House of Wax/Mystery of the Wax Museum Blu-ray Specs

[Brianruns10]

Hey all,

Just noticed the specs posted for the new 3D bluray of "House of Wax."

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=11327

One of the special features is "The Mystery of the Wax Museum." This is the key feature for me...I think it's better than the remake.

But do you suppose we'll get a new transfer, with the CORRECT color timing? Dare we hope for an HD presentation?

Anyone in the know know if we'll indeed be getting a new transfer?

[didi-5]

It was an extra on the DVD of House of Wax so it might well be exactly the same source rather than a new transfer. But it's a film which would benefit from a bit of attention.

[Danny Burk]

If they handle it the same as other "extras" recently, such as the silent BEN-HUR, it will be the same transfer (in std def) as was previously released on DVD. I wish it would be a corrected version in HD, but I'd strongly doubt it unless the actual specs tell us otherwise. I suspect that the release notice would make mention of a revised version, if it were present.

[Brianruns10]

If they do use the old transfer, that will be a shame, and a real black eye on Warners, in my opinion. In the case of Ben Hur, there was a reasonable explanation (if I remember correctly), which was that the restoration, comprising several print sources, was only available in SD, and an HD transfer was not possible). And, the transfer is very nice, very well done.

This is not the case with Mystery of the Wax Museum, which is utterly botched, and borderline unwatchable. It is a defective product, as far as I'm concerned, and even if they don't offer a new transfer, if they don't at least have a proper color timing, this will be a deal breaker for me.

[David Alp]

This is not the case with Mystery of the Wax Museum, which is utterly botched, and borderline unwatchable. It is a defective product, as far as I'm concerned, and even if they don't offer a new transfer, if they don't at least have a proper color timing, this will be a deal breaker for me.

Very interesting comments there... What makes it "utterly botched"? I have it on DVD and want to know what to look out for next time I view it. I do understand that with 2-Strip Technicolor movies there was a tendency in the 1980's and 90's to "boost" the color, and to even add blue when blue was not available on 2-strip. We only have to look at the "Rhapsody In Blue" number for Paul Whiteman's "King Of Jazz" (1930) to see that on the VHS 1983 release they have turned the green into blue! This really annoys me!

[Brianruns10]

they did exactly the same thing to Wax Museum as King of Jazz. Some git who didn't know anything about two-color technicolor took it upon himself to "correct" and "normalize" the color, to inject blue where there was none, and what results looks washed out, pale, almost colorized, when it should be quite rich and vivid, even if the color palette is limited.

If you want to see how it SHOULD look, check out Doctor X on the Warner's horror boxset that came out a few years back. They did a new transfer for that one, and did it really, really well.

[Christopher Jacobs]

they did exactly the same thing to Wax Museum as King of Jazz. Some git who didn't know anything about two-color technicolor took it upon himself to "correct" and "normalize" the color, to inject blue where there was none, and what results looks washed out, pale, almost colorized, when it should be quite rich and vivid, even if the color palette is limited.

If you want to see how it SHOULD look, check out Doctor X on the Warner's horror boxset that came out a few years back. They did a new transfer for that one, and did it really, really well.

If you can, check also the laserdisc version of MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM, which has the color looking like it is supposed to look. The DVD is all red and blue, whereas the laserdisc is orangish and greenish, with much more natural fleshtones. It is possible on some monitors to adjust the color so the DVD looks correct, but it should have been mastered to look correct without customer intervention.

[silentmovies742]

If they do use the old transfer, that will be a shame, and a real black eye on Warners, in my opinion. In the case of Ben Hur, there was a reasonable explanation (if I remember correctly), which was that the restoration, comprising several print sources, was only available in SD, and an HD transfer was not possible). And, the transfer is very nice, very well done.

This is not the case with Mystery of the Wax Museum, which is utterly botched, and borderline unwatchable. It is a defective product, as far as I'm concerned, and even if they don't offer a new transfer, if they don't at least have a proper color timing, this will be a deal breaker for me.

