New restored Harold Lloyd shorts on TCM music scores

[Gloria Rampage]

Did any one here watch the new batch restored Harold Lloyd shorts on TCM Thursday night? I am going through the shorts now that I DVR-D and was surprised Robert Israel didn't score these this time.

None of the one and two-reelers contain any music credits so am wondering who did the scores or where it came from. It sounds a lot like the Crescent City Jazz Band style of music from the old Hooray For Harold Lloyd TV series.

The music is good, I like it, it just seems more like spliced in music from a licensed music library and not scored per film. Kind of needle-drop type scores. Any knowledgable smarty out there with the scoop of the scores?

[entredeuxguerres]

Did any one here watch the new batch restored Harold Lloyd shorts on TCM Thursday night? I am going through the shorts now that I DVR-D and was surprised Robert Israel didn't score these this time.

None of the one and two-reelers contain any music credits so am wondering who did the scores or where it came from. It sounds a lot like the Crescent City Jazz Band style of music from the old Hooray For Harold Lloyd TV series.

The music is good, I like it, it just seems more like spliced in music from a licensed music library and not scored per film. Kind of needle-drop type scores. Any knowledgable smarty out there with the scoop of the scores?

A "knowledgable smarty" I'm not, but I am able to recognize loud, formless cacophony when I hear it; small wonder no one stepped forward to claim "credit"! If pressed to suggest a name for such auditory abuse, "Dixiland" comes close, so it very well may have been the Crescent City Jazz Band, or something equally punishing. For anyone who'd assert "the music is good, I like it," the wonderful work of Robt. Israel would be falling on deaf ears.

[ElectricPhonograph]

I liked the music, myself. I agree with you though, Gloria, it did sound quite "needle-drop". Which of the shorts was your favorite, on another note? I really enjoyed "Look Pleasant, Please".

[Gloria Rampage]

entredeuxguerres »
A "knowledgable smarty" I'm not, but I am able to recognize loud, formless cacophony when I hear it; small wonder no one stepped forward to claim "credit"! If pressed to suggest a name for such auditory abuse, "Dixiland" comes close, so it very well may have been the Crescent City Jazz Band, or something equally punishing. For anyone who'd assert "the music is good, I like it," the wonderful work of Robt. Israel would be falling on deaf ears.

Yes I miss Robert's scores as well. Too bad he wasn't used again for these newly restored shorts. The music wasn't bad though, I did enjoy it but the reuse of the same tunes gets repetitive.

[telical]

I saw much of them. I'm of the opinion that period music probably doesn't
do silent comedy as much good as we think, because do we really know
what a 1910's piano player would sound like accompanying such works?
IMHO, I'm not even sure we always get what the great masters music
was supposed to sound like. Witness the piece "les barricades mystérieuses"
by Couperin played on YouTube. There are about ten ways of playing it, all different
tempos. It's supposed to sound like a beautiful question, probably played
quickly enough so that all the mysteries are building up.

Redundant period music by a piano player who isn't laughing along
with the comedy being shown probably isn't what the original audiences
were experiencing.

[Gloria Rampage]

by ElectricPhonograph »
I liked the music, myself.

So did I. Very lively toe tapping melodies.

I agree with you though, Gloria, it did sound quite "needle-drop".

Yes, it needed more variety in the selection. Over all a good job.

Which of the shorts was your favorite, on another note? I really enjoyed "Look Pleasant, Please".

Haven't watched them all yet.

[Gagman 66]

The frantic fast paced Jazz numbers caught me off guard. However, there was allot of recycling of the five Walter Scharf Jazz melodies of Fall Frolic Music from the 1960's re-issue of THE FRESHMAN, which was not used in the 2002 THE FRESHMAN score itself. That restoration having the wonderful Robert Israel score. I enjoyed hearing this music again. I always liked Scarf's score to THE FRESHMAN. Especially the Jazz tunes. I guess I was not aware that the Lloyd Trust owned this music. Some of the scenes in a few of the shorts had different music, but most of it were the same small handful of themes playing over and over again. Arrangements that certainly did not fit into the 1917-1919 time frame. I would have expected to hear more Ragtime oriented stuff, some Fox trots, Photoplay movie mood themes and such, rather then the constant Mid to late 20's sounding Jazz.

