online film site? I had watched quite a few and was hoping they would put more up. I was perfectly fine with the huge logo, didn't stop me from enjoying the films and thought it was perfectly reasonable on their part.

greta

[entredeuxguerres]

Several months ago, someone posted a link to the 4 or 5 dozen silents (mostly shorts) available for viewing at the Eastman site, but they were no where to be found when I searched for them again recently. Called E.H. & was informed they had actually been hosted by Kodak, but for reasons unknown to my informant had been "lost." (Maybe not surprizing in light of the current turmoil at this grand old institution.) Eastman plans eventually to host them from their own site, I was told, but in the near future intends to make them available on YouTube...though without remembering the individual titles, I wonder how they can be found.

("Eastman House: on-line films taken down.")

[Richard M Roberts]

10%...no, 5%, of the millions H'wood bigshots pour into the Democratic Party would probably fund every major archive in the country; they have the dough, I don't.

Well, Rupert Murdoch could fund all the major American Archives with his credit card, so could the Koch Brothers if they weren't too busy spending way more than they'd actually pay in taxes trying to buy Congress and the White House--------so what!

It's bad enough that the people who are actually interested in this stuff don't support the work of those who are actually making an effort to save the stuff. Every so often some of you get on and blow hot air about the nasty old archives and all the film they're holding hostage, like where in the hell do you think all the things you see come from? Either Archives or Private Collectors (and funny, a lot of Archival Restorations are financed by those Hollywood Bigshots and their Studios), but when you can't get to see your favorite Colleen Moore film the split-second you want too, or there's some little inconvienience like a bug in the corner of the screen when you're watching it for free, it's temper-tantrum time and it's the Evil Axis of Archives nasty old fault.

Just put a sock in it! You don't know what in the hell you're talking about, you're not entitled to see any of it, and you're damn lucky to be seeing all that your seeing.

And if you want to get political, just remember that if it was up to the T(for Traitor)ea Party, they'd probably privatize the Library of Congress and sell it off to Dubai. or just put all the films and books up on ebay for the rich folks to add to their vaults in Switzerland.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[Penfold]

10%...no, 5%, of the millions H'wood bigshots pour into the Democratic Party would probably fund every major archive in the country; they have the dough, I don't.

Well, Rupert Murdoch could fund all the major American Archives with his credit card, so could the Koch Brothers if they weren't too busy spending way more than they'd actually pay in taxes trying to buy Congress and the White House--------so what!

It's bad enough that the people who are actually interested in this stuff don't support the work of those who are actually making an effort to save the stuff. Every so often some of you get on and blow hot air about the nasty old archives and all the film they're holding hostage, like where in the hell do you think all the things you see come from? Either Archives or Private Collectors (and funny, a lot of Archival Restorations are financed by those Hollywood Bigshots and their Studios), but when you can't get to see your favorite Colleen Moore film the split-second you want too, or there's some little inconvienience like a bug in the corner of the screen when you're watching it for free, it's temper-tantrum time and it's the Evil Axis of Archives nasty old fault.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Where's that "Applause" smiley when you want one..........also, regarding US versus European Archives touched on above, the situation for European Archives is even more tricky due to our more protective copyright legislation........the Melies films only became what you call Public Domain this year, and only if they haven't been restored or had scores attached since....Archives and Archivists - I've met a great many - are doing an incredible job to the best of their heavily-squeezed budget, and that's true pretty much the World over.

[entredeuxguerres]

10%...no, 5%, of the millions H'wood bigshots pour into the Democratic Party would probably fund every major archive in the country; they have the dough, I don't.

Well, Rupert Murdoch could fund all the major American Archives with his credit card, so could the Koch Brothers if they weren't too busy spending way more than they'd actually pay in taxes trying to buy Congress and the White House--------so what!
RICHARD M ROBERTS

So what? Overlooked in your zeal to make your point, one trivial difference between Murdoch, et al., & the H'wood elite--he isn't in the motion picture business, has no particular reason to be more concerned about the preservation of antique cinema than of antique fire-engines. Hard as well to understand how the idiocy of the Tea Party could be used to defend the historical indifference of H'wood fat-cats.

[Richard M Roberts]

10%...no, 5%, of the millions H'wood bigshots pour into the Democratic Party would probably fund every major archive in the country; they have the dough, I don't.

Well, Rupert Murdoch could fund all the major American Archives with his credit card, so could the Koch Brothers if they weren't too busy spending way more than they'd actually pay in taxes trying to buy Congress and the White House--------so what!
RICHARD M ROBERTS

So what? Overlooked in your zeal to make your point, one trivial difference between Murdoch, et al., & the H'wood elite--he isn't in the motion picture business, has no particular reason to be more concerned about the preservation of antique cinema than of antique fire-engines. Hard as well to understand how the idiocy of the Tea Party could be used to defend the historical indifference of H'wood fat-cats.