I think to call it utterly botched is pushing it somewhat. It's perfectly watchable and certainly not borderline unwatchable - that might apply to a shovel-load of Alpha video releases where faces are nothing more than white blobs, but not to Mystery of the Wax Museum which, although seemingly not restored, is perfectly decent for a 1933. I admit that a restoration would be very nice indeed, and the film certainly deserves it, but there is presumably good reason why this hasn't been done thus far.

[LeRoyShield1930]

I, too, was very disappointed when the HOUSE OF WAX/MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM DVD came out about 10 years ago. The color was all off for Mystery. I kept my MGM/UA Laser Disc because the color on that was truer to 2 strip technicolor. Then I was excited when I saw that Warner Home Video had a limited promotional single DVD of Mystery when the Paris Hilton remake of House of Wax came out, but it was the same transfer form the H.O.W. DVD.

Warner Archive botched up their DVD release of SWEETHEARTS (1938). The MGM/UA laser disc had BEAUTIFUL color, but the Warner Archive version used a brownish, muddied print that was such a disappointment. Another laser disc that became a keeper.

Let's hope Warner Home Video hears us.

[Marr&Colton]

Good call on SWEETHEARTS. I expected the same gorgeous print quality I saw on revival house theatre screens in the 1980s, but what was released is a grainy, soft-focus transfer that instead of clarity, looks like it was mastered from 16mm.

[Brianruns10]

I stand by my opinion that it WAS a botched transfer. I mean, watcheable, what does that mean? Colorized films are watcheable. They're ugly as sin, but they're watcheable. Cropped films are watcheable, but they can be damn near incoherent.

We're not talking about the frame area being cropped by a few percentage points. Or slight or significant contrast boosting, or edge enhancement or even DNR, which all can be useful tools, tools that unfortunately can be too liberally employed, though at least the effort is well meaning and tolerable.

The transfer for MOTWM goes beyond that. It is 1) a product of ignorance, in that whoever did the color timing demonstrated no understanding of just what a two-color technicolor film was supposed to look like 2) a product that is an insult to our intelligence, because rather than present the image as it should be, as we would accept, they tried to "normalize it," as if those folks buying the film would otherwise scratch their heads and ask, "Where's the blue???" It was the sort of transfer suited for the type of buyer who routinely complains about those pesky black bars on the top and bottom of the screen; it was not made for *us* which is perplexing, because who ELSE is gonna buy an 80 year old horror film? 3) the color retiming is BAAAD, because the film now looks murky and washed out, and barely better than a colorized film.

It is not merely a botched effort. I would go so far as to call the DVD transfer of MOTWM a defective transfer quite honestly.

[silentmovies742]

I stand by my opinion that it WAS a botched transfer. I mean, watcheable, what does that mean? Colorized films are watcheable. They're ugly as sin, but they're watcheable. Cropped films are watcheable, but they can be damn near incoherent.

We're not talking about the frame area being cropped by a few percentage points. Or slight or significant contrast boosting, or edge enhancement or even DNR, which all can be useful tools, tools that unfortunately can be too liberally employed, though at least the effort is well meaning and tolerable.

The transfer for MOTWM goes beyond that. It is 1) a product of ignorance, in that whoever did the color timing demonstrated no understanding of just what a two-color technicolor film was supposed to look like 2) a product that is an insult to our intelligence, because rather than present the image as it should be, as we would accept, they tried to "normalize it," as if those folks buying the film would otherwise scratch their heads and ask, "Where's the blue???" It was the sort of transfer suited for the type of buyer who routinely complains about those pesky black bars on the top and bottom of the screen; it was not made for *us* which is perplexing, because who ELSE is gonna buy an 80 year old horror film? 3) the color retiming is BAAAD, because the film now looks murky and washed out, and barely better than a colorized film.

It is not merely a botched effort. I would go so far as to call the DVD transfer of MOTWM a defective transfer quite honestly.

In answer to your second point, the DVD was not sold as Mystery of the Wax Museum, it was sold as the 1953 House of Wax, with the 1933 film being a bonus - so no-one was buying an 80 year old horror film, they were buying a fifty year old one. Therefore there was never an assumption that it would be bought because of the older film. In fact, the region 2 release mentions nowhere on the packaging that the older film is even included, other than an easily missed line of credits. There is certainly no "bonus feature" blurb. So most people outside America wouldn't even have know the film was on the disc when they bought it.

We tend to forget that a bonus feature is just that - a bonus. The DVD was not advertised anywhere as a double bill (in which case there is a right to complain as the films would have equal weight on the DVD), but as House of Wax with the earlier film thrown in as a freebee.

It's also worth saying the print of the 1933 film is seemingly the same as that included on a much earlier DVD release from 2001 which was a brief region 2 release as a double bill with Island of Lost Souls. Surely the fact that a remastered or restored MOTWM has yet to appear would suggest that there are issues with locating better sources, or simply that it is in a queue and will be got around to eventually. The new release is being sold purely on the 1953 film, and so one should assume once again that the 1933 version is simply a freebee in whatever quality is currently available.

[silentmovies742]

I, too, was very disappointed when the HOUSE OF WAX/MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM DVD came out about 10 years ago. ....

Once again, it was not a double bill. It was the 1953 film with a free film thrown in for good measure. It seems somewhat odd complaining about something you are getting for nothing.

[Scoundrel]

" It's also worth saying the print of the 1933 film is seemingly the same as that included on a much earlier DVD release from 2001 which was a brief region 2 release as a double bill with Island of Lost Souls.."

Where did you get this information from..?

The print on the Visionary UK R2 release was faded with the color scheme
more pink than red. It was also a very worn print with scratches and splices .
The only thing that was significant about this release was that the soundtrack
was not nearly as compressed as the WB DVD.

MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM deserves a proper restoration with it's color
scheme rendered accurately. It will be a damn shame if it's treated as just an
SD afterthought "freebie".

[WaverBoy]

MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM deserves a proper restoration with it's color
scheme rendered accurately. It will be a damn shame if it's treated as just an
SD afterthought "freebie".

Agreed 100%. This film is an absolute classic, and superior to its remake IMO. It desperately needs to be restored to its two-color Technicolor glory. It doesn't belong in SD as an unrestored color-botched extra on a Blu-ray of HOUSE OF WAX; it belongs in HD as a properly restored and colored, full-fledged half of a double-feature Blu-ray with its sister two-color Technicolor horror classic, DOCTOR X, also properly restored and colored. I'd love me a double dose of HD Technicolor Wray and Atwill action, and would pay good money for it.

[Scoundrel]

DITTO ...!!!!

[coolcatdaddy]

I've not seen any info on whether the bonus of "Wax Museum" is the same transfer as the dvd release or if it will be in HD.

But, I will say that Warners would have an opportunity here to create a new HD master for "Mystery of the Wax Museum" that corrects the earlier release and, if they did, it would be another selling point for the 3D "House of Wax" set and give them a solid broadcast and streaming master for future use.

"House of Wax" is a hallmark of the 1950s 3d years as much as "Mystery of the Wax Museum" is a highlight of 2 strip Technicolor - taken together, both films are interesting artifacts of the "state of the art" of movies in different eras.

Sure, most buyers will be wanting "House of Wax" based on nostalgia for the 50s original release or the 80s 3d-craze reissue, but, with just a bit more work on "Wax Museum", they could really get another part of the potential buying audience really interested in the set.

I'll be thankful if they just get "House of Wax" in 3d right - that one has been needing a release in its original 3d format to really be appreciated.

[antoniod]

Does good material even exist for WAX MUSEUM? Everson wrote that the UA "Restoration" was a botch. Just what versions exist on film?

[sethb]

My understanding, based on some side comments made by Ron Haver in his book about A STAR IS BORN and its subsequent restoration, is that an original 35mm nitrate two-color print of WAX MUSEUM surfaced in the 1970's. If that's correct, I would guess that it was this print which was the source for the DVD.
But relying on somebody else's secondhand knowledge can be dangerous, and there may be better first-hand info. SETH

[Scoundrel]

Jack Theakston had reported on the discovery of a unique Dutch nitrate print :

" I'm not at liberty to talk about the circumstances surrounding the discovery of it (other than I found it at a job I was contracted for), but the print in question is now at UCLA and is accessible to WB at any time. The one problem—it's got Dutch subtitles! Done in a very interesting way, too... printed in as part of the B&W record with the soundtrack and frame lines, and the color matrices blocked "around" the text..."