No trace of HL's theme song "OH HAROLD" was to be found in any of the debuting titles, though it wasn't recorded until 1922. Some of the music might have been lifted from the 1970's Harold Lloyd Time-Life films series. Mostly Neil Hefty compositions performed by the Crescent City Jazz Band. Since I have seen very few of those I could not say for sure? Only SAFETY LAST and THE FRESHMAN and the only one i have a copy of is THE FRESHMAN on VHS.

Most of the One-reelers I had never seen before, or had not seen in a very long time. While there was allot of broad slapstick in these early shorts, lacking the subtlety and sophistication of his later work, there were also some brilliant routines scattered about. And Bebe Daniels was so darn cute in these early films. It was a treat to see her as well. Kind of surprised that more mention was not made of her.

[entredeuxguerres]

And Bebe Daniels was so darn cute in these early films. It was a treat to see her as well. Kind of surprised that more mention was not made of her.

So am I, as SHE was the main reason I watched them! In the earliest, her parts were disappointing...hardly more than a shot of some wild-eyed expression, then the camera cut away. By 1919, her roles were expanding--esp. noticeable in Samy in Siberia, which also had the best soundtrack--a merciful relief from the relentless din of the others. Can't understand, considering that she & Harold were good friends, went nightclubbing together, etc., why he relegated her to 3rd billing.

[Gloria Rampage]

The broad slapstick and wild physical action is the main reason I enjoyed these rare short comedies. Can't never have enough kicking, poking, shoving and slapping routines.
I enjoyed all of them equally with TAKE A CHANCE a real funny stand out, especially the chase with Lloyd mistaken for the escaped prisoner. Some wonderfully executed and expertly timed action stunts make this a winner.

Also really liked LONESONE LUKE, MESSENGER. So much fast action and gags going on.Going up and down the chimney into other rooms gag was excellent. Really was a pleasure seeing such a rare comedy other than the usual LUKE'S MOVIE MUDDLE. Hope more Lonesome Lukes will be available to see some day.

The one performer that shines through was Bud Jamison. seeing him in these comedies getting a lot of screen time and engaging in much of the physical mayhem was a real treat.

All in all a marvelous collection of rare short comedies finally for all to watch.

[missdupont]

While I enjoyed the shorts, the music was so repetitious that it took me out of them. They basically recycled the same piece of music over and over and over. Instead of adding any nuance, it became strictly one note, hyper and too cutesy.

[Gene Zonarich]

And Bebe Daniels was so darn cute in these early films. It was a treat to see her as well. Kind of surprised that more mention was not made of her.

So am I, as SHE was the main reason I watched them! In the earliest, her parts were disappointing...hardly more than a shot of some wild-eyed expression, then the camera cut away. By 1919, her roles were expanding--esp. noticeable in Samy in Siberia, which also had the best soundtrack--a merciful relief from the relentless din of the others. Can't understand, considering that she & Harold were good friends, went nightclubbing together, etc., why he relegated her to 3rd billing.

Although I'd planned on watching these early Lloyd shorts that I'd never seen, I was primarily interested in seeing Bebe Daniels as his first female co-star, although as entredeuxguerres notes, I was a little surprised she was billed 3rd. While I dvr'd the broadcast, I found this interesting article from Photoplay, Nov 1922:

http://www.archive.org/stream/photoplay ... 6/mode/2up" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Of course by 1922, Daniels had become a major star, but I also noticed that she received a lot of magazine coverage in 1917-19, during her time with Lloyd. I thoroughly enjoyed the entire program, but as others have noted, the music became repetitious and tiresome, especially during the second set of 6 or 7 shorts.