Fat Cats are Fat Cats, no matter what business they're in. The irony is that two Fat Cats are basically responsible for the financing of 90 percent of Archival Film Preservation in America: David Packard and Hugh Hefner (and that cat ain't so fat anymore). Without these two Angels, you would really have good reason to whine about the Archives, they'd really be dead broke.

Murdoch not part of the Hollywood Elite? Funny, he owns a little thing called Twentieth Century- Fox. Shows how much you know.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[entredeuxguerres]

Murdoch not part of the Hollywood Elite? Funny, he owns a little thing called Twentieth Century- Fox. Shows how much you know.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Last time I clearly remember anyone saying to me "shows how much you know," I believe I was still in elementary school. On the other hand, it is true I don't know everything...unlike some others in this community.

What I know is that owning Fox or any other studio--just another investment--does NOT make him part of the H'wood elite...unless you know of his invitation to Streisand's house-parties. Neither is ownership of stock equivalent to the personal committment to preservation of motion picture history that might be expected of actors, directors, producers.

[Rodney]

Back to the "time codes on screen" thing, it's traditional on work video, but not just as a "bug" to claim the video as yours. It's a "SMPTE" code (there's an audio version too that was used in the scoring-to-tape days so that your system listened to clicks on the audio track, and that ensured that your recording audio tape ran at whatever speed your VHS happened to be going), and you use it for keeping your audio synced up to the screen image. Even in these days where everything I record is on computer hard drives, there are at least six different video speeds, several in common use, and I'm rarely told explicitly what frame rate the video is using. Setting a frame rate, then checking whether the computer's time clock aligns with the burned-in time code at the beginning and the end of the film is an excellent way to ensure that your score will align with the video. If you set the rate wrong, it can be off by a dozen seconds by the end of a feature.

Of course, it also makes the movie less likely to be pirated. The most explicit "this is mine" bug I ever got was on a VHS from Rusty Casselton when I was scoring Chicago the first time, to perform with his 16mm print. The video had "Rodney Sauer" burned onto the image. If I'd put THAT up on youtube or sold it on eBay, I suspect my finger prints would have been traceable.

[Richard M Roberts]

Last time I clearly remember anyone saying to me "shows how much you know," I believe I was still in elementary school. On the other hand, it is true I don't know everything...unlike some others in this community.

You certainly don't, we'll work on the sense of humor later.

What I know is that owning Fox or any other studio--just another investment--does NOT make him part of the H'wood elite...unless you know of his invitation to Streisand's house-parties. Neither is ownership of stock equivalent to the personal committment to preservation of motion picture history that might be expected of actors, directors, producers.

[/quote]


I see, owning a movie studio does not make you part of the Hollywood Elite, but a Streisand invite does. Elementary School must not have been so long ago.

You must mean those card-carrying pinko Hollywood (well, Beverly Hills actually, nobody lives in Hollywood except homeless people) brie-eaters who want to pollute our kids minds with all that commie filth and turn `em all into Democrat zombies on welfare. Thats right, they're too busy spending their millions on distributing misinformation and putting fluoride in the water supply to impurify our natural bodily fluids to spend anything on film preservation.

Well, that "Hollywood elite" actually does spend a penny or two on film preservation, that's why the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is one of the better funded Archival Institutions at the moment, and a number of the Studios, as much as we love to hate `em, do either spend money to fund specific preservation projects, or have in-house Preservation departments of their own. Universal and Sony have been doing a reasonable amount of preservation work of late on their back catalog, Warners and Paramount work in tandem with both UCLA and the Library of Congress to preserve films they own, may be a drop in the bucket to them, but it is sure way hell of a lot more than any whiners around here seem to be doing.

And funny, a number of so-called "Hollywood Elite" I have ever had contact with to seem to be Republican.



Hey Rodney, loved the Rusty Casselton story, that brightened my morning while the coffee was brewing. The film collectors equivalent of "This ashtray stolen from".......That was Rusty. He was a good friend and I miss him.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[drednm]

I wish you'd stop whining about people whose opinions don't mesh with yours. People don't have to agree with you. Get over it, and get over yourself. And don't bother with your rant because I won't read it.

[entredeuxguerres]

And don't bother with your rant because I won't read it.

Oh, but I will...to further my research on the Napoleon Complex.

[Richard M Roberts]

I wish you'd stop whining about people whose opinions don't mesh with yours. People don't have to agree with you. Get over it, and get over yourself. And don't bother with your rant because I won't read it.

Facts scare ya, huh?


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[Daniel Eagan]

So, Richard, do you have any insight into why GEH pulled its online film site?

greta

I can't speak for GEH but I would guess that the site got too expensive to maintain. I know for other sites hosting videos has soaked up way too much money. Ironically, the more people watch, the more expensive it gets. When one film was posted last year on another site, the costs ballooned to a third of the annual budget.

[drednm]

All they need is Youtube............

[entredeuxguerres]

All they need is Youtube............

Guess that's better than nothing, but I dread those inescapable, atrocious YT ads, which make the GEH monogram others have complained of (not me!) inconsequential. (Heaven help me!--can this be construed as a whine?)