From a post on The Classic Horror Film Board.

http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuk ... e7Zq392OVo" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Mr.Mycroft]

Seems that the 'Wax Museum' bonus on the 'House of Wax' blu ray is in 480i. Not even a progressive transfer. Sheesh.

[Christopher Jacobs]

Seems that the 'Wax Museum' bonus on the 'House of Wax' blu ray is in 480i. Not even a progressive transfer. Sheesh.

That's not really a big surprise, but it's still a huge disappointment. Much as I'm looking forward to getting a full-HD transfer of HOUSE OF WAX in 3-D, I still prefer MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM and would like to see it looking at least as good as the nice 16mm color print I saw in college. Maybe they'll consider doing a double-feature Blu-ray of that with DOCTOR X someday. Better yet, maybe they'll start sublicensing back catalog titles to places like Olive, Shout Factory, and Twilight Time, and let a few more go to Criterion than they have so far.

[jheez]

Yeah, not the greatest news for Mystery of the Wax Museum:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film4/blu-ray_ ... lu-ray.htm

[Scoundrel]

" That's not really a big surprise, but it's still a huge disappointment..."

I'd call it a kick in the teeth.

The silence that Warner's had regarding this title on BD speaks volumes.

" Maybe they'll consider doing a double-feature Blu-ray of that with DOCTOR X someday. Better yet, maybe they'll start sublicensing back catalog titles to places like Olive, Shout Factory, and Twilight Time, and let a few more go to Criterion than they have so far..."

Why, bother..? We have another version of THE WIZARD OF OZ we know you'll love...!!!!

[Jack Theakston]

WB's restoration department has plans to revisit MYSTERY—there are several original prints "out there." Keep in mind, the restoration department and the home video department are two separate entities.

[Scoundrel]

" WB's restoration department has plans to revisit MYSTERY—there are several original prints "out there." "

Then why issue a poor representation of the film on BD to begin with...?

[Jack Theakston]

Because the emphasis was a HOUSE OF WAX release, and they spent most of the budget (deservedly so) on making the main attraction look as good as possible. MYSTERY was just a port from the old DVD as a special feature, not the main attraction by the home video department.

[DShepFilm]

I acquired an original Technicolor print of MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM for the AFI/LoC collection in the early 1970s. It was a perfect print, from Jack L. Warner's personal collection. (At that time, Mr. Warner was being very friendly, and a major donor to AFI who paid for the construction of AFI's small theatre in the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts).

An Eastmancolor negative was step-printed from this nitrate by Don Malkames, then developed, graded and printed at Guffanti Film Labs (great skill all around, both entities long gone). We brought the answer print from the new negative to a theatre where we put it up on one projector, the original nitrate print on the other projector, ran them simultaneously, and kept switching back and forth. You couldn't tell the difference between the original and the copy, it was that good.

David Shepard

[silentmovies742]

" That's not really a big surprise, but it's still a huge disappointment..."

I'd call it a kick in the teeth.

The silence that Warner's had regarding this title on BD speaks volumes.

" Maybe they'll consider doing a double-feature Blu-ray of that with DOCTOR X someday. Better yet, maybe they'll start sublicensing back catalog titles to places like Olive, Shout Factory, and Twilight Time, and let a few more go to Criterion than they have so far..."

Why, bother..? We have another version of THE WIZARD OF OZ we know you'll love...!!!!

It would only be a kick in the teeth if this was being offered as a double bill. It is not. It is being offered as a bonus feature. In other words, something they didn't need to include but did anyway. I'm not quite sure how people don't understand the word "bonus". Yes, it would be great to have had a new version of the film, but no-one could or should expect that when it is simply an extra feature on a disc.

[All Darc]

if I remamber well, many 3D flms uses a single 35mm frame to place the stereo image, splitting and compressing each image Left/right on a single 35mm frame.

That creates some softness and a reduction of horizontal resolution in 50%.


Indeed that approuch was time saver since before that the 3D shouting involves use two câmeras and many more work and technical dificulties.