I became curious about the type of music that would have been used to accompany these shorts at the time of their original release. I know that The Moving Picture World had a regular section on recommended music for specific films, but I don't recall seeing anything published pertaining to appropriate music for films other than dramatic feature films, particularly comedy shorts. I'll await one of our experts in comedy shorts and silent film music to weigh in with their opinion(s).

[entredeuxguerres]

Page 95, the essence of the above piece:

http://www.archive.org/stream/photoplay ... 9/mode/1up" target="_blank" target="_blank

Not much evidence beyond hearsay, but consistent with everything else I've read about her.

[missdupont]

Another person not impressed with the music synced to the shorts:
http://ladailymirror.com/2013/05/28/a-n ... more-11968" target="_blank

[Little Caesar]

I found that the music on its own terms was fine. As accompaniment to the Lloyd shorts, the music is far from ideal. However, I can't say that it impeded my enjoyment of the films. In my opinion, the music did as well any needle drop score would do. At least it was better than a score by Maria Newman! As much as I would have liked to have heard fresh orchestral tracks from Robert Israel or nice organ/Miditzer/piano scores, perhaps that couldn't be accomodated with whatever budget the Harold Lloyd trust allocated for this project.

[NotSoSilent]

I was not a fan of the scores, but the speed/pace of the films certainly helped (as did the volume control on my remote). I consider myself very lucky that I had a chance to see these early Lloyd films and enjoyed every minute watching them. I'm not sure what went into the restorations, but they sure looked great!

[Gloria Rampage]

Oh yes, the films looked fantastic.

[Gloria Rampage]

Little Caesar »
As much as I would have liked to have heard fresh orchestral tracks from Robert Israel or nice organ/Miditzer/piano scores, perhaps that couldn't be accomodated with whatever budget the Harold Lloyd trust allocated for this project.

Harold Lloyd would never allow piano scores for his films, he always insisted on full orchestra or Gaylord Carter organ scores. Suzanne is following her grandfathers strict intructions.

[entredeuxguerres]

Another person not impressed with the music synced to the shorts:
http://ladailymirror.com/2013/05/28/a-n ... more-11968" target="_blank" target="_blank

Have no idea who Mr. "Imharnish" might be...except that he's obviously a gent who tells it like it is:

"I realize these early Lloyd movies aren’t subtle films, but I would rather watch them without any sound rather than listen to what has been done to them. It’s an insult to these movies to accompany them with this garbage."

[missdupont]

Well, those scores weren't full orchestra, and they weren't organ.

[Little Caesar]

Little Caesar »
As much as I would have liked to have heard fresh orchestral tracks from Robert Israel or nice organ/Miditzer/piano scores, perhaps that couldn't be accomodated with whatever budget the Harold Lloyd trust allocated for this project.

Harold Lloyd would never allow piano scores for his films, he always insisted on full orchestra or Gaylord Carter organ scores. Suzanne is following her grandfathers strict intructions.

You're definitely right. I remember reading an interview where Lloyd explicitly stated that he hated piano scores. However, he also stated that the public never saw his pictures with piano scores back in the 1920s which I think would be an incorrect statement. Perhaps Lloyd was thinking of the first-run houses when he made that statement. In any case, a few of the non-Trust Lloyd dvds (like those released in Kino's Slapstick Symposium series) use piano scores, and I can't say that the films suffer. As a Gaylord Carter fan, I'm glad that Lloyd took the opportunity to have Carter record some of his scores, and I hope that more of them will see the light of day with these Criterion releases. One of the main reasons why I have the Safety Last blu-ray on pre-order is that I want to hear Gaylord's score for the film.

[Rodney]

Yes, especially in the days of the shorts Harold Lloyd would have had no control over how his pictures were shown. He could probably choose the musicians for his "sneak previews," and for his premieres when he was a major star -- but in general release, the theaters would have stuck with their system, whatever that